2016 Election

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I thought you might re-think.
I was wrong.
Carry on, try not to get carried away..

I have an issue with someone who calls the followers of a candidate "demented"--but that fellow could care less about calling people names, so I ignore the petty stuff most of the time. Instead of exploring why people--a lot of decent and good people--are following Trump, Carson and, to a lesser extent, Sanders--some think it easier to just call them names.

Quote: RonC

I have an issue with someone who calls the followers of a candidate "demented"--but that fellow could care less about calling people names, so I ignore the petty stuff most of the time. Instead of exploring why people--a lot of decent and good people--are following Trump, Carson and, to a lesser extent, Sanders--some think it easier to just call them names.

Racists on the right, communists on the left
No side has a monopoly on demented followers
on the flip side
All campaigns deal with protestors
It is disturbing what I have seen at Trump rallys regarding protestors that I have not seen at other candidates rallys on how they handle protesters.
So Trumps may be a bit more demented but certainly does not have the monopoly.

Quote: terapined

Racists on the right, communists on the left

Here I am,
Stuck in my plan for a coup.

Quote: Face

Here I am,
Stuck in my plan for a coup.

Is there some specific place I can sign up to support your coup? Don't answer that question online.
Send by carrier pigeon....

Quote: terapined

Racists on the right, communists on the left.

Quote: RonC

Instead of exploring why people--a lot of decent and good people--are following Trump, Carson and, to a lesser extent, Sanders--some think it easier to just call them names.

Thank you Ron C. I too am interested in why people are supporting someone rather than just throwing labels at them.

I myself am supporting Donald Trump. I changed my party registration, so that I could do that. Up until several months ago, I was registered Democrat, but always considered myself an independent. But Social issues, particularly gay marriage has been a dominated factor in my vote for the last decade (most of my adult life). This year for the first time, I thought that issue had been put to rest and I could vote based on other issues that were important to me. However it seems at least some in the republican party want to continue to beat that dead horse. Marco Rubio on Meet the Press this past Sunday, said he would do whatever he could to overturn the supreme court ruling. Other candidates like Huckebee have also remained focused on this issue. Hopefully it is just rhetoric playing to the far right base. When the general election approaches next year, I hope that it doesn't look like the republicans want to continue to fight that battle (and force me to back the democrats), when there are so many more important issues at this time.

Here is why, I am supporting Trump in the primaries: One word.....Immigration. I don't particularly think Trump would be a good president. I think he may be mentally unbalanced, but then again, maybe we all are. I know he can't do most of the things he says he will do and that's ok. I am not in favor of deporting 12 million people and breaking up families. But we have to build a wall and stop illegal immigration.

I live in Las Vegas. The census says 32% percent of our population is Latino. It feel like and I suspect it is much more than that, closer to 50%. I just don't think the US can continue to absorb these numbers of "illegal immigrants". We don't have enough employment for the people we have and it is a drain on our school and welfare systems, police, fire and hospitals. If that makes me a "racist"....so be it.

I have put a lot of thought into my position, because America has always accepted people seeking a new life. Most of our families came from somewhere, at some point in time (mine from Ireland) seeking a better life. I don't want to deny that to anyone else seeking a better life for their families and children, but it has to be done legally. I don't want the people that are coming illegally (and that we can't afford to absorb) to be rewarded.

As I said, I don't want to punish people here, by breaking up families, but we have to stop the flow of illegals that we can no longer handle. The republicans talk a good game about this every election, but they too have failed to actually do anything. I think Trump might just do something about it. Maybe not...I don't know. But I am going to reward him with my vote in the primaries to send a message that we need to do something about "illegal" immigration. In the general election, I will re-evaluate my vote based on who is running and party positions that are important to me.

From the economist Feb 7th 2014

Quote:

The greatest mass deportation in American history

AS A presidential candidate in 2008, Barack Obama promised to enact immigration reform during his first year in office. Although his party controlled both arms of Congress for the next two years, he barely tried. Instead, he has presided over the greatest mass deportation in American history. As our chart shows, he has tossed far more Mexicans and other illegal immigrants out of the country than his predecessors—nearly 2m so far. Spending on border security is now greater than on all other types of federal criminal-law enforcement combined. Since migrants bring youth, energy and enterprise, this is an expensive way of making America less dynamic (as our leader this week explains). And the human costs are immense (read our story here). Families are torn apart; lives ruined. Yet many House Republicans still insist that they will not back immigration reform because they cannot trust President Obama to defend the border.

Confusing times...

My 45-ish, single, gay, lifetime Liberal Democrat Brother-in-law was over last night. During the election cycle of 2008, he and his then-partner spent many evenings placing signs and doing other things to support Obama and they were very happy when he became President.

Fast forward two cycles and he has told me that he cannot vote for any Democrat currently running for President. No, that he WILL not. None of them appeals to him and he feels that Hillary has done harm to the country as Secretary of State. He is no longer even an Obama supporter, but he isn't a detractor either...he is ambivalent.

He tells me he favors Trump and, to a lesser extent, Rubio. We talked about the various candidates and he is more of a supporter of particular candidates in the field than I am. I don't have a clear favorite; I just want the Republicans to win the election. We talk about my lack of support for Trump and his feelings about why he can support him. This is a very interesting turn of the tables...

I can't support Trump at this point because he has not yet shown a desire to work with the Democrats in any way. I know that isn't a big part of any party's platform, but I need an indication that SOME compromise is acceptable and even desirable. How can I consistently talk about how President Obama's idea of compromise is basically "this is my idea, and if you agree to do it my way, we have a deal" and then support anyone who has not shown that he could compromise?

Chances are that neither party will have full control of the government for any more than two years of the next four or eight years. Smart compromise is essential to the process. Don't give away the farm, but make life better for Americans.

Anyway, my position is that Trump needs to show a possibility of working with the other party and he also needs to help us understand who would help him lead the country. Yes, that is a bit higher standard than the other candidates...but the other candidates aren't talking about making Mexico build a wall or registering Muslims...

I did not sway my BIL one bit. He's one of those "demented" Trump followers now. I guess he was a "demented" Obama follower last time...

Quote: RonC

I did not sway my BIL one bit. He's one of those "demented" Trump followers now.

He was one of the ones shouting racist things at a Trump rally?

That's unfortunate.

This was what you said originally:

Quote: ams288

IMO, Trump hasn't done very well in these last couple of debates. But he always claims victory as soon as they are over and his demented followers lap it up.

Several people gave you the opportunity to back away from a general statement about demented followers or to explain it a little bit, you did neither.

Quote: ams288

He was one of the ones shouting racist things at a Trump rally?

That's unfortunate.

Of course not. Like usual, you want to find the farthest out fringe and project it on more people than are really that far out. Well, only when it is on the other side...you say very little about anyone that is Liberal/Progressive.

Quote: RonC

Several people gave you the opportunity to back away from a general statement about demented followers or to explain it a little bit, you did neither. .

Hmm... In this current fit of faux outrage, you noticeably ignored this post of mine:

Quote: ams288

Demented is the correct word.

I haven't seen any of Bernie Sanders's followers shouting out to set a black protester on fire at his rallies. I haven't seen any of Hillary's followers yell "Seig Heil!" at her rallies. But I have seen Trump's racist followers do so.

Demented.

You're hanging out at both Bernie's and Hillary's rallies?
I'm worried about you....;-)

<edit> winky smiley thingy added after the fact

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

You're hanging out at both Bernie's and Hillary's rallies?
I'm worried about you....;-)

<edit> winky smiley thingy added after the fact

Nope.

But if there were deranged people shouting awful racist things at their rallies, I'm sure it would be plastered over FOX News for days on end.

Quote: ams288

Nope.

But if there were deranged people shouting awful racist things at their rallies, I'm sure it would be plastered over FOX News for days on end.

...and Trump is responsible for someone who is "demented" liking him?

That is kind of like saying Jodie Foster is responsible for Hinckley shooting a President...

Quote: RonC

...and Trump is responsible for someone who is "demented" liking him?

That is kind of like saying Jodie Foster is responsible for Hinckley shooting a President...

When you run on a platform of racism, facism, and Islamophobia - you can't be surprised when demented racists and hate groups start following....

Quote: RonC

...and Trump is responsible for someone who is "demented" liking him?

The problem is how Trump supporters handle protestors
There are protestors at just about any campaign rally
Obama dealt with this all the time on multiple stops
Just about every campaign deals with protestors
The proper way to handle this problem is to have security escort any loud protestor out of the area
Its a very mature peaceful process as it should be
On the other hand, Trump supports don't have the maturity to let security handle these situations time and time again
They are angry and take matters into their own hands and Trump does nothing to deter this.

I have to read that again, I got lost somewhere.
Not that unusual (I got lost ), but this might be a special case.

Funny how these Liberals act.

Trump has some wierdos that are intent on extending his "platform" in ways that every reasonable person understands is not what he wants to do and some others who don't play nicely with people who say bad things to people who disrupt his rallies and it is just a horrible thing.

Our President does things to incite additional racial strife in situations where there is already enough of it (and where racism on the part of the participants is not yet a settled issue) and they have nothing to say.

They accuse everyone else of wanting it both ways, yet they want it both ways just as much as the next guy.

The even call someone gay and continue doing it in spite of the fact that the person is not "out" (and without proof) and think that is just fine.

Quote: RonC

The even call someone gay and continue doing it in spite of the fact that the person is not "out" (and without proof) and think that is just fine.

?????????
Southpark and Tom Cruise?
Its called humor.

Quote: rxwine

From the economist Feb 7th 2014

That chart incorporates more than a few fallacies. Not the least of which is the complete ignoring of the totality of illegal immigration.

As one ensuing comment made clear:
“The amount of annual deportations under George W. Bush grew up by almost 100% from 2001 to 2008. The trend might have continued. Under Obama, despite the nominal numbers being as high as never before, the amount of deportations annually have stabilized and even dipped in 2013 despite the growth of immigrant population.”

Another is that it conflates turnarounds at the border for the Obama numbers but not the others:

“In FY2013, out of more than 12 million illegal immigrants in our country, and 368,644 alleged deportations/removals, only 133,551 illegals were deported/removed from the interior of our country; 110,115 of those were previously convicted criminals. The other 235,093, so-called deportations/removals, were border turnarounds.”

At any rate, the overall problems being created here remain:

“According to a 2009 report by the Pew Hispanic Center, in 2007 Latinos "accounted for 40% of all sentenced federal offenders-more than triple their share (13%) of the total U.S. adult population".
This was an increase from 24% in 1991.
72% of the Latino offenders were not U.S. citizens.
-- Rising Share: Hispanics and Federal Crime. Pew Hispanic Center. 2009. Mark Hugo Lopez”

Quote: ams288

Hmm... In this current fit of faux outrage, you noticeably ignored this post of mine:

Gee, where have we seen that numerous times before?

Quote: RonC

The even call someone gay and continue doing it in spite of the fact that the person is not "out" (and without proof) and think that is just fine.

Matt Drudge is gay.

Gay, gay, gay!

When Out Magazine issues a retraction for putting him on their 100 power-gays list (or whatever, can't remember what the exact title of the list was), I'll apologize for calling him gay.

Nothing wrong with being born gay. It's just a shame some people have to hide it.

Quote: ams288

Matt Drudge is gay.

Gay, gay, gay!

When Out Magazine issues a retraction for putting him on their 100 power-gays list (or whatever, can't remember what the exact title of the list was), I'll apologize for calling him gay.

Nothing wrong with being born gay. It's just a shame some people have to hide it.

Deleted

Deleted for 2fATL

Deleted

Deleted
All that remains:
I opened my big mouth, again.
AMS quoted me, and then deleted the quote upon my request.
I thank, did thank, and continue to thank AMS for being so co-operative.

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Pretty please?

I'll make you a deal.
You delete your quote of my obviously misguided post and I will not post again for seven days.
You say?
Seven days is a long time when you are looking the Grim Reaper in the face, trust me on this..

Deleted. You don't have to go into self exile. I didn't even think it was that bad of a post.... lol

Quote: ams288

Matt Drudge is gay.

Gay, gay, gay!

When Out Magazine issues a retraction for putting him on their 100 power-gays list (or whatever, can't remember what the exact title of the list was), I'll apologize for calling him gay.

Nothing wrong with being born gay. It's just a shame some people have to hide it.

It's a shame that people choose to hide it. For the most part, they don't have to, though some may feel that they do. Some may not have a choice.

I shouldn't bother writing about it or about the "faux" thing. You say some of it is humor. Okay. I'd really rather have a discussion but that only works with some here. Do your thing. Your super!!

Quote: ams288

Matt Drudge is gay.

Gay, gay, gay!

When Out Magazine issues a retraction for putting him on their 100 power-gays list (or whatever, can't remember what the exact title of the list was), I'll apologize for calling him gay.

Nothing wrong with being born gay. It's just a shame some people have to hide it.

It's not a shame that some people choose to hide it. That is their right just as it is your right to come out and be open about it. Even in 2015 there are circumstances where one may choose to keep that part of himself private. I don't get the gay crowd that thinks it is their right or responsibility to out others. It is a deeply personal decision.

Quote: kewlj

It's not a shame that some people choose to hide it. That is their right just as it is your right to come out and be open about it. Even in 2015 there are circumstances where one may choose to keep that part of himself private. I don't get the gay crowd that thinks it is their right or responsibility to out others. It is a deeply personal decision.

In this case I have to agree with Kewlj and RonC.
This is really a private matter.
Whatever somebody's sexual orientation is, its really nobody's business

Not so sure the conclusion is right. Obviously no one can reveal your sexual preference if you've never revealed it to anyone.

But if you have, not sure they have to keep it secret. Not legally anyway.

They can't lie without risk, but if it's the truth, there's not much risk.

I could be wrong.

Quote: rxwine

Not so sure the conclusion is right. Obviously no one can reveal your sexual preference if you've never revealed it to anyone.

But if you have, not sure they have to keep it secret. Not legally anyway.

They can't lie without risk, but if it's the truth, there's not much risk.

I could be wrong.

I don't know how it plays out "legally" in a court, but in my mind it is unacceptable to libel someone by calling them something they either aren't or have chosen not to reveal...unless, of course, you have proof.

Does the fact that he is a public figure make a difference?

There have been numerous times gay public figures have been "outed" by various publications, and I don't remember any lawsuits.

Maybe they could sue if it was a lie and actually libel, but it's not.

Quote: ams288

Does the fact that he is a public figure make a difference?

There have been numerous times gay public figures have been "outed" by various publications, and I don't remember any lawsuits.

Maybe they could sue if it was a lie and actually libel, but it's not.

It doesn't matter if it is legal, or not......it is WRONG! There are people that it can effect their careers, and life and family relations. perhaps they live in a strict religious upbringing, or a very conservative community or come from a very religious family that would cause them to be outcast by their family.

The same very negative experiences that some teens and young people go through coming out on their own, being outcast and bullied such, that the gay community is sensitive to, you want to FORCE on someone else. Suppose the person is in no way prepared for the consequences and he/she is shunned by family friends, community, loses job and eventually commits suicide? We see this final outcome inflicted on our youth in the gay community, so it is beyond me, how anyone in the community thinks it is their right to inflict this on others.

Quote: kewlj

It doesn't matter if it is legal, or not......it is WRONG! There are people that it can effect their careers, and life and family relations. perhaps they live in a strict religious upbringing, or a very conservative community or come from a very religious family that would cause them to be outcast by their family.

The same very negative experiences that some teens and young people go through coming out on their own, being outcast and bullied such, that the gay community is sensitive to, you want to FORCE on someone else. Suppose the person is in no way prepared for the consequences and he/she is shunned by family friends, community, loses job and eventually commits suicide? We see this final outcome inflicted on our youth in the gay community, so it is beyond me, how anyone in the community thinks it is their right to inflict this on others.

In 99% of cases I agree with you.

In the case of Matt Drudge, he can handle it.

Quote: ams288

In the case of Matt Drudge, he can handle it.

That really is not your call to make. Might I remind you two wrongs do not make a right. :/

Quote: kewlj

That really is not your call to make. Might I remind you two wrongs do not make a right. :/

Lol @ all this outrage. You guys are acting like I outed him.

He has handled it. It has been years since Out Magazine put him on their 100 powerful gays in the media list.

Till they retract, I stand firm.

Quote: ams288

Lol @ all this outrage. You guys are acting like I outed him.

He has handled it. It has been years since Out Magazine put him on their 100 powerful gays in the media list.

Till they retract, I stand firm.

No, I realize you did not out him. But you seem to be taking the position, that many do in the community that it is acceptable and that is wrong.

Coming out is a very private and personal decision. And it often has consequences. I became homeless on my 18th birthday and lived in a homeless shelter for 3 months while I finished high school, for no other reason than because I was gay and out.

Our community sees first hand, often up close the devastation that coming out can have on people, so we, more than anyone should realize the importance of the right of the individual involved to make or not make the decision to do so. I personally am not only outraged when someone is outed, but just as outraged when those in the community believe it is acceptable.

Quote: kewlj

No, I realize you did not out him. But you seem to be taking the position, that many do in the community that it is acceptable and that is wrong.

Coming out is a very private and personal decision. And it often has consequences. I became homeless on my 18th birthday and lived in a homeless shelter for 3 months while I finished high school, for no other reason than because I was gay and out.

Our community sees first hand, often up close the devastation that coming out can have on people, so we, more than anyone should realize the importance of the right of the individual involved to make or not make the decision to do so. I personally am not only outraged when someone is outed, but just as outraged when those in the community believe it is acceptable.

There is a big difference between an 18 year old being outed and thrown out on the street and an uber rich self-employed media guy like Drudge being outed.

We will have to agree to disagree. I have no sympathy for Drudge.

Quote: ams288

Demented is the correct word.

I haven't seen any of Bernie Sanders's followers shouting out to set a black protester on fire at his rallies. I haven't seen any of Hillary's followers yell "Seig Heil!" at her rallies. But I have seen Trump's racist followers do so.

Demented.

I agree, I also haven't seen any of Sanders supporters with a job either, but like you, I could be wrong. It's so easy to lump all Bernies supporters as lazy bums looking for a handout, just like it is for some to say all trump supporters are white racists.

Quote: ams288

There is a big difference between an 18 year old being outed and thrown out on the street and an uber rich self-employed media guy like Drudge being outed.

There really isn't. Wrong is wrong. On THAT we will have to disagree.

Quote: Boz

I agree, I also haven't seen any of Sanders supporters with a job either, but like you, I could be wrong. .

What an absurd statement.
I worked my whole life. Never taken a govt handout.
Go Bernie :-)

Quote: terapined

What an absurd statement.
I worked my whole life. Never taken a govt handout.
Go Bernie :-)

And im a Trump supporter but not a racist, so the point is?

And it looks like your boys campaign took a shortcut. Now that sounds like most of his supporters.

Quote: Boz

And im a Trump supporter but not a racist, so the point is?

.

My point was made pages ago but will repost below

Racists on the right, communists on the left
No side has a monopoly on demented followers
on the flip side
All campaigns deal with protestors
It is disturbing what I have seen at Trump rallys regarding protestors that I have not seen at other candidates rallys on how they handle protesters.
So Trumps may be a bit more demented but certainly does not have the monopoly.

I can live with that. Valid point.

By the way check this out to see which candidate you agree with the most

isidewith.com

The wizard here took the quiz, he sides with Bernie just as I do.
I would hardly call the Wizard a lazy bum
on the flipside, he did have a tin cup out once :-)

Quote: terapined

By the way check this out to see which candidate you agree with the most

isidewith.com

The wizard here took the quiz, he sides with Bernie just as I do.
I would hardly call the Wizard a lazy bum
on the flipside, he did have a tin cup out once :-)

Liberal biased poll. Didn't look, but seems like a good answer to use. Fits most times, lol.

Quote: Boz

Liberal biased poll. Didn't look, but seems like a good answer to use. Fits most times, lol.

poll????????????????????????????????
it asks a bunch of questions regarding your views and points you to the candidate you agree with the most
If you are conservative, I would think its a great idea to take the quiz to see which of the many conservative candidates you agree with the most.

Quote: Boz

Liberal biased poll. Didn't look, but seems like a good answer to use. Fits most times, lol.

Just look at the supposed "Other" choices. It is super clear that this is just another of what they call "push polls."

Quote: SanchoPanza

Just look at the supposed "Other" choices. It is super clear that this is just another of what they call "push polls."

Its not a poll
it determines which candidate, regardless lib or conservative, that you agree with the most

isidewith.com


Evenbob took it
"I sided with Sanders 18% and Clinton
24%. 94% with Trump and 90% with
Carson. "

AZduffman took it
"99% Trump
95% Carson
93% Ron Paul and Carly Fiorina
21% Hillary and Bernie (who basically have the same positions on everything)"

The AZ and EB posts were copied from DT

Quote: terapined

By the way check this out to see which candidate you agree with the most

isidewith.com

The wizard here took the quiz, he sides with Bernie just as I do.
I would hardly call the Wizard a lazy bum
on the flipside, he did have a tin cup out once :-)

I took it. Bernie just edged out Hillary for me. Closest Repub was Jeb. I thought I was more closely aligned with Kasich or Christie than Jeb, but there's a big gap. So that was educational.