Smoking bans

My two cents --

I can see second-hand smoke being a concern with 400 patrons in a 500 square-foot bar, but with 2000 patrons in a 100,000 square foot casino? Doesn't seem to compare.

--jim--

Oh boy! A smoking thread.

The US exports billions in tobacco products worldwide.

Asians and other tourists smoke at a much higher percentage per ca pita.

They spend money.

Casinos and Nevada want money.

Gamblers smoke more. They spend money.

Don't count on a smoking ban any time soon.

don't you just love it when some old lady with a cigarette sits down right next to you, when there are hundreds of vacant machines elsewhere? Then, she puts it down in the ash tray and lets it smolder away, and the smoke homes in on you....:-O:

In a perfect world businesses would choose whether to permit smoking according to the percentage of their client base that smoke. For example, if 30% of gamblers smoke, then 30% of casinos would allow smoking. However, given the freedom to choose, it seems just about every business chooses to permit smoking. The free market does not seem to be working in this regard. Not just casinos, but bars and restaurants too. I suspect it is out of a fear of a short-term backlash from smoking customers. Non-smokers could probably do a better job at patronizing non-smoking businesses too.

That said, let me run this idea up the flag pole and see if anybody salutes. I suggest a cap and trade system of smoking permits. Take Las Vegas casinos for example. I’m suggesting it be mandated that half of casinos go non-smoking (or any reasonable percentage). The big corporations like MGM and Harrah’s could choose their half among their properties. The small companies could bid on a limited number of smoking permits, with the proceeds going to the casinos that didn’t get a permit. After that point, the casinos could buy and sell the smoking permits with each other. There would need to be safeguards to ensure that the 50/50 ratio was maintained according to area and quality. This would be much less drastic than a total ban. There would be some short-term shuffling between players and casinos, but in the long-term I don’t see any down side.

Whadaya think? I welcome all comments.

Cap and trade? Interesting concept but I see it as unlikely. I can't really see any incentive to implement the system just as there is probably no pressing reason for a casino to go smoke-free if it's competitors do not.

I suspect that instead the nonsmoking majority will eventually demand legislation banning smoking indoors because they don't like the stink -- rather than because of health concerns from second hand smoke.

We have had the slow progression of smoking restrictions here [in BC Canada] and there were a lot of the doom and gloom "businesses won't survive" statements along with smokers' rights arguments. Currently, smoking is prohibited inside buildings open to the public and has been expanded to within a certain distance of doors even outside the buildings. Businesses appear to have been unaffected. Put simply, a legislated smoking ban is revenue neutral if it applies to all businesses equally.

Friends who smoke have accepted the situation. If they want to smoke they will pop outside for a few minutes [sometimes I'll keep them company -- standing upwind]. Interestingly, they have also become more aware of the spread of the smoke and make every effort to keep it to themselves, even outdoors.

As a reformed cigarette smoker [I will still have the occasional cigar -- outside] it is refreshing not to have to put up with someone else's smoke and my clothes don't stink after going out. It would also be nice not to have someone blowing smoke in my face at the tables in Las Vegas.

Here in the UK ALL Casinos, bars, restaurants, train stations, and other public places are now non smoking. As a smoker i find it a damn inconvenience but nothing more. I always considered myself a considerate smoker. I never smoked in a restaurant. I never smoke in front of children. I believe as an adult i should be entitled to choice, as should other adults, which is why it really peeved me when the legislation was passed regardless of public opinion.

However back to the Casino. In our Casino, owned by one of the 2 biggest operators in the Uk, the anti smoking regulation has made little difference overall, and neither has the economic crisis. We are ahead of projected earnings and targets.

If all casinos in Vegas were forced to go smoke free, and provided smoking areas for the clientele, then i dont think it would affect the numbers too much. Seperate smoking and non smoking areas would probably be the easiest way to keep everyone happy.

Thanks for the comments about Canada and the UK. I think the same would happen in Vegas, and has happened in other states. My cap and trade proposal I believe would be revenue positive. The smokers would have casinos they are made to feel welcome, with no non-smokers fanning smoke away or blowing it back. The non-smokers would have non-smoking casinos. In other words, everybody is happy, and more business from both sides would be induced. If the non-smoking casinos don’t do as well financially, the market would ensure that they would be appropriately subsidized by the smoking casinos via trading smoking permits. I’m not saying it will ever actually happen. It is just an idea to put on the table. If the casinos don’t want to do it voluntarily, then just wait until the Nevada voters pass a no-smoking initiative for casinos, as we recently did for bars that serve food and convenience stores.

I don't know if you can monetize a smoking policy. Casinos don't really know what the value of allowing smoking is any more than they know the value of banning it. They are afraid of the unknown and so hesitant to act. They know they will annoy someone no matter what.

Most casinos have an open floorplan for surveillance and crowd control purposes and airwalls are expensive. The likely outcome is that casinos will await legislation because then they are blameless.

The concept of a smoking bar/casino might work as would simply designating areas of the casino as non-smoking and cranking up some of the ventillation fans. Once the casinos see a sharp change in their bottom line, they will sit up and take notice. Formal trading of smoking licenses might indeed work once the fundamental income factors were known.

Ontario casinos are smoke-free, so the Niagara region makes a nice case study for smoke-free casinos.

There are 2 casinos on the Canadian side of the falls (Casino Niagara and Fallsview Casino), while there is 1 on the American side (Seneca Niagara Casino), all within a few miles of each other. The Canadian casinos are smoke-free, the American casino is very smokey.

I found 2007 annual revenues for both:
combined Canadian (smoke-free): ~$643 Million CDN
American (smoking allowed): ~$593 Million USD

At 2007 exchange rates, the American revenue is higher. I couldn't find the actual profits for the Canadian Niagara casinos.

The Ontario government believes a significant portion of the Canadian revenue is from American tourists. This might serve as evidence that a smoke-free casino could survive in Vegas.

Perhaps a micro-comparison might help with this question: Red Rock has, I believe, two totally separate Bingo areas. One is entirely smoke free and is separately ventilated. I don't know if any utilization statistics exist but it might show what is preferred. Aleast amongst the Bingo crowd.

That is true; the Red Rock has a separate bingo room for smokers. The walls on two sides are glass, so the smokers can still see what is going on. I live just a few miles from the Red Rock, and have played bingo there several times. There is never a shortage of space in either section. I would roughly estimate that the smoking section is 25% of the space, and gets 40% of the players. I would be interested as which type of player buys more tickets. I wonder if casinos resist going non-smoking because smokers simply bet more.

As a non-smoker, I applaud what the Red Rock did. At the Suncoast, by comparison, there are smoking and non-smoking sides of the room. Trust me, the smoke finds it way to the non-smoking side. The Pala casino tried a glass walled-off room in their main casino. However, when I was there recently I see they removed it. Perhaps smoker apartheid works better in bingo rooms.

If I can change the topic, have any smokers reading this tried the electronic cigarettes? If so, how did they work out for you?