Etiquette Question - Mispay on Ultimate Texas Hold'em

Hello all,
Las night I was playing Ultimate Texas Hold'em at a local casino in Kansas City. I was having an incredible run so I wasn't paying as close attention as a I probably should have.
The guy sitting next to me really had no idea what he was doing, but he ended up with a two pair of queen x. there was a queen and x on the board. For some reason, the dealer stated there was a full house and payed as such. I realized it as the guy was taking the chips from the table and the dealer was scooping up the cards that he in fact only had a two pair.
What should you do in that situation? Do you say something? It has bothered me since last night. Never had that happen before so I just wanted to hear peoples opinions.

The dealer has a job for a reason.

If it is something so egregious that you feel you should say something, than go ahead. After all, the rules say he should have lost, and he shouldn't be upset just because another player says something. You put your money on the line by choice, and you agree to the rules beforehand. Whether he did it on purpose or not is another conversation. That doesn't matter.

I think overall, most people wouldn't say anything, because they would rather see someone get money for a dealer's mistake. I think the chances of someone saying something goes up proportionally to the amount of the payoff. Higher payoff, higher probability someone will speak up.

In the end, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It isn't your job to make sure everyone is paid correctly. That is why the casino pays for wages and training for their dealers. Their bad, not yours.

In this scenario, I would feel like a total asshat for saying something and denying someone of a payout. The only time I might say something is if I was receiving constant flak in a game like Let it Ride for not playing the bonus bet/3 Card side bet from that person and they just started making me mad. In that situation, I would probably rat them out, but in general I keep my mouth shut.

Exactly what I would expect most people to do.

Duckman's response is going to be characteristic of the general public. Because it is ultimately the DEALER's responsibility. Not any of the players. What if you are playing some complex table game, and don't understand all of the rules. You don't know all the time if you should be getting paid or not. If the dealer pushes chips your way, how are you to know the difference? Duckman is right. Don't sweat it.

Nareed's 19th Law of Las Vegas:

Quote:

20) Do not EVER correct a dealer's mistake in favor of another player. You'll infuriate the player, and you won't get more than a nod from the casino (if that much). This law is null if you're attracted to the dealer and keep your brains and your gametes in the same body part.

Quote: Nareed

Nareed's 19th Law of Las Vegas:

Why does it have a 20 next to it? :)

It's a good law. But someone should never get "infuriated" by a called mistake. Play the game. Be a winner, not a whiner.

Quote: duckmankilla

In this scenario, I would feel like a total asshat for saying something and denying someone of a payout. The only time I might say something is if I was receiving constant flak in a game like Let it Ride for not playing the bonus bet/3 Card side bet from that person and they just started making me mad. In that situation, I would probably rat them out, but in general I keep my mouth shut.

In this situation, I'd feel like a total asshat for keeping shut and rubber-stamping that wrong - doesn't matter which direction the error is - except for the personal greed or disinterest in justifying it, "if it ain't me getting shortchanged." It's the same event, except that "it's okay if I or another else screws 'the casino'/'someone else'/'not me.'"

As for the dealer getting paid, the dealer gets paid the same salary if the error's the other way, too, but somehow that's not okay then. Mistakes happen, to err is human.

The player didn't win that money, plain and simple, and stopping an error can help a dealer trainee keep a job they'd grow into. Remember your first day at whatever job.

I look at it this way: clean money is earned or won without error. Dirty money is accepted when you know it wasn't won or earned, but remain silent in knowledge that it didn't add up.
You're a participant at the table, and can't truly say "Well, I'm not here, not my business," when you would the other way around, if it were "me." And you can't complain then if game rules go less favorable, to cover losses, whatever the cause.

20) Do not EVER correct a dealer's mistake in favor of another player. You'll infuriate the player, and you won't get more than a nod from the casino (if that much). This law is null if you're attracted to the dealer and keep your brains and your gametes in the same body part.

This is outstanding. I especially like the null and void clause if the dealer is attractive. This reminds me of my favorite show at the moment, How I Met Your Mother, where Barney consistently reminds everyone that he only has one rule. The "one rule" always changes but it invariably has to do with attractive women and his endeavors to sleep with them. After telling his friends his "one rule" for accomplishing this feat, he always lists the exception to his rule, which remains the same, and is "unless she's hot".

For example, one of Barney's many "one rule" scenarios:

"Never sleep with a girl with a hook for a hand... unless she's hot."

Haha total derailing of the topic, but Nareed made me think of my love for this show.

Quote: Paigowdan

In this situation, I'd feel like a total asshat for keeping shut and rubber-stamping that wrong - doesn't matter which direction the error is - except for the personal greed or disinterest in justifying it, "if it ain't me getting shortchanged." It's the same event, except that "it's okay if I or another else screws 'the casino'/'someone else'/'not me.'"

As for the dealer getting paid, the dealer gets paid the same salary if the error's the other way, too, but somehow that's not okay then. Mistakes happen, to err is human.

The player didn't win that money, plain and simple, and stopping an error can help a dealer trainee keep a job they'd grow into. Remember your first day at whatever job.

I look at it this way: clean money is earned or won without error. Dirty money is accepted when you know it wasn't won or earned, but remain silent in knowledge that it didn't add up.
You're a participant at the table, and can't truly say "Well, I'm not here, not my business," when you would the other way around, if it were "me." And you can't complain then if game rules go less favorable, to cover losses, whatever the cause.

To get back on topic, I really dont think failing to speak up for a single mispay is going to account for worse game rules. For the few mispays that I witness in a player's favor, I'm sure there are short-pays in the other direction, so these tiny errors are minor accounting errors in my eyes. To deny a player a $45 win instead of a $30 in the case of a Let it Ride 3 of a kind vs. 2 pair really doesn't make sense to me. Yes, I agree that players will counter short-pays much more often than they will argue overpays but from my own experience, I really don't think these happen enough to justify a casino instituting worse rules for the player.

We are talking about million and billion dollar revenue industries. Is that $15 that I watched another player earn going to destroy the game that I enjoy playing? In my opinion, no.

It's a totality of the circumstances judgment call, made in the heat of the moment.

The general rule, as Nareed says, is to not correct. That said, I have corrected in the past for a number of reasons, including:

(1) The dealer is hot. (Barney's exception.)
(2) The dealer is obviously inexperienced, well-intentioned, and trying to learn the game.
(3) The player getting the benefit of the error is an asshole.
(4) Just the general mood of the table, and timing issues.

Of course, I will always correct an error made in the house's favor, no matter which player is affected.