Cruise Ship Tips Over
January 18th, 2012 at 11:33:24 PM
permalink
We cruised the Inland Passage on a Holland America ship, and enjoyed it.
Older crowd, but my mom was with us, so that was fine.
Plenty of activities on board the large cruise ship: I especially enjoyed the casino.
The thing I like about cruises is seeing different things on shore: highlight was taking a helicopter to and then landing on a glacier in Juneau.
Seeing the glaciers calving in the fjords / bays was also very interesting.
Well worth it.
Older crowd, but my mom was with us, so that was fine.
Plenty of activities on board the large cruise ship: I especially enjoyed the casino.
The thing I like about cruises is seeing different things on shore: highlight was taking a helicopter to and then landing on a glacier in Juneau.
Seeing the glaciers calving in the fjords / bays was also very interesting.
Well worth it.
"What, me worry?"
January 19th, 2012 at 8:50:52 AM
permalink
As someone who has been on a few cruises in his 20s and 30s, it all comes down to expectations. There are so many cruise lines and each seems to have it's own clientele. I make the analogy to buying a car. On paper a Buick may look great, but the 30 year old isn't going to like the 'older' association stigma. At the time the highlights of cruising to me and my wife were the ability to see many islands in th Caribbean in one trip. My own personal highlights were an engineer's tour of the ship on Holland American, where we did a full tour of the engine rooms, control room, crew areas, etc. 3.5 hrs of fun to this EE.
Cruising on the SS Norway was fun too - only cruise I had a claw foot tub in the room.
-B
Cruising on the SS Norway was fun too - only cruise I had a claw foot tub in the room.
-B
January 19th, 2012 at 1:11:44 PM
permalink
Quote: toastcmuAs someone who has been on a few cruises in his 20s and 30s, it all comes down to expectations. There are so many cruise lines and each seems to have it's own clientele. I make the analogy to buying a car. On paper a Buick may look great, but the 30 year old isn't going to like the 'older' association stigma. At the time the highlights of cruising to me and my wife were the ability to see many islands in th Caribbean in one trip. My own personal highlights were an engineer's tour of the ship on Holland American, where we did a full tour of the engine rooms, control room, crew areas, etc. 3.5 hrs of fun to this EE.
Cruising on the SS Norway was fun too - only cruise I had a claw foot tub in the room.
-B
When did you get the tour? I honestly think I would wet myself if I was given the chance to tour the engine rooms, control room, and especially the bridge. My understanding was, since 9/11, there are no more tours allowed. However, it doesn't seem possible that 'no tours' could be any kind of government or country regulation enforceable in International waters so who knows what the real answer is.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
January 19th, 2012 at 1:48:19 PM
permalink
I toured the bridge of the Carnival lines ship Carnivale back in 1982, but I lost track of time and missed out on the tour of the engine room. The only engine room I have seen is the portion they have on view at the Queen Mary, which is on display in Long Beach. I think both the security issues and the nuisance issues have convinced the lines not to offer such tours any more. If they did, I think I would try to tour every time.
January 19th, 2012 at 1:51:53 PM
permalink
I really can't remember for sure, but in the back of my head, I seem to recall a bridge tour available on the cruise I took last September on Norweigian Cruise Lines. I'm sure that if it was available, then it had to be out of my budget, because I'd jump at the chance too.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 19th, 2012 at 2:02:46 PM
permalink
Both the bridge tour I took and the engine room tour I missed were free of charge. It was similar to getting a backstage tour of the theater, guided by a member of the cruise director's staff with backup if necessary from a bridge/engine room officer. Not at all like one of the shore excursions.
January 19th, 2012 at 3:01:36 PM
permalink
Raleigh - The tour was in 98, pre 9/11, obviously. As far as I know you are correct, that no tours are offered because of the security risk.
Doc - yep, this was completely free - back in the day, all you had to do is write a letter to the Chief Engineer of the ship with a request and any reasons why you should be picked for the tour - You'd get a nice letterhead back if you were allowed to participate, and would meet at some location. The tour was limited to about 20 people, if my memory serves me correct.
-B
Doc - yep, this was completely free - back in the day, all you had to do is write a letter to the Chief Engineer of the ship with a request and any reasons why you should be picked for the tour - You'd get a nice letterhead back if you were allowed to participate, and would meet at some location. The tour was limited to about 20 people, if my memory serves me correct.
-B
January 19th, 2012 at 3:14:55 PM
permalink
The 'BIG BOAT CRUISES', that are basically eat fests, have little to attract me. I've done 2-- Alaska and a 4 Island Carribean--- both much too much 'nothing to do' time. Small boat cruises in interesting places are GREAT. The Yangtzee, the Nile, the Galapagos, and between St. Petersburg and Moscow, were all great trips.
January 19th, 2012 at 4:15:01 PM
permalink
Quote: SOOPOOThe 'BIG BOAT CRUISES', that are basically eat fests, have little to attract me. I've done 2-- Alaska and a 4 Island Carribean--- both much too much 'nothing to do' time. Small boat cruises in interesting places are GREAT. The Yangtzee, the Nile, the Galapagos, and between St. Petersburg and Moscow, were all great trips.
In general, I would think it would be much more fun to be on a river.
January 19th, 2012 at 4:44:34 PM
permalink
A co-worker and his wife spent about ten days on a boat touring a few European rivers, mostly in Germany, and he really enjoyed it.
"What, me worry?"
January 20th, 2012 at 4:56:15 AM
permalink
The course deviation may have been unauthorized and selfish but was not necessarily unsafe since it closely fit an approved deviation that had been followed August 14th. The UK Hydrographic Office charts do not show the rocks on which the ship initially went aground.
The ship was holed on the port side but very promptly listed to starboard and it seems that the cause of the fatal list was the hard turn to starboard ordered to bring the ship into a nearby port. A more gentle turn and the ship would not have listed.
The ship was holed on the port side but very promptly listed to starboard and it seems that the cause of the fatal list was the hard turn to starboard ordered to bring the ship into a nearby port. A more gentle turn and the ship would not have listed.
January 20th, 2012 at 10:54:35 AM
permalink
Quote: FleaStiffThe ship was holed on the port side but very promptly listed to starboard and it seems that the cause of the fatal list was the hard turn to starboard ordered to bring the ship into a nearby port. A more gentle turn and the ship would not have listed.
The ship left Civitavecchia roughly 50 miles away and hit the rock at 9:42 p.m. Looking at a map,it looks like the rock was 500 yards north of the Island harbor. I assume that the Captain was trying to turn around and pull into the island harbor? Could that small island (population 1500) port have handled a huge cruise ship carrying 4200 people? I understand it was one of the largest ships in Italy.
Harbor on Isola Giglio
January 20th, 2012 at 11:57:36 AM
permalink
Ship hit a rock off Isolo de Scolo. The rocks were not on the UK Hydrographic Office charts.
The ship came to rest on rocks off Punta Gabbianatta after the vessel had proceeded to a point off Lazaretto and then executed a turn to starboard to head past point Gabbinaatta and into or near the small Giglio Porto which would have at least been more sheltered waters for the launching of life boats.
A turn into Giglio Porto would have been a turn to port, but the captain may have felt a turn to starboard would be safer as well as faster. However, the resultant sloshing of the water in unbaffled areas apparently shifted the center of gravity causing a 20 degree list to starboard which proved fatal as she never righted herself from it.
Waters were dangerously shallow and course was unsafe but did closely mimic an earlier course that has passed very close to the Isolo de Scolo rocks but had somehow avoided hitting them.
The ship came to rest on rocks off Punta Gabbianatta after the vessel had proceeded to a point off Lazaretto and then executed a turn to starboard to head past point Gabbinaatta and into or near the small Giglio Porto which would have at least been more sheltered waters for the launching of life boats.
A turn into Giglio Porto would have been a turn to port, but the captain may have felt a turn to starboard would be safer as well as faster. However, the resultant sloshing of the water in unbaffled areas apparently shifted the center of gravity causing a 20 degree list to starboard which proved fatal as she never righted herself from it.
Waters were dangerously shallow and course was unsafe but did closely mimic an earlier course that has passed very close to the Isolo de Scolo rocks but had somehow avoided hitting them.
January 20th, 2012 at 1:36:43 PM
permalink
"The rocks were not on the UK Hydrographic Office charts."
The UK charts are 1:300,000 scale and not (according to them) designed for shoreline work. I believe the UKHO recommend that people use bigger scale, local charts for anything close to land.
The UK charts are 1:300,000 scale and not (according to them) designed for shoreline work. I believe the UKHO recommend that people use bigger scale, local charts for anything close to land.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
January 20th, 2012 at 2:06:01 PM
permalink
Quote: FleaStiffShip hit a rock off Isolo de Scolo. The rocks were not on the UK Hydrographic Office charts.
The ship came to rest on rocks off Punta Gabbianatta after the vessel had proceeded to a point off Lazaretto and then executed a turn to starboard to head past point Gabbinaatta and into or near the small Giglio Porto which would have at least been more sheltered waters for the launching of life boats.
A turn into Giglio Porto would have been a turn to port, but the captain may have felt a turn to starboard would be safer as well as faster. However, the resultant sloshing of the water in unbaffled areas apparently shifted the center of gravity causing a 20 degree list to starboard which proved fatal as she never righted herself from it.
Waters were dangerously shallow and course was unsafe but did closely mimic an earlier course that has passed very close to the Isolo de Scolo rocks but had somehow avoided hitting them.
I understand now, I got a bad lat and long out of wikipedia. The ship hit the rock before reaching the island port. Had he responded immediately it would have been a quick port turn into the harbor. Instead he sailed past the harbor and made a starboard turn and attempted to return to the harbor, and that flooded the spaces. That's why there was over 4 hours between the crash and the ship to shore radio communication.
That does look bad for the captain. Not just that he hit the rocks, but that he doesn't appear to have responded quickly and competently to the crash. I think he is toast.
You can see from the times that he would have had about 15 or 20 minutes to make the correct decision. If he waited, then it was too late.
January 20th, 2012 at 2:18:34 PM
permalink
>I think he is toast.
A certain 24 year old ballerina is standing by him. I don't think anyone else is. However the track he followed while unauthorized is one that had been followed and authorized the previous August and which took him only about a hundred feed away from that rock.
The passengers telephoned the police, the police called the vessel and someone on the bridge told the police that it was only an electrical problem despite the knowledge that they were taking on water and that the boats had been ordered lowered two minutes earlier. Even a prompt MayDay would have brought dozens of smaller vessels and two large ones.
A certain 24 year old ballerina is standing by him. I don't think anyone else is. However the track he followed while unauthorized is one that had been followed and authorized the previous August and which took him only about a hundred feed away from that rock.
The passengers telephoned the police, the police called the vessel and someone on the bridge told the police that it was only an electrical problem despite the knowledge that they were taking on water and that the boats had been ordered lowered two minutes earlier. Even a prompt MayDay would have brought dozens of smaller vessels and two large ones.
January 20th, 2012 at 5:33:03 PM
permalink
Quote: FleaStiffEven a prompt MayDay would have brought dozens of smaller vessels and two large ones.
What Captain Schettino himself told investigators is that he tripped and fell into a lifeboat accidentally while trying to help others. However, the No. 1 and No. 2 next ranking Concordia officers must have tripped and fallen also, since they were all in the same lifeboat.
While I think the "Captain going down with his ship" is more of a saying than an actual law, it does not seem to me that there was imminent danger unless you were below deck. Possibly I have the certainty of hindsight.
I doubt that anyone would expect him to actually go down with an empty ship, but he seems to have left when there were still a significant percentage of the passengers still evacuating.
At this point Carnival should just write off the ship, and give it to some third world country as a show of good faith. It would be better than repairing it and struggling to fill it with passengers for the next two decades.
January 20th, 2012 at 6:05:32 PM
permalink
No law requires a captain to go down with his ship or to be the last to abandon ship.
The only laws that apply to an Italian flagged vessel in Italian waters is Italian law, which means an Italian court and that means more theater than law anyway.
The International Laws of the Sea do NOT require women and children to be first nor do they require that it be passengers first, crew members may legally take to the lifeboats while passengers are still aboard a vessel that is in distress. Of course in this situation, the Concordia crew were simply cowards who knew boats would be less and less available and decided to "get while the getting was good" rather than wait until the getting was more honorable and fewer passengers were still aboard.
The ship is clearly a total writeoff but the five marine insurance carriers involved will probably be making that decision.
The only laws that apply to an Italian flagged vessel in Italian waters is Italian law, which means an Italian court and that means more theater than law anyway.
The International Laws of the Sea do NOT require women and children to be first nor do they require that it be passengers first, crew members may legally take to the lifeboats while passengers are still aboard a vessel that is in distress. Of course in this situation, the Concordia crew were simply cowards who knew boats would be less and less available and decided to "get while the getting was good" rather than wait until the getting was more honorable and fewer passengers were still aboard.
The ship is clearly a total writeoff but the five marine insurance carriers involved will probably be making that decision.
January 20th, 2012 at 8:01:33 PM
permalink
This sad incident fans the flames of ancient prejudices, e.g. "Italian man = histrionic COWARD,"
"What, me worry?"
January 20th, 2012 at 8:13:15 PM
permalink
hey how can you tell the italian navy.......oh, never mind.
January 20th, 2012 at 8:30:44 PM
permalink
HEAVEN is where:
The police are British
The chefs Italian
The mechanics are German
The lovers are French
and it's all run by the Swiss
HELL is where:
The police are German
The chefs are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
and it's all run by the Italians!!
The police are British
The chefs Italian
The mechanics are German
The lovers are French
and it's all run by the Swiss
HELL is where:
The police are German
The chefs are British
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
and it's all run by the Italians!!
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 21st, 2012 at 1:51:48 AM
permalink
Ancient prejudices confront modern reality. Ships flags are ALL flags of convenience. Crews are always a polyglot. Decades of experience don't count for nuttin' if you sail too close to shallow waters and tear a chunk out of the bottom of the ship: there will still be a ships officer telling you the "electrical problem" has been fixed and you may now all return to your cabin. She may be Italian, Greek, or Whatever. It makes no difference. There will always be misinformation and the senior officers will always trip into the lifeboats.Quote: MrVThis sad incident fans the flames of ancient prejudices, e.g. "Italian man = histrionic COWARD,"
January 22nd, 2012 at 3:05:58 AM
permalink
A flurry of cell phone calls to relatives took place and one relative phoned the police who contacted the Harbor Master who apparently radioed the ship to learn that there was an electrical problem which they expected to have fixed in twenty minutes. The ship's officer said nothing about an impact, a holed bottom, a leak or a list, an order to don life-jackets or to launch lifeboats.
Harbor Master reported he did not trust the information received from the ships officer.
Harbor Master reported he did not trust the information received from the ships officer.
February 21st, 2012 at 8:08:11 PM
permalink
Discovery Network just aired a special about the ship that tipped
over last month. Lots of video shot by passengers onboard. The best
part was a sound bite of the Coast Guard officer screaming at the
ships captain who had abandoned the boat. He was telling him he
had to take a lifeboat back to the ship and co-ordinate the rescue.
The captain was reticent to do so. And because they were screaming in Italian,
it was even more entertaining. Ah, the Italians, what can you say
that hasn't been said a million times since WWII ended..
over last month. Lots of video shot by passengers onboard. The best
part was a sound bite of the Coast Guard officer screaming at the
ships captain who had abandoned the boat. He was telling him he
had to take a lifeboat back to the ship and co-ordinate the rescue.
The captain was reticent to do so. And because they were screaming in Italian,
it was even more entertaining. Ah, the Italians, what can you say
that hasn't been said a million times since WWII ended..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
July 22nd, 2012 at 3:40:43 PM
permalink
I completely forgot about the Greek owned Oceanos cruise
ship that sank in 1991. The same thing happened there,
the captain and crew disappeared at the first sign of
trouble and saved themselves. The passengers were
rescued becuase of the heroic efforst of the entertainment
staff. They organized everybody and the rescue went well
and nonody died. The entertainment director was the last
one to leave the boat.
Of course the captain and crew got a slap on the wrist
for deserting. If it had been an American boat and captain,
or British, he'd still be in prison.
ship that sank in 1991. The same thing happened there,
the captain and crew disappeared at the first sign of
trouble and saved themselves. The passengers were
rescued becuase of the heroic efforst of the entertainment
staff. They organized everybody and the rescue went well
and nonody died. The entertainment director was the last
one to leave the boat.
Of course the captain and crew got a slap on the wrist
for deserting. If it had been an American boat and captain,
or British, he'd still be in prison.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
