Red Flag Comp 'Cheats'

This is from an article written by a vice president
at Foxwoods. Its goes along with what Paigowdan
was saying in the other Red Flag thread.

"Next we need to look at skill level versus patron profitability. The reality is that some customers are very highly skilled Black Jack, Craps or Roulette players and or they are excellent money managers and understand all of the advantages to their benefit. Please don’t misunderstand me. As long as the customer is not cheating, I really don’t have a problem or issues with letting someone play in our casino. Obviously we have protective measures to counteract card counting but otherwise skill level is another issue that needs to be addressed separately."

"This is a huge problem in casinos today. Controlling comps is not easy. Controlling comps issued to highly skilled, non-profitable customers is critical. To accomplish this at Foxwoods, we formed a Comp Review Committee that meets on a regular basis to review such problems and patrons. We utilize internal reports to generate what we call our Red Flag Report. This report consists of a list of players whose play and profitability fall outside of pre-determined criteria or variances." Read full article HERE.

In a nutshell, they're saying players who are smart
enough break even consistantly should be considered
winners because the casino comps them. So they
have a committee that ferrets them out and punishes
them. Can you believe this crap? Casinos are always
saying 'We LOVE winners, we don't care when players
win!' When the truth is, not only do they HATE winners,
they don't even tolerate people who play outside the
comp variance. Its just as I've always said, casinos want
every dime you have, they feel entitled to it. Articles
like this are real eye openers as to how casinos really
think.

This article is 5 years old. But it makes sense. Casinos are always looking to maximize profitability and it treats different players differently because they are more skillled or abuse their normal comps. Not a surprise.

Great exposure for this article in these forums. It's a real eye-opener. The reality is that as long as casinos need customers there will still be promotions. The more educated the gambler, the better.

Quote: boymimbo

This article is 5 years old. But it makes sense.

Yeah, this is before the economy dumped. You think
its not worse now, you think they aren't looking to
find every dime they can? They're such hypocriotes,
thats what gets to me. Hey, come play at our casino,
we love winners. They don't even like players who
break even. Unless you lose, and lose within their
predetermined variance, they don't even want you
on the property.

Casinos only want losers plain and simple or else they would never bar or back off consistant winners for whatever reason except illegal activity.

The reality is, with the tremendous advances
in computer technology in the last decade, casinos
are able to track individual players with an accuracy
unheard of in the past. They can see who makes
them money and who costs them money. It
blatantly points out that the casino isn't there to 'entertain'
you, as they so ridiculously claim. Their only reason
for existence is to seperate you from your money.

Quote: EvenBob

The reality is, with the tremendous advances in computer technology in the last decade, casinos are able to track individual players with an accuracy unheard of in the past. They can see who makes them money and who costs them money.

Yes, there is some sort of CRM Customer Resource Management acronym. Consider a telephone clerk at a credit card company: they used not to have much leeway in what they could do and little decision making data about a particular customer. Now they have all the late pays, fees and interest data. For a simple call they know who has been paying regularly and is therefore an expense to them and they who has been paying gadzillion late fees and penalty fees and interest fees. The increased availability of information and the increased automatic groupings that can be done by computer leaves lower level managers with an increased ability to cherry pick.

The Evil Empire has long been famous for always paring its comps to the bone. It offers inducements but once it determines someone is likely to show up at the casino anyway the mailing values go down. After there has been no response for a while the comps may head back up slightly. Everything is attuned to a butcher-like attitude of trimming the meat from the bone automatically. Computers make that possible though firing many dealers and promoting idiots to Floor Men often makes the initial input data doubtful.

It goes back to Harrah's room size and configuration experiments decades ago. All those movable walls and surveys lead to an ability to really know the dividing lines on how much space they actually had to give their guests. The multiple brands let them maximize each market segment.

Casinos are the same way and always have been: Benny Binion did the same thing. A guy wanted to talk about raising his limits, Benny Binion didn't waste time: he said your limit is the size of your next bet. Sort of a put up or shut up attitude. You think you are worthy of some special consideration... then prove it on your next bet! The Evil Empire does the same thing with computers and marketing techniques. You want a Comp to the buffet Mr. "X"... well we will give a comp to the Deli because we know your wife will drag you here next week anyway no matter what we do so we don't have to keep you too happy, just happy enough.

That this is Foxwoods says a lot. But this is smart business, isn't it? I might wish they would stay stupid, but I can't get mad. I might be concerned that an outfit all aflutter about this is comping me for half of what they should be, though.

I'm just a beginner at joining up officially at the places I gamble. Unfortunately I have been nailed immediately as too much of a piker playing too tight HE, so they are not so stupid as that seems to me. Granted, I did nothing to try to initially fool anyone when first getting a player's card, as it is not in my nature to be dishonest about something like that. Nonetheless it appears offers and coupons are going to come anyway (perhaps not from Foxwoods! [g])

I have no idea what your issue with this is. If someone isn't profitable for the casino, the casino doesn't want to comp them...

So you're saying that you have the "right to be comped"? Don't play for comps then!

I play at Horseshoe because I like free rooms when I go to Vegas. If they stopped giving me free rooms, then maybe I would go there less. Either way, the casino is a business, they can do whatever they want, and I will decide if I want to be a customer there.

A customer of a business should not be able to set the rules.

And to think that you are surprised that the casino doesn't want to lose money on someone? I just don't understand the confusion here.

Quote: boymimbo

This article is 5 years old. But it makes sense. Casinos are always looking to maximize profitability and it treats different players differently because they are more skillled or abuse their normal comps. Not a surprise.

EvenBob's commentary is 100% true and I've been saying the same things for years. Casino shills on forums like this and elsewhere continue to tell us how much patrons are valued but they are lying through their teeth.

I am very familiar with Steve Karoul the author of the the article that Bob linked to because I am one of his "victims". During his reign I was not only backed off but had my point balance wiped out as well. Luckily I had just gone Christmas shopping at Foxwoods so the balance was low. APs had a healthy respect for this guy and no one took it personally.

Mr. Karoul is no longer at Foxwoods having recently left for the second time, but I have a feeling they would hire him back in a heartbeat.