Anybody iinterested in Colorado gambling ?

I will be going to Blackhawk but not again for about 2 months due to school. Was thinking of researching my facts and dates
till then and do a casino by casino review and history of Blackhawk and Central city on my next visit. I worked in a small casono 20 years ago and have witnessed the failures and successes up close and personal. Might be interesting if you are planning a trip to Colorado in the near future. Will just be my personal observations. Don't expect any great paco-like charts. Just how gaming in
Colorado went from " open the doors and let the suckers in " to "OMG, are all the casino's bankrupt " and the effect on dog and
horse racing

Until recently, I didn't realize there was a 'gaming district' consisting of more than one casino in a town, anywhere in Colorado.

I was shocked to learn that there are at least 10 casinos in a 3/4 mile stretch of road in Blackhark, plus a couple more just a little ways away.


I doubt that I'll be visiting them any time soon, but I love reading this stuff, so I voted "Sure".

My wife wants to visit northern New Mexico (Albuquerque, Sante Fe, Taos), and we are currently considering flying out from NC for a visit this fall at a time to include the balloon festival. Neither of us has ever been to Colorado (other than once when I changed planes at the Denver airport), so I have suggested that we extend that NM trip to include an excursion to Denver and a drive through the Rocky Mountain National Park.

I am not a serious gambler, but I do enjoy some table games, and I collect a souvenir $1 chip from each casino I visit. If we are able to make the NM-CO trip this fall, I will try to visit briefly as many of the casinos as I can in northern NM, Black Hawk, Central City, and Cripple Creek. I have tried to compile a list of the casinos using such sites as CasinoCity.com and blackhawkcolorado.com, but I am not sure I have an accurate list -- the web sites don't seem to always agree, and it's not clear which ones are out of date. I'm not interested in slot parlors, just the casinos with games like craps and blackjack that use chips, and I'm not a poker player.

I will be very interested in reading your commentary.

The Land of Disenchantment has some strange ideas concerning casino administration particularly as to drink service, signage and events. Its all "manana" and if you don't go around talking about having been abducted aboard a UFO they think you are weird.

I live in Colorado and hit the Black Hawk/Central City casinos a couple times a month. What do you need to know?

There are Ameristar and Isle of Capri properties in Black Hawk. (The Lady Luck casino is an Isle property.) The Gilpin and Lodge casinos are co-owned and use the same player's card; the Lodge is bigger but the Gilpin has better rules/odds. Both places count odds in rating craps (the floor men at both places have told me).

Many of the casinos can get real slow during the week. They pick up around 6 or 7 though, and weekends can get quite busy.

How did Central City blow the opportunity of a lifetime ??

Quote: buzzpaff

How did Central City blow the opportunity of a lifetime ??

What do you mean, that all the big casinos are in Black Hawk? Maybe zoning laws or stricter building permits or something.

Or maybe it was the muddy parklots, only buses allowed to drive down main street, building moritorium to keep out big casino's,
lousy customer service, etc. Even the Teller house could not survive with " the face on the bar room floor" Annie Oakleys is a grocery store again.

Have you guys been to the Indian casinos in the southern party of CO? How are they? Is there anything that makes them worth the drive down from Denver or up from ABQ?

Quote: buzzpaff

Or maybe it was the muddy parklots, only buses allowed to drive down main street, building moritorium to keep out big casino's,
lousy customer service, etc. Even the Teller house could not survive with " the face on the bar room floor" Annie Oakleys is a grocery store again.

I've only been going to BH/CC since the state started allowing full table games. The three full-service casinos in CC have their own parking garages (Century and Johnny Z's are served by the same garage). There are some one-way streets but none that I know of that are closed.

CC is certainly quieter during the week than BH is, though, and it wouldn't surprise me to see one of the three close. Fortune Valley seems to be hurting particularly badly; they recently closed their grill/snack bar thingy downstairs. I'd miss it more than the Century. Johnny Z's seems pleasant enough and I get pretty good comps from them. Also to your point, I don't think the shuttle runs between BH and CC anymore.

Black Hawk could probably do without one or two properties too. I'd guess the standalone properties on the north end (Bullwhackers, Fitzgerald, Canyon) are hurting the most. Bullwackers got rid of all its table games a few months ago; that's never a good sign.

Quote: rdw4potus

Have you guys been to the Indian casinos in the southern party of CO? How are they? Is there anything that makes them worth the drive down from Denver or up from ABQ?

Haven't been, can't think of a reason to go unless you're there to see the other sights (Mesa Verde, etc.). Plenty of decent gambling closer.

Quote: 7outlineaway

I live in Colorado and hit the Black Hawk/Central City casinos a couple times a month. What do you need to know?

I guess that before I venture into one of the towns, I would like to know which places are actually operating craps and/or blackjack. Although I understand this is the type of thing that could change between now and next week (and certainly before I get there in the fall), I would like to have the list or know a reliable source. Here is what I have put together so far (without a lot of confidence):

Black Hawk:
Ameristar
Canyon
Fitzgeralds
Gilpin
Golden Gates
Isle of Capri
Lady Luck
Lodge
Mardi Gras
Riviera

Central City:
Century
Doc Holiday
Famous Bonanza
Fortune Valley
Johnny Z’s

Cripple Creek
Brass Ass
Bronco/Buffalo Billy’s
Colorado Grande
Double Eagle
Gold Creek
Gold Rush
Wildwood
Womacks

Additions/deletions/corrections? Suggestions as to a reliable, on-line source?

Thanks!

Quote: Doc

I Additions/deletions/corrections? Suggestions as to a reliable, on-line source?

I feel like I'm about to become the best online source for Colorado. There's not a whole lot of consolidated info out there. Most of my experience is with craps.

(Abbreviations: CC=Central City, *not* Cripple; BH=Black Hawk.)

As mentioned above, the casinos in CC with craps tables are the Fortune Valley, Century and Johnny Z's. Each has one table. In BH you have the Fitz, Gilpin, Canyon, Lodge, Ameristar, Golden Gate, Mardi Gras, Lady Luck, Rivera and Isle of Capri with craps. Lodge, Ameristar and Isle are the only places with more than one table nowadays, but during slow times only one may be open. Also, it is common for one dealer spot and even the boxman spot to be unoccupied during slow periods, forcing all the players to one end of the table. I try to avoid these tables personally.

Craps minimums are usually $2, $3 or $5. I've never seen a minimum higher than $5 anywhere in Colorado. Odds range from 345x (Lodge, Fitz) to the state maximum of $100 (Johnny Z's, Gilpin, FV). Otherwise 10x odds is common. Lady Luck has 31:1 payouts on 2 and 12, but all other hop bets and props pay out as usual. Field is double on 2 and 12 everywhere. Several places have 50¢ or even 25¢ chips to accommodate smaller bets. People here are pretty small players, making line bets of $10 or less and rarely taking the full 10x odds when available.

Although no single bet in Colorado can exceed $100, you can partially cirumvent this with multiple bets. For example, on a point of 6, you can have $100 pass line, $100 odds, $96 or $100 placing the 6, whatever on buying the 6, the hard 6, hopping the 6 and Big 6, all at the same time. (Most places have a $50 max on center-table bets, but I think state law still allows $100 here.) When laying odds on Don't bets, the $100 limit is absolute everywhere I've played, so the max lay is either $96, $99 or $100, depending on the number. IOW no one lets you lay $200 to win $100 on no 4. Dealers often get confused with strange lays such as $78 on no 6.

I think state law requires rounding up payoffs, hence most places permit only bets that result in even payouts. For example, you can place the 6 only for multiples of $6, or $3 if the place has 50¢ chips.

Golden Gates and Mardi Gras have the same owner and same player's card, as do Gilpin/Lodge and Lady Luck/Isle. Riviera sounds like it should be owned by someone bigger, but isn't. The dealers at the Gilpin are noticably friendlier than those at the Lodge, and the dealers at Lady Luck are noticably friendlier than those at the Isle, for some reason. As implied earlier, several places count odds (or seem to) when rating craps play. These will most likely be the casinos that are not part of national chains. If you plan to come back here regularly, I would tilt my play to the places with hotels, as I get decent hotel deals in the mail. If you've been playing above the minimum and/or are up or down a lot it can't hurt to ask for a meal. Every time I've asked for a meal I've gotten one. I'm pretty sure the combined offers I get, and use, make craps +EV for me. Lots of cash offers, usually in the range of $5-30 redeemable every week or two. With five or six casinos this adds up.

Other games... Colorado has had BJ all along, so there are some casinos with BJ but no craps. Rules probably aren't the worst but not the greatest either, my intuition would be to play at smaller places (not the Ameristar, Isle or Lodge). $5-10 min, maybe some places have $2-3 tables when slow. I swear I saw a single zero roulette table somewhere (CC?) but forget where. There's 9/6 JoB video poker around, but like everywhere else you have to look for it.

There's not much else to do around CC/BH besides gamble. No grocery stores and no shops other than a couple convenience stores and antique shops. If you drive around a little there's nice scenery, of course. It is easy to walk between the BH casinos, similar to downtown Vegas or Reno. In CC most of the casinos are walkable except that Fortune Valley is a bit away from the others. It's about a mile between BH and CC; there used to be a shuttle between the two towns but I don't think there's one anymore.

To get to BH or CC I swear by the Central City Parkway. It's four lanes, whereas if you take 6/119 you will almost certainly get stuck behind some geezer doing 25 mph. Also, the way back to I-70 via 119/6 isn't direct. There are shuttles to both places from Denver and other Front Range locations. They charge $15-20 but one can usually get reimbursed via a nominal amount of play. I don't know the specifics here (exactly how much play or at which casinos).

Cripple Creek is kind of depressing. I've only been there once -- seemed dead even on a Sunday -- and couldn't even be moved to gamble. It's hard to get to and they really only draw from Colorado Springs. But they have super-bargain-basement minimums. Probably worth going to just to check out, but don't commit to more than a day trip there.

Lemme know if you need more info. Hope this helps.

Quote: 7outlineaway

... the casinos in CC with craps tables are the ... Rivera ....

Thanks a bunch for the info.

Both the CasinoCity.com and rivierablackhawk.com sites give no indication that the Riviera has craps -- I assumed that it did not, but I will accept that your info is more up to date. I expect that craps was rare if it existed at all prior to the increase in the betting limit. I much prefer playing craps to blackjack. I would play with the cards just a while in order to add to my souvenir chip collection, even though my interest in the game is low, but it's nice to know where I can both collect souvenirs and play my favorite casino game. ;-)

Quote: Doc

Thanks a bunch for the info.

Both the CasinoCity.com and rivierablackhawk.com sites give no indication that the Riviera has craps -- I assumed that it did not, but I will accept that your info is more up to date.

They got craps late in 2010.

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Now If I was still living in Denver this would be interesting. Lady luck which is a partner and accessible across an enclosed
bridge from the Isle had a dead poker room. Advertises tournaments 7 days a week mom-thu never fill 1 table, weekends 50-50 chance. Should be interesting early am on weekdays. Everytime I played in last 2 months game closed at 4 or 4:30 am. I was
usually the only player born on this continent usually. Learned alot about how much most asians pay for legal help to bring their wife or children to USA From $10-25K

The company who owns Red Dolly bought Fortune Valley. Hope it does not bring them both down. Remember when FV was Harvey's. Or the Eureka, Dan Cooper was doing fine until he bought Otto's for $1,000,000. It was open a few months as
Winter Haven. Now both are gone but I think Dan still lives in Blackhawk.

The street in front of Doc Holiday's had the most casino's in early days. And only allowed shuttle bus traffic. Last time I drove down it there were like 24 street parking spots and at least 12 were reserved for Police, Guess they don't want to double park and walk off those donuts.

When Penn gaming bought Bullwhackers about 15 years ago they took out all the tables, At that time they had best poker room Go figure. Bullwhackers also just closed the Bullpen which used to be Bronco Billy's. Billy retreated back to Cripple Creek.
One of them empty casinos in CC was the other Bullwhackers casino about 15 years ago. Guess who owns the only Gas Station if
you use 119 to 6 Bullwhackers

Would like to hear more, planning a trip for this summer, so keep it coming.

There is now a "Sasquatch Casino" in Black Hawk.

supposedly someone in black Hawk is offering a two dollar craps table at 50x odds. weekdays?????

On Edit: Its Gilpen. Perhaps others as well but definitely Gilpen.