Speed Laws
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Quote: EvenBobI hope to get some useful info from this thread. In MI, where I live, the speed limit on the freeway is 70mph. But you can safely do 79 and you'll never get a ticket. I've been doing it for 25 years, had state cops right behind me the whole time. Do 80 and you're toast. Yet in OH, where the limit is 65, if you do over 70, thats it. And if you get a prick cop, he'll write you for doing 67. How does it work in your state?
There is an "85th percentile rule" or something like it saying the speed limit should be set at the speed the top 85% of vehicles travel. I've never been in a state where they will write you up for < 5mph over. This seems to give benefit of the doubt to someone who just didn't pay attention to callibration of the radar gun. In OK there is a big sign saying "Speed Limit 75 mph NO TOLERANCE."
Back in AZ I sometimes would be going with to just over the flow of traffic in a 75 zone and look down and see I was doing 100! No cops around, luckily.
On my way across the country in NM I wanted to see how fast she would go since I saw no cops. I did 105 on level. On a very small downgrade I wound it up to 110 and my speedometer said I hit top end. Had my foot glued like lead to the floor. That's all she had there was no more.
In NC running 10 to 15 over is very common on the highways, but 3 or 4 times a year they will run a massive crackdown, and write a few thousand tickets for speeding. I have heard 6 or 7 over is enough to get pinched. Not too hard to catch people, as we are all conditioned to run higher than posted.
Towns are another matter. Many places are speed traps, with speeding tickets representing a fair amount of the town budget. If you are just passing through, and don't know the towns, I would suggest staying at the speed limit. They know how to get your money.
In Ontario, Canada where I live, the speed limit is 100km/h (62), you can generally travel up to 120kph (75) without any issues and I've never been pulled over on a freeway there.
In Washington State I consistently did about 10 over on the I-5 / 405 / 520 routes and never got a ticket there.
Within metro St. Louis, the limits are usually 60, and there are certain small municipalities than get a huge portion of the annual revenue through speed traps, so you really need to make sure you're not more than 6-7 mph over the limit, or are at least keeping with the normal traffic flow & not passing too many more than who pass you.
Quote: Toes14In Missouri, outside of metro areas, the interstates are set at 70 mph. From my experience, you can usually get away with 75-77, but you don't want to go any faster than that without a radar detector or CB radio.
Within metro St. Louis, the limits are usually 60, and there are certain small municipalities than get a huge portion of the annual revenue through speed traps, so you really need to make sure you're not more than 6-7 mph over the limit, or are at least keeping with the normal traffic flow & not passing too many more than who pass you.
There was a supposed rule in the UK where cops discretion was used if the speed of the vehicle was no more than 10% of the sped over the total limit, eg 77mph on the 70 mph motorways, to allow for speedo error. the rule never existed. In a lot of places now the cops will pull you for being anything over.
Quote: teddysDoes anybody here not speed?
Speed? Hell, I dont even drive
On the QEW in Ontario tho, holy smokes. I was doing 90mph and getting passed on both sides. Mini vans, semi trucks, RCMP, it was crazy. Going 62 or whatever the hell it is would have caused everyone to die.
Quote: teddysDoes anybody here not speed?
Guilty.
Speed limit on Mexican highways is 110 kph, around 70 mph. I usually drive a bit under it, mostly on the 90 to 100 kph (for any more conversions divide km by 1.6).
Of course there are exceptions. Two weeks ago I had to deliver someone along with a proposal to Toluca before 10 am, but we couldn't leave the city til 8:45 (long story, and no it wasn't our fault). It's about 70 km from where we were. I drove at around 130 kph where possible.
Quote:The extra 20 minutes upon arrival is not worth risking my life or worrying about passing other cars over.
That's my thinking, too.
One time I hitched a ride with my brother to attend a funeral out of town. he believes the speed limit is the minimum speed he can go at. I got him to slow down by reminding him we did not want to attend our funeral.
But there's city driving. The neighborhood where I live limits speed to 40 kph on the main thoroughfare. No one respects it, least of all the cops. They had to put speed bumps in; on average there's one every 180 meters. I never do less than 60 or 70 kph. Especially when going home after a long day.
And when using the freeway inside the city (knows as "Anillo Periferico" for those of you just dying to know; and because a comment you made about traffic in Mex City last May), the speed limit is 80 kph. This freeway has an upper deck, which is rigged with speed cameras. If I go on it, I stick to the speed limit. Those cameras are serious. But if traffic is light, and sometimes it is, I go on the lower deck and push 100 kph.
Oh, another thing. Mex City is 2,200 meters above sea level. All the highways leading out must cross the mountains surrounding the city (the city itself is in a valley). Naturally this is done by means of passes, but you usually climb to 3,000 meters or more. What this all means is that fog is common on the highways. I never exceed 60 kph in fog, and usually a lot less than that.
Quote: .
What this all means is that fog is common on the highways. I never exceed 60 kph in fog, and usually a lot less than that.[/q
I have a different theory about driving in fog, maybe the math guys can analyze it for me. Driving blind as in fog or blowing snow is the most dangerous driving I do. I think it is worse than slippery roads. Given that it is dangerous, the more time you spend driving in it the more chance you have of being in an accident. I drive like a bat of hell in the fog so that I spend as little time in it as possible. My only worry is rear ending someone like you that is crawling along at 25% of the speed limit. Not likely we will be on the same highway though with you in Mexico and me in Canada.Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Quote: kenarmanQuote: .
What this all means is that fog is common on the highways. I never exceed 60 kph in fog, and usually a lot less than that.[/qI drive like a bat of hell in the fog so that I spend as little time in it as possible. .
Thats literally playing Russian roulette with your car. There is a live round in the gun, believe me, and you're time is running out. I think you're having us on, its like driving with your eyes closed, who would do that."It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Quote: kenarmanGiven that it is dangerous, the more time you spend driving in it the more chance you have of being in an accident. I drive like a bat of hell in the fog so that I spend as little time in it as possible. My only worry is rear ending someone like you that is crawling along at 25% of the speed limit. Not likely we will be on the same highway though with you in Mexico and me in Canada.
In fog, or heavy rain, sleet, hail or snow, you won't see things like a turn or an obstruction (such as stalled car, or a very slow driver), until you're very close. therefore the slower you drive, the more time you have to react. And even if you can't stop, turn or swerve in time, the hit you take will be less intense.
So, yeah, I hope we're never on the same highway.
Quote: kenarmanThat is from your perspective as the slow driver. From mine if I slow down I am then worried about a fast driver rear ending me. Those that aren't comfortable driving in the fog should not be on the road when it is foggy.
So you think if everybody just drove real fast when they can't see where their going, everything will be fine. You're joking, right? Read this:
"Driving in the fog is dangerous - much more dangerous than most people realize. Minimize your likelihood of getting into an accident by being aware of the hazards and knowing how to drive in foggy conditions.
1. Slow down. Most fog-related traffic fatalities occur because someone was driving too fast and couldn't stop in time to avoid a collision."
There are 9 more suggestions, but you only need the first one.
Quote: EvenBobSo you think if everybody just drove real fast when they can't see where their going, everything will be fine. You're joking, right?
The major chain reaction accidents get started when someone hits their brakes and get rear ended. Brakes are never your friend when driving in bad weather.
Quote: kenarman
I have a different theory about driving in fog, maybe the math guys can analyze it for me. Driving blind as in fog or blowing snow is the most dangerous driving I do. I think it is worse than slippery roads. Given that it is dangerous, the more time you spend driving in it the more chance you have of being in an accident. I drive like a bat of hell in the fog so that I spend as little time in it as possible. My only worry is rear ending someone like you that is crawling along at 25% of the speed limit. Not likely we will be on the same highway though with you in Mexico and me in Canada.
I don't think you need the math guys. I also drive in these conditions (greater Buffalo area, famous for such whiteouts) and have no problem with winter driving. I, for better or worse, often end up driving faster when its snowing like a bastard out. I think it's because I have little to no reference points due to the decreased visibility and cant tell exactly how fast Im going. BUT, in a total whiteout, when you literally cant see farther than maybe 1 or 2 car lengths ahead of you, driving at normal speeds is REALLY not a good idea. Erring on the side of caution is definately not one of my strong suits, as described in my earlier post on the matter, but the one and probably only event that forces me to slow down is definately 'not seeing'. Based on what I've seen on the road, not one other single person is going to drive just as fast or faster than normal in these conditions, and depending on how bad the visibility is, you are absolutely going to shorten someones rear end by 2 feet one of these days. I'm not sure what 'math answer' you were looking for, but if you like numbers go to any car site, from Department of Transportation to Car and Driver, and see the stopping distances given for an average (or specific) car, in increments of 5mph. This is a rough estimate which changes based on car model, tires condition/type, road conditions, etc, but the average car takes +/- 180 feet to stop from 55mph. I dont know and couldn't tell you if braking is linear or not, but when you don't know, guessing is your only option. (math guys, dont slay me) This equals roughly 3 feet per 1 mph. If you can only see 20 feet in front of you (which is a high estimate, most likely its 5 in our winter storms) and you're going 10-20mph faster than the guy you come up on, lets see.... 20 mph x 3 feet per mph ^ coefficient of braking drag / square root of distance to vehicle = car in front of you is now 2 feet shorter x (cost of vehicle insurance claim + cost of lawsuit from other driver) Its just really, really not a good idea. =)
Quote: FaceQuote: kenarman
I don't think you need the math guys. I also drive in these conditions (greater Buffalo area, famous for such whiteouts) and have no problem with winter driving. I, for better or worse, often end up driving faster when its snowing like a bastard out. I think it's because I have little to no reference points due to the decreased visibility and cant tell exactly how fast Im going. BUT, in a total whiteout, when you literally cant see farther than maybe 1 or 2 car lengths ahead of you, driving at normal speeds is REALLY not a good idea. Erring on the side of caution is definately not one of my strong suits, as described in my earlier post on the matter, but the one and probably only event that forces me to slow down is definately 'not seeing'. Based on what I've seen on the road, not one other single person is going to drive just as fast or faster than normal in these conditions, and depending on how bad the visibility is, you are absolutely going to shorten someones rear end by 2 feet one of these days. I'm not sure what 'math answer' you were looking for, but if you like numbers go to any car site, from Department of Transportation to Car and Driver, and see the stopping distances given for an average (or specific) car, in increments of 5mph. This is a rough estimate which changes based on car model, tires condition/type, road conditions, etc, but the average car takes +/- 180 feet to stop from 55mph. I dont know and couldn't tell you if braking is linear or not, but when you don't know, guessing is your only option. (math guys, dont slay me) This equals roughly 3 feet per 1 mph. If you can only see 20 feet in front of you (which is a high estimate, most likely its 5 in our winter storms) and you're going 10-20mph faster than the guy you come up on, lets see.... 20 mph x 3 feet per mph ^ coefficient of braking drag / square root of distance to vehicle = car in front of you is now 2 feet shorter x (cost of vehicle insurance claim + cost of lawsuit from other driver) Its just really, really not a good idea. =)
I must admit that some of my earlier comments were a little tongue in cheek but I do believe that when Nareed says that he is out on the highway doing way under 60 KPH (36 MPH) he is dangerous. Way under means that he is on a highway doing 20 MPH or less, that is much more dangerous than me driving at a higher speed that I am comfortable with.Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Quote: kenarmanThe major chain reaction accidents get started when someone hits their brakes and get rear ended. Brakes are never your friend when driving in bad weather.
"Driving in the fog is dangerous - much more dangerous than most people realize. Minimize your likelihood of getting into an accident by being aware of the hazards and knowing how to drive in foggy conditions.
1. Slow down. Most fog-related traffic fatalities occur because someone was driving too fast and couldn't stop in time to avoid a collision."
"6. Watch your speedometer. Fog scatters light and reduces the contrast between objects. Studies have found that the longer a driver is in fog, the faster he or she drives. Avoid falling into this dangerous trap."
There are 9 more suggestions, but you only need these..
But as for fog, you really have no choice but to slow down. Regardless of skills or vehicle capabilities, you cant drive if you cant see. And if some ass goes too fast and rear ends you, congrats on the new vehicle they just bought you.
I dont screw with anyone going less then ten over and even more liberal on the interstate- where you could catch people going 20 over all day and have enough work to do with them alone. my personal tolleranceis 10mph. i figure thats the point that your no longer crusing with traffic and just going up and down hills and getting tired of a long drive and come into knowing your just speeding and should be aware of it- if your not aware of it, ill help remind you.
in FL there is a speed minimum on the interstate of 50mph- and yes we have stopped people for going too slow, and your right that is a dangerous condition too.
As for as how each state or place handles speeding- its a personal thing, each officer here in FL anyways can use their own judgements. I know just as many that stop people at 5mph over as I do for 20mph over. I think the majority, the vast majority, find a cutoff point of 10 or 15. often depending on road type, activity, ect ect.
and sometimes when you get stopped and your the only car on the road at 2am- its not because your endangering others- its because ... your the only car on the road at 2am and your well, speeding. Ive been that guy- a small town officer pulled me over for doing 16 over on the interstate.. that one quarter of a mile of interstate that goes thru his town... I was a little ticked too.
Also- they use alot of those petty stops to find bigger problems. ;) If you had a car with a kilo of pot in the backseat youd not want to drive too fast over the limit either would you? :)
The point is, if you are going "with the traffic", your speedometer shows 90, and you just passed a cop, who did not blink, chances are, your speedometer isn't very accurate. Or, perhaps, you put too much air into your tires.
Now, I have been pulled for speeding under 10 mph several times, and every time I was able to get rid of the ticket in court by arguing that neither the radar nor my speedometer are capable of measuring speed with precision better than 10%, so there is no way to tell for certain I really was speeding, and had a way of knowing it.
Quote: weaselmanI remember reading somewhere that car manufacturers routinely calibrate speedometers to read somewhat higher than the actual speed as much as 15-18%. This is because there are a lot of factors outside of their control, that affect the accuracy. For example, if your tire pressure is low, it lowers the speedometer reading. Also, if the speedometer goes out of calibration and starts showing speeds significantly lower than the real value, the manufacturer could potentially be sued for liability in case of an accident or even a speeding ticket. So, they play it safe, and make the speedo readings a bit higher to begin with.
This is not true. Car magazines show (or used to) the indicated vs actual speed and I never remember it being more than 1 mpg off. Tire pressure will not signifigantly affect the indicated speed. What will is changing the size of tire. When I learned to drive we had a LTD wagon that Ford decided should have 14" wheels standard, ridiculous for such a large car. Most were upgraded to 15" but we had the 14". The speedo was calibratred for 14" and my mother said we were going too fast. I showed the speedo was set at a perfect 55mph, limit for the time. Pittsburgh to Detroit with a 15 min stop for gas showed an average speed of 57 mph. I blamed the calculation on failing algebra and it was almost forgotton.
A cop in OH cleared the lane by giving me a quick blip of the siren. I think he ignored it because OH raised the limit to 65 mph a week later. But those 14" tires made the calibration go off. Any other car I have been in, other than ab old piece of junk with a broken everything, was pretty right on.
Fuel guages, OTOH, are designed to show less fuel the lower they go.
Quote: kenarmanI must admit that some of my earlier comments were a little tongue in cheek but I do believe that when Nareed says that he is out on the highway doing way under 60 KPH (36 MPH) he is dangerous. Way under means that he is on a highway doing 20 MPH or less, that is much more dangerous than me driving at a higher speed that I am comfortable with.
A speed of 60 kph on the highway would be dangerous under normal conditions. And at that not so dangerous since trailers and heavy trucks do less than that on the slow lane anyway.
But I won't argue with you. I'll just tell you what I tell other reckless drivers: you can kill yourself however you want, just do it on your own time.
Quote: NareedA speed of 60 kph on the highway would be dangerous under normal conditions. And at that not so dangerous since trailers and heavy trucks do less than that on the slow lane anyway.
But I won't argue with you. I'll just tell you what I tell other reckless drivers: you can kill yourself however you want, just do it on your own time.
Hi Kenarman, welcome to the Nareed "I hate you because you don't agree with me list." We have monthly meetings at 16:00 the second thursday at "Bugsy's Bar" in the Flamingo. Hope to see you there. We may soon have to move since the size of the group seems to grow daily.
Quote: FaceOn the QEW in Ontario tho, holy smokes. I was doing 90mph and getting passed on both sides. Mini vans, semi trucks, RCMP, it was crazy. Going 62 or whatever the hell it is would have caused everyone to die.
You're exaggerating here. I've basically travelled the QEW all of my life and the most you can get away with there without a speeding ticket is 130km/h in an 100 zone which is about 81 mph. Trucks now have limiters in Ontario at 110kph. 90mph would get you pulled over and there are not that many people going that fast. It's the OPP in Ontario, not the RCMP.
True story... I was driving the 190 between Buffalo and Queenston about 5 years back and was doing 77 in a 65 and got stopped. The cop pulled me over, looked at my driver's license, gave me a chuckle and said that Canadians were used to going alot faster than that on the 401 and let me off.
1) The limit on interstates and most other divided highways is generally 65.
2) In PA, officers are not allowed to ticket for less than 10 over. In other words, no ticket for 74. And even more interestingly, no ticket for 44 in a 35.
3) Radar is only allowed for state police; local police use VASCAR. (For those unfamiliar, VASCAR is the painted lines on the road and timing devices.)
4) On interstates, keep it under 80. This past fall, I was given a warning for going 82, and the officer flat out told me that almost no officer would ticket a speeder for 79, there are just too many to catch at 80 and up to mess with the smaller ones. (I got lucky with the warning. But I have a knack for that sort of thing.)
Quote: weaselmanI remember reading somewhere that car manufacturers routinely calibrate speedometers to read somewhat higher than the actual speed as much as 15-18%. This is because there are a lot of factors outside of their control, that affect the accuracy.
I have a new car and also a separate Satellite speedo' (which I was told was more accurate) and my dash speedometer always reads 2/3 mph faster than my actual speed. It's a Mazda so not sure if that is a manufacturer that errs on the safe side.
Quote: NareedA speed of 60 kph on the highway would be dangerous under normal conditions. And at that not so dangerous since trailers and heavy trucks do less than that on the slow lane anyway.
Every single highway, at least in Mexico, has some big rigs and heavy trucks that do less than 40 kph. In some parts a lot less. It's about their limit given the loads they carry. Mostly they stick to the right-most lane, which is the slow speed lane, and everyone know better than to try to go fast in this lane.
Quote:But I won't argue with you. I'll just tell you what I tell other reckless drivers: you can kill yourself however you want, just do it on your own time.
Under reduced visibility, you're supposed to reduce your speed given the shorter reaction time available in the case of obstructions, accidents, and even slow vehicles. it's not uncommon for a truck or car to get out of its lane in fog, even though the lane markers are easily visible even in fog. In fact there are signs on the areas most prone to fog warning to reduce speed to 70 kph in fog or heavy rain. Speeding up to normal speeds under such conditions is, in my view, reckless and dangerous to the point that it might be considered suicidal.
I hope this clears things up.
Quote: SwitchI have a new car and also a separate Satellite speedo' (which I was told was more accurate) and my dash speedometer always reads 2/3 mph faster than my actual speed. It's a Mazda so not sure if that is a manufacturer that errs on the safe side.
My Mazda also reads about 2/3 mph faster than what my Garmin, and GPS on my phone say.
