Can we please have, dare i say, a "fantasy" board to discuss "rigged" games?
My point is, there is not even a topic to entertain our minds about the possibilities, or even the specific examples of casino cheating, to the point where it makes me even more suspicious. How are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
Quote: heatmapI mean i feel like i dont have a home. I want to just say the dumbest, craziest stuff about what I think I am seeing, and its fun watching people say that it can't be done and some of the stuff they say in responses actually make real world sense, but I truly believe we have been mislead and think many others do as well. Can we please have some kind of safe space, where we can simply "imagine" or assume that games can be "rigged" as most people call it, and speak as if it is true? I am not saying that we should silence the people who actually KNOW why something is not true, but the lack of citations, or even any kind of common sense examples such as math, in response to most accusations, only hinder the person trying to express themselves and try to describe what they are seeing themselves. The true point of the poster, whatever cheating they are accusing, is being buried within the same, "the casino wouldnt do that" responses.
My point is, there is not even a topic to entertain our minds about the possibilities, or even the specific examples of casino cheating, to the point where it makes me even more suspicious. How are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
Isn’t this what ZenKings Corner was supposed to be?
Quote: heatmapHow are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
We only cheat ZenKing. The rest of you are all safe.
There will be no safe space for any BS.
If you have legitimate gripe get some real data and post.it up.
If the person seems credible and the data seems.solid then I have no doubt Mike and others will.investigate.
I have no doubt there are rare situations something doesn't add up. Unfortunately, any legitimate claims.get lost among all the people cying wolf.
Quote: AxelWolf
If you have legitimate gripe get some real data and post.it up.
i ask you then how? as you are not allowed any kind of device in any casinos, as its a felony usually. recording is illegal unless you ask first im guessing.
There is a whole sub-forum for betting systems - you could probably establish a fantasy thread there, but you're still going to get math and reality thrown at you.
And there are other forums with more sympathetic or credulous members...not throwing you out, but you won't be left in peace with your theories here.
Quote: AxelWolfthe original goal of this site was to give math, facts, logic, good information
No. the goal of the site is to promote gambling for profit with the underlying assumption that gambling is a happy, healthy activity.
the facts, math and logic and good information are good - but mostly relate to getting the best bets so that less money will be lost assuming a gambler plays for the same amount of time and bets the same amount as a person who does not have knowledge of this information
if the knowledgeable gambler, not an AP, but he or she knows the bets with the lowest HA, plays for a longer amount of time than a gambler who is ignorant of or doesn't care which bets carry the lowest HA then he or she may very well end up losing more than the ignorant gambler and he may end up spending considerably more time in casinos - which is only a good thing if you happen to view gambling as a happy, healthy activity.
I agree the casino and gaming being the only two parties for things like this, isn't working from the gambler's perspective. The casinos have a trade group, I think maybe the customers should also have one and also be able to be more involved at the casino level, to be sure the unthinkable isn't somehow reality when proven old myths are no longer myths. The people cannot complain if they don't actually know there are things to gripe about. From my experience, gaming agents are idiots, I don't think most of them are even capable of doing their jobs the way they need to be done. Having real people that are obsessed with casinos to investigate and ask for investigations are needed.Quote: heatmapI mean i feel like i dont have a home. I want to just say the dumbest, craziest stuff about what I think I am seeing, and its fun watching people say that it can't be done and some of the stuff they say in responses actually make real world sense, but I truly believe we have been mislead and think many others do as well. Can we please have some kind of safe space, where we can simply "imagine" or assume that games can be "rigged" as most people call it, and speak as if it is true? I am not saying that we should silence the people who actually KNOW why something is not true, but the lack of citations, or even any kind of common sense examples such as math, in response to most accusations, only hinder the person trying to express themselves and try to describe what they are seeing themselves. The true point of the poster, whatever cheating they are accusing, is being buried within the same, "the casino wouldnt do that" responses.
My point is, there is not even a topic to entertain our minds about the possibilities, or even the specific examples of casino cheating, to the point where it makes me even more suspicious. How are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
some have been killed while exposing 'casino cheating'Quote: heatmapor even the specific examples of casino cheating, to the point where it makes me even more suspicious. How are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
is it worth it?
The American Coin caper comes to mind (in the 1980s)
that was then, could still be now
one slot vender had rigged the Royal Flush jackpots. not all that should have hit, did.
The NGC knew something was not right but 3 years of watching, they could not find the smoking gun.
then a whistle blower came forward to 'tell all he knew' about the company he rigged the video poker machines. before trial, he caught a bullet in his head outside his house and died.
not worth the effort for that guy.
he should have gone directly to the NGC and then turned in the company AFTER he rigged the code, and why he did that? who knows.
He be dead and long gone now.
I read about it in a book (can get online) and never remember if the person who pulled the trigger was ever caught or ratted on.
this was way before the Ronald Dale Harris experience
it that the stuff you are after?
Quote: onenickelmiracleFrom my experience, gaming agents are idiots, I don't think most of them are even capable of doing their jobs the way they need to be done.
If compartmentalization within businesses didn't exist I might believe most were stupid, and I would not say that most are, and I might call it a mix of my first guess plus what I'll call blissfully ignorant. Plus their employer will fire them, but I have also talked to many dealers who claim that they do not believe what they are seeing is real most of the time, and they openly will admit that at the table. Maybe they are agreeing with me as to not argue and get more tips, but who knows.
I also will continue to say that I do not think any of the casinos are "cheating" any more, as in my opinion the lack of very specific laws about what types of random number generators can and can not be used are a big problem - at least in PA I cant find specific laws about how the random numbers should be generated - and why would they?
Quote: 7craps
He be dead and long gone now.
Ronald Dale Harris
very odd but i cant find anything about his death anywhere online and wikipedia doesnt contain the word death. It says he served his time and is on the "blacklist" or something
Ron Harris is alive and doing well. (look how much time he served for his ways compared to some that cheat a casino for $1000 and get 10+ years in jail. RD Harris was an insider and knew too much)Quote: heatmapvery odd but i cant find anything about his death anywhere online and wikipedia doesnt contain the word death. It says he served his time and is on the "blacklist" or something
That is another story from the 1990s, different from the American Coin video poker story from the 1980s into the 1990s.
Larry Volk was killed for taking part in that, blowing the whistle so-to-speak against himself and the company he worked for.
the book is titled
"License to Steal: Nevada's Gaming Control System in the Megaresort Age"
By Jeff Burbank
Google preview here
Google preview
I am 100% certain that Nevada and the NGC (and all casinos) want that story to disappear
and would probably discredit everything known about it.
not much good came from those times (in Nevada casinos and lessons to be learned)
just my opinion as usual
https://lasvegassun.com/news/1999/sep/23/two-plead-guilty-in-murder-for-hire-case/
Thursday, Sept. 23, 1999 | 11:11 a.m.
"Two people pleaded guilty this morning in the murder for hire of a slot machine company's computer programmer, who had admitted he rigged the devices for his bosses.
Soni Beckman, 57, and Vito Bruno, 40, agreed to the deals that will give them a chance at probation rather than stand trial on murder charges that could have put them in prison for the rest of their lives.
The admitted killer, David Lemons, had named the pair as those who hired him and helped him murder Larry Volk, the star witness in a slot-fixing case against the American Coin Company owners."
from that article, not much justice was served
I don't buy into small scale cheats by the casinos as there is nothing to gain. It is far more likely in my opinion for players to collude with dealers and for individual employees to steal rather than have the casino to do tricks in order to secure a few more dollars.
I could see large scale cheats however, but on a much higher level than what you see on the gaming floor. Things like manipulating an income statement, selling customer information illegally are likely. But it wouldn't surprise me to see things like large scale Video poker or slot cheats either but it would be nothing that low level employees on a gaming floor would know about.
Quote: heatmapI mean i feel like i dont have a home. I want to just say the dumbest, craziest stuff about what I think I am seeing, and its fun watching people say that it can't be done and some of the stuff they say in responses actually make real world sense, but I truly believe we have been mislead and think many others do as well. Can we please have some kind of safe space, where we can simply "imagine" or assume that games can be "rigged" as most people call it, and speak as if it is true? I am not saying that we should silence the people who actually KNOW why something is not true, but the lack of citations, or even any kind of common sense examples such as math, in response to most accusations, only hinder the person trying to express themselves and try to describe what they are seeing themselves. The true point of the poster, whatever cheating they are accusing, is being buried within the same, "the casino wouldnt do that" responses.
My point is, there is not even a topic to entertain our minds about the possibilities, or even the specific examples of casino cheating, to the point where it makes me even more suspicious. How are we supposed to know, or even be able to identify whether or not a casino, or casino employee is cheating if the information is hidden within all of the other topics?
This post officially cracks the top 10 worst for 2018. Congratulations on winning an Wizzy.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13This post officially cracks the top 10 worst for 2018. Congratulations on winning an Wizzy.
I
ZCore13
Meh. I've posted way worse. I once posted a thread so incredibly weird that it was completely deleted in like one hour presumably to save me embarrassment. ;) His OP seems in line with what Zenking would say so it's really not at all too out there.
Quote: NathanMeh. I've posted way worse. I once posted a thread so incredibly weird that it was completely deleted in like one hour presumably to save me embarrassment. ;) His OP seems in line with what Zenking would say so it's really not at all too out there.
Really? Here you are in someone else's thread, bragging about trolling the forum to the point we had to delete your thread. Not just one, either.
And no, it was not deleted "to save you embarrassment". It was an apparently worthless attempt to remove some of your garbage.
It's not all about you, no matter how hard you try.
Go back to your corner. Stay there. Seriously.
Im not saying that I whole heartedly believe the casinos cheat, but it sure as heck would not surprise me if we found out one day that any game was rigged. I have heard whispers from some credible sources that a major investigation on dice manufacturers is going on. Im not saying yay or nay, but it wouldn't surprise me. This is why you need to 'hit n run'! ha
Quote: WatchMeWinI do not find the thought of 'any' establishment, regardless if they are a publicly traded company, the government or a mob run organization.... the latter two could be construed as the same, to have cheaters and / or a rigged system to be an egregious thought. Ive always said that when big money is involved I would not rule out any possibilities of cheating. Just because one is not caught doesn't mean that they haven't cheated. Do we always need to be so naive to believe everything is as it appears or as people want it to appear to be ... until they are caught in the scandal or lie?
Im not saying that I whole heartedly believe the casinos cheat, but it sure as heck would not surprise me if we found out one day that any game was rigged. I have heard whispers from some credible sources that a major investigation on dice manufacturers is going on. Im not saying yay or nay, but it wouldn't surprise me. This is why you need to 'hit n run'! ha
How about a $100 bet that there is never any evidence provided that links a casino dice manufacturer to any type of rigged dice scandal?
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13How about a $100 bet that there is never any evidence provided that links a casino dice manufacturer to any type of rigged dice scandal?
ZCore13
Are you prepared to wait up to 20 plus years for the outcome? lol Look, Im not saying it happens or doesn't... Im just saying it wouldn't surprise me. I think it would be very difficult to prove such a case as the individuals would need to have strong evidence , and it would be very difficult to prove since the casinos would basically kill someone if they tried to steal dice from the tables for evidence.
no bet.
Quote: Zcore13How about a $100 bet that there is never any evidence provided that links a casino dice manufacturer to any type of rigged dice scandal?
ZCore13
im not taking the bet but ill end it for you and show you how in the 50s they had precision dice that were sold by a "manufacturer" which specifically says they are weighted in slightly different ways. challenge accepted ill be back soon.
Quote: lilredroosterwith the underlying assumption that gambling is a happy, healthy activity.
.
So, at least a certain level of fantasy is permitted.
Quote: heatmapAnnd im back this is from my own personal archives so they will have to come get me and deal with my bigger dead man switch if they want to stop me
Very interesting. Thanks for the Post.
If they could create that years ago without the technology we have today, imagine what goes on behind the scenes that we don't know.
I know for a fact that the bubble machines have magnets in the dice and floor... So it's very conceivable that they could do it with regular dice craps game. Even more the reason why I like to hit and run very quickly and not stick around... Just in case there was shady activity with the dice. And maybe that's why my method is the best winning method
Quote: heatmap
I know for a fact that the bubble machines have magnets in the dice and floor...
What is your source for this ?
FYI You quoted the wrong person. I too would like to know what evidence he has.Quote: FCBLComishWhat is your source for this ?
Quote: heatmapAnnd im back this is from my own personal archives so they will have to come get me and deal with my bigger dead man switch if they want to stop me
I think I bought a nuclear sub from these people back in the day. Some onion gum and X-Ray spec as well.
Quote: FCBLComishWhat is your source for this ?
Before my God, I might not this believe
Without the sensible and true avouch
Of mine own eyes..
Quote: WatchMeWinBefore my God, I might not this believe
Without the sensible and true avouch
Of mine own eyes..
So, you SAW magnets in the dice and on the floor of the machine???
Quote: FCBLComishSo, you SAW magnets in the dice and on the floor of the machine???
What does 'beware, i work for the dark side... we have cookies' mean? You work for the casinos.. or want people to believe you work for casinos.
I see nothing.
I hear nothing.
I know nothing.
Quote: WatchMeWinIf anyone wants to find out for themselves whether or not the bubble craps machines have some type of magnets in them, just go watch the dice land for a while and you decide for yourself what you have witnessed.
I’m going to attempt to explain it by quoting GLI, at least this is what I think is happening. There is something - and someone tell me if I’m wrong - called cycling and if the numbers generated are not random enough they can be regenerated. I will also tell you I do not have the slightest idea of when that process happens or if it happens on craps.
Let say for argument sake they do have magnets. Why not use this information to your advantage?Quote: WatchMeWinIf anyone wants to find out for themselves whether or not the bubble craps machines have some type of magnets in them, just go watch the dice land for a while and you decide for yourself what you have witnessed.
Quote: AxelWolfLet say for argument sake they do have magnets. Why not use this information to your advantage?
Firstly, I don't play electronic games. However, I have been in NY and FL a couple of years ago and they only had the Bubble craps, so I played a little. I would tend to believe that the dice in the bubble (with the camera and magnets) are in sync with the 10 plus stations that are playing the machine on each roll. So if you were to try to get an advantage, I would presume that you need to monitor all of the players at the station to see where the heavy action is and then bet against it. This is just my theory. Again, not my thing... but I absolutely know that the dice on many occasions were in a set position and spun out of it miraculously bringing alternate numbers .
Quote: WatchMeWinIm sure it is written in the bylaws somewhere that the electronic craps games are considered similar to the class as slots and there is a certain payout allowed, therefore they can get away with altering the dice and payouts. That would make sense.
That's false, as is most of your information. I cant imagine just saying stuff on a public forum with no knowledge or information that it's true. I guess that's a benefit of screen names.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13That's false, as is most of your information. I cant imagine just saying stuff on a public forum with no knowledge or information that it's true. I guess that's a benefit of screen names.
ZCore13
Tell me how i'm wrong. The electronic craps part is my theory... my opinion. Other electronic games have controlled pay outs. How is it far fetched to believe that the electronic craps is any different?
btw, your screen name is cute too!
Quote: WatchMeWinTell me how i'm wrong. The electronic craps part is my theory... my opinion. Other electronic games have controlled pay outs. How is it far fetched to believe that the electronic craps is any different?
btw, your screen name is cute too!
Then don't start an opinion or theory with "I'm sure...", because you're not and you're incorrect. Electronic craps is the same as live craps, with the payout odds on bets determining the house edge, not any manipulation of the dice. There are o magnets and no predetermined rolls in bubble craps. I've read the specs and seen the variable (payout) settings.
ZCore13
position how long do you think they will last after people
playing this see that shocking event happen over & over?
Quote: rainmanIf these machines manipulate the dice after they come to a set
position how long do you think they will last after people
playing this see that shocking event happen over & over?
We are talking about gamblers bro. They dont care... they will continue to play and hope. Just about everyone I talked to said the same thing... but they kept on playing... hoping... dreaming... Unfortunately, they dont have live craps in many states so they must resort to that bogus game.
Quote: Zcore13Then don't start an opinion or theory with "I'm sure...", because you're not and you're incorrect. Electronic craps is the same as live craps, with the payout odds on bets determining the house edge, not any manipulation of the dice. There are o magnets and no predetermined rolls in bubble craps. I've read the specs and seen the variable (payout) settings.
ZCore13
Naive....
Quote: WatchMeWinNaive....
I assume you are talking about yourself. Only one of us has seen the specs and par sheet on one. Only one of us has set the hold percentage based on which payouts are chosen. Only one of us has been a slot department director.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I assume you are talking about yourself. Only one of us has seen the specs and par sheet on one. Only one of us has set the hold percentage based on which payouts are chosen. Only one of us has been a slot department director.
ZCore13
You set the hold percentage on the bubble craps?
I don’t believe casinos manipulate bubble craps for their advantage.
Quote: FinsRuleI believe that bubble craps may not be completely random.
I don’t believe casinos manipulate bubble craps for their advantage.
Care to elaborate please...
If you believe that bubble craps is not completely random, then it means that it is somehow controlled. If it is somehow controlled, it must be by the manufactures/casinos. If it is controlled by the m/c , then they must have it for an advantage.
Quote: WatchMeWinI know for a fact that the bubble machines have magnets in the dice and floor...
Quote: Zcore13There are no magnets and no predetermined rolls in bubble craps.
How is it possible that it is both a fact that there are magnets and at the same time there are no magnets. This must be the most mind-boggling paradox any human has ever faced
Quote: TomGHow is it possible that it is both a fact that there are magnets and at the same time there are no magnets. This must be the most mind-boggling paradox any human has ever faced
Resolved. Bubble Craps like any sophisticated electronic device has magnets in it to make it all work. The magnets do not affect the randomness of the dice rolls.
You’re welcome.
Quote: WatchMeWinNaive....
Personal insult. Per the Martingale policy -- two-month suspension.
Quote: WatchMeWinCare to elaborate please...
If you believe that bubble craps is not completely random, then it means that it is somehow controlled. If it is somehow controlled, it must be by the manufactures/casinos. If it is controlled by the m/c , then they must have it for an advantage.
I think one roll has a slight affect on the next roll. I don’t think it’s controlled.
