Speaking of college BB...

there is an injustice in the top 10 rankings that I a having a problem with.

First let me disclose that I am a Villanova fan. Attended many games when I lived back in Philly. Villanova has had a fine season at 24-3 in the weakened Big East. But, they are overrated IMO. Their 3 losses have been blow outs by 18 points, 21 points an 28 points. They have faced 4 top 25 teams. Syracuse 18 point loss, Creighton twice, losses of 21 and 28 points and an early season 3 point win over Kansas in November in the Bahamas holiday tournament. (Kansas is playing much better now than they were back then).

So here is my issue: Nova is ranked #8, one spot ahead of Creighton which has a very similar 23-4 record. But of course Creighton beat Nova by more than 20 points TWICE. Shouldn't Creighton be ranked in front of Nova, based on similar records and not one but two blowout wins over them? I think so.

Maybe, but Nova's losses are to ranked teams. Creighton got beaten by San Jose, George Washington, and Providence (Their other loss being San Diego which is more understandable)

Quote: kewlj

there is an injustice in the top 10 rankings that I a having a problem with.

First let me disclose that I am a Villanova fan. Attended many games when I lived back in Philly. Villanova has had a fine season at 24-3 in the weakened Big East. But, they are overrated IMO. Their 3 losses have been blow outs by 18 points, 21 points an 28 points. They have faced 4 top 25 teams. Syracuse 18 point loss, Creighton twice, losses of 21 and 28 points and an early season 3 point win over Kansas in November in the Bahamas holiday tournament. (Kansas is playing much better now than they were back then).

So here is my issue: Nova is ranked #8, one spot ahead of Creighton which has a very similar 23-4 record. But of course Creighton beat Nova by more than 20 points TWICE. Shouldn't Creighton be ranked in front of Nova, based on similar records and not one but two blowout wins over them? I think so.

FWIW, as a Creighton alumni, Creighton is deLIGHTed to crack the top 10 in all polls. I think your point is well taken with the double blowout on Nova, there should be some consideration for the head-to-head records that moves Creighton up above both. (the NCAA's RPI ratings do rank both higher than the polls, giving Creighton 7th and Nova 4th. Perhaps this is what they were considering in part when ranking Nova above Creighton?) Anyway, Creighton could not be happier to be in Nova's good company going forward. Should be an interesting tournament.

Quote: geoff

Maybe, but Nova's losses are to ranked teams. Creighton got beaten by San Jose, George Washington, and Providence (Their other loss being San Diego which is more understandable)

It was not San Jose that they lost to but rather St Johns, who is not bad at 18-11. George Washington (20-7) and Providence (18-10) not horrible teams either. Probably all on the 'bubble' currently.

But yes, Creighton should have won those games. I saw Creighton come into Villanova and hit their first 10 shots, incredibly, all of them 3-pointers an take a 30-6 lead before the first TV timeout 4 minutes into the game. Hard for me to imagine them losing to the teams mentioned. lol

It was funny, Beachbumbabs, I was thinking that "we" were going to show Creighton that they weren't in the rinky dinky league any more....kind of a welcome to the big league moment. A few minutes later and I was channel surfing. lol

Rankings (and RPI) are better surrogates for a team's body of work than who would beat who head to head. While in the case of two teams which have played head to head recently, we could use those results to place one over another, utilizing that process to any substantial extent will lead to nonsensical results and forced contradictions (due to the number of upsets in the CBB). Below is the Nitty Grity report for each team.

RK	TEAM	RPI	D-1 W-L	SOS	NCRPI	NCSS	CFRPI	CFSS	1-25	26-50	51-100	L12	LRPI	OFFQ	DEFQ	ASM
8/9	Villanova	.6589	24-3	24	5	44	8	59	1-3	2-0	9-0	10-2	5	9.8	5.1	15.0
9/10	Creighton	.6461	23-4	32	31	46	6	67	2-1	3-1	6-2	10-2	8	11.7	4.8	16.5

Their bodies of work are VERY similar with the games against each other included. However Vill's only other loss was the SYR, whereas Crei has some much weaker losses (a 3-4 seed, a 7-8 seed, and 2 bubble teams). That by itself could be a decent argument for Vill over Crei ("Nova has played a better schedule, and had a better record," essentially RPI). Further, if we remove those two H2H games from both teams then Nova has a WAY better resume. However, one can't realistically do that since those have been cornerstone games for each team. All in all, I think it is close, there may be some "old money vs. new money" bias in the polls, but neither team can feel they are maligned.

tl;dr They have very similar resumes
Nova has 3 losses: @SYR, @Crei, Crei (all elite teams)
Crei has 4 losses: home to a good tourney team, home to an average tourney team, and at two bubble teams

Quote: beachbumbabs

FWIW, as a Creighton alumni, Creighton is deLIGHTed to crack the top 10 in all polls....

Enjoy this run while it lasts... then good luck in your new Big East conference... traitor...

(Said that of a Bradley alum)

As far as Creighton vs. Villanova, I tend to agree that if you win both games in the season, you should be ranked higher, but College Basketball teams are ranked more fairly than College Football. The entire picture comes into play. And let's face it, Creighton will choke in the Round of 32; Villanova has a better shot of lasting longer.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Enjoy this run while it lasts... then good luck in your new Big East conference... traitor...

(Said that of a Bradley alum)

As far as Creighton vs. Villanova, I tend to agree that if you win both games in the season, you should be ranked higher, but College Basketball teams are ranked more fairly than College Football. The entire picture comes into play. And let's face it, Creighton will choke in the Round of 32; Villanova has a better shot of lasting longer.

It isn't just that Creighton WON both games, but they CRUSHED Nova TWICE. They came to Villanova and won by 28! and then, for those of us that were in denial and thought maybe that first game was a mirage, they spanked Nova by 21 in the second game. When you are comparing two teams with similar records, and they have played heads up twice with one team crushing the other both times, that should be the end of the comparison. If nothing else, Creighton deserves to be one spot better than Nova...they earned it on the court.

Quote: beachbumbabs

FWIW, as a Creighton alumni,...

Aww Babs, I like gals from Omaha. :)


Go Hawkeyes

Quote: kewlj

there is an injustice in the top 10 rankings that I a having a problem with.

First let me disclose that I am a Villanova fan. Attended many games when I lived back in Philly. Villanova has had a fine season at 24-3 in the weakened Big East. But, they are overrated IMO. Their 3 losses have been blow outs by 18 points, 21 points an 28 points. They have faced 4 top 25 teams. Syracuse 18 point loss, Creighton twice, losses of 21 and 28 points and an early season 3 point win over Kansas in November in the Bahamas holiday tournament. (Kansas is playing much better now than they were back then).

So here is my issue: Nova is ranked #8, one spot ahead of Creighton which has a very similar 23-4 record. But of course Creighton beat Nova by more than 20 points TWICE. Shouldn't Creighton be ranked in front of Nova, based on similar records and not one but two blowout wins over them? I think so.

That sounds reasonable. And San Diego State should still be ranked ahead of both of them considering they beat Creighton and Kansas at Kansas. They lost two tough road games one played at 7,000 feet and the other at The Pit in New Mexico at 5,000 feet. Most people aren't aware of just how tough the Mountain West travel schedule is - it's brutal!