bob dancer - great player or ruins it for everyone

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August 15th, 2013 at 9:24:13 PM permalink

Quote: strictlyAP
where does he play?>

South Point

Palms

AxelWolf

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August 16th, 2013 at 2:32:19 AM permalink

Quote: reno
Which was more bothersome: that machines were being removed, or that players' cards were being confiscated?

From an objective math standpoint, this promotion was obviously an EV positive bet. But it's a judgement call to measure Revel's habit of screwing things up. Revel had such a lousy reputation among players long before this promotion was announced.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. To me it sounds like they are so messed up that without outside help they may have never realize they were making a mistake until after people picked up their free play.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

mickeycrimm

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August 16th, 2013 at 6:19:00 AM permalink

Bob and I didn't start out to be internet friends. When I joined vpFREE about 7 years ago he was continually bashing Jean Scott and Dan Paymar. I took him to task for it. I even called him insolent. Jean Scott has always been a player's advocate and nothing but. In the late nineties Dan Paymar's book "The Best of Video Poker Times" was the absolute best book on the market for making money in video poker. I made a lot of money because of that book. Bob knocked off the bashing and slowly but surely we became internet friends. I've even defended him occasionally in the past. But I can't defend him over his consulting with Revel.

Bob made a big deal of the Revel promo on vpFREE, Videopoker.com, his column, and on his radio show. Then turned right around and consulted with Revel. This is playing too much God. Has Bob ever gotten a mailer from a casino, recognized that it was highly lucrative, then called the casino and said "If you don't disqualify your high denom machines I'm going to crush you?" I don't think so. But this is exactly what he did to other high limit AP's. Whether he was the cause or not is irrelevant. It's the attempt he made that counts. And he admittedly made the attempt. When the rumor that a high profile pro was consulting with Revel hit the Revel thread on this site, Shack immediately responded that he was not involved and reiterated his opinion that Revel management was incompetent. This left Bob standing there looking like the cat that ate the canary. I think that's the only reason he admitted to consulting with Revel. I don't think his consulting was initially intended to be made public.

One of the things I love about my lifestyle, gambling for a living, is I make money with no strings attached. I'm beholden to no one. I'm the only one who get's to make up my mind on any issue. I get to call the shots like I see them. Bob, if you are lurking this site, I'm sorry but I can't defend you on this issue. I think you were wrong.

"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

mickeycrimm

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August 16th, 2013 at 6:40:08 AM permalink

Bob is good friends with Michael Gaughan so outing him at South Point won't do anything.

"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

teddys

teddys

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August 16th, 2013 at 8:23:31 AM permalink

Quote: mickeycrimm
Bob is good friends with Michael Gaughan so outing him at South Point won't do anything.

True. Gaughan even offered to let Dancer stay as long as he wanted at the South Point when Bob was going through his divorce. Interesting relationship. (FWIW, I think Gaughan is awesome. Listen to his interview on GWAE-- It's great.)

I have utmost respect for Dancer and the work he puts into his game and educating others about the game. But there is something about his attitude and some of the stuff he does that rubs people the wrong way at times. This is certainly one of these times.

"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4

JIMMYFOCKER

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August 16th, 2013 at 11:53:00 AM permalink

When did he go through divorce?

rxwine

rxwine

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August 16th, 2013 at 12:14:46 PM permalink

Does anyone else do VP classes/seminars in the casinos? Not too long after Eastside Cannery opened he did classes there for about a week. Right after they pulled the 8 bank of FPDW. Granted it was only nickel, but why does it seem not a coincidence?

Can you think of any business where they let some outsider sit inside the door and tell the customer how you can make money off the business? Yeah, sometimes a business highlights a bargain, but I believe AP, is more akin to showing you how to use a bank without contributing any money to the banks bottom line. At least that would be the sales line.

OR, you could just consider the "outsider" can only be an "insider". This would make more sense, wouldn't it?

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.

Keyser

Keyser

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August 16th, 2013 at 12:38:10 PM permalink

I'm amused that anyone is upset over Bob Dancer.

After all, do you guys know where you're posting? Your posting here, on the Wizard's forum.

This is NOT some place where you want to teach people how to win using your latest AP methods. Far from it.

There are several different people on this board, including the Wizard, that are linked to casino management, risk consultants, etc....

Every last one of them, will, if it's in their best interest, share whatever you choose to post on this forum. It's not that they are neccessarily being shifty, it's just that it's part of their job. It's what they do.

-Keyser

gpac1377

gpac1377

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August 16th, 2013 at 12:53:16 PM permalink

Quote: JIMMYFOCKER
When did he go through divorce?

Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.

"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."

treetopbuddy

treetopbuddy

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August 16th, 2013 at 1:21:11 PM permalink

Quote: gpac1377
Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.

Really? The smell of cigarette smoke breaks up the marriage? Allrightythen..

Each day is better than the next

AxelWolf

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August 16th, 2013 at 2:01:10 PM permalink

His marriage has nothing to do with this there's a thread that talks all about it.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Ibeatyouraces

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August 16th, 2013 at 2:04:05 PM permalink

deleted

DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

djatc

djatc

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August 16th, 2013 at 4:05:33 PM permalink

You take the means to put food on the table for some and they get very upset.

"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous

nmacgre

nmacgre

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August 16th, 2013 at 5:07:14 PM permalink

Quote: reno
Interesting double standard. When Michael Shackleford was helping the Venetian make money, we all said congrats (myself included). But if Bob Dancer helps the South Point make money, he's a traitor.

Ah yes, but the Wizard and Bob Dancer are friends and occasional radio co-hosts, so how do we know the Wizard isn't in on the Revel conspiracy? Guilt by association.

The paranoia around here really stinks.

Thanks for the wallpaper. And I'm not talking for my desktop, I mean for my wizard room (aka my living room).

mickeycrimm

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August 18th, 2013 at 9:21:23 PM permalink

Quote: Ibeatyouraces
The voting is overwhelming. Seems like he's picked up a few enemies.

I just got around to listening to the July 11th Gambling With An Edge where Bob admits to contacting a "friend" of his "Deep Throat" who is "friends with Revel management" and voicing his concerns about Revel getting crushed by high limit pros on the $25 video poker. Another thing Bob admitted to was he has been trying to get hired as a consultant by Revel since they opened. Bob's ratting out the high denom video poker sure looks to me like he was trying to prove his worth to them. But here is the funny part. Bob opened the show talking about reports that players were being thrown off the promotion. He suggested that those players go to the media or hire an attorney. But then he goes on to say "but little of that is happening because it is likely that the players are not telling the whole story." But then the attorney, Robert Nersessian comes on the show. If you don't know who he is then google him. He's the go to guy if you want to sue a casino in Nevada. Munchkin asked Nersessian if he had been contacted by player's from the Revel promo. Here's Nersessian's response "Absolutely. The phone has been ringing off the hook. I'm not a New Jersey lawyer but there are New Jersey lawyer's interested in the case. I will likely be a consultant to them if and when a case goes forward. Revel has some real issues here and I'm specifically referencing the Uston case."

I'm LMAO! Bob did his best to play it down but then Nersessian came on and blew him out of the water.

"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

strictlyAP

strictlyAP

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August 19th, 2013 at 12:45:16 PM permalink

he should blow him out of the water, hat he did to people who play at the revel is insanity

The bet will not be paid- not now not ever

EvenBob

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:16:40 PM permalink

I love this thread. I accuse casinos of being predatory
and everybody disagrees with me. Yet when you get
a chance to be the predators for a change and prey on
the casino, and its snatched away by somebody, you
cry and cry. Pretty funny.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

Ibeatyouraces

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:29:14 PM permalink

deleted

DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

EvenBob

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:37:22 PM permalink

Quote: Ibeatyouraces
I would say Revel was the predator. They laid the trap, advertised the bait, then snatched it away when the prey showed up.

They tried to be the predator but made a mistake
and were about to be pounced on by the public.
Ya'll are always sticking up for the casinos when
I call them predators, shouldn't you be happy Dancer
spotted a flaw and informed them? You think the
casino is oh so fair and entertaining, shouldn't you
be glad they weren't taken advantage of? Gosh,
you mean you aren't all one big happy family?

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:41:26 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
I love this thread. I accuse casinos of being predatory
and everybody disagrees with me. Yet when you get
a chance to be the predators for a change and prey on
the casino, and its snatched away by somebody, you
cry and cry. Pretty funny.

Everyone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.

Who's crying? Most AP's knew going in that there was a good chance the Revel would change things or try to weasel out of paying. People are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

EvenBob

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:43:16 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Everyone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.
.

Yeah, like the fox provides entertainment for the
chickens in the henhouse. Exactly like that, in fact.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

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August 19th, 2013 at 1:57:30 PM permalink

Fk Bob you replied before I even hit post.
We know, we all know casino's are out to get your money. Whats your point? Who dose not know this? The fact is its FUN FUN for responsible people just like alcohol is. We all know how bad it can be if misused, just like casino's.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

reno

reno

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:02:32 PM permalink

Quote: Keyser
I'm amused that anyone is upset over Bob Dancer.

After all, do you guys know where you're posting? Your posting here, on the Wizard's forum.

This is NOT some place where you want to teach people how to win using your latest AP methods. Far from it.

There are several different people on this board, including the Wizard, that are linked to casino management, risk consultants, etc....

Every last one of them, will, if it's in their best interest, share whatever you choose to post on this forum. It's not that they are neccessarily being shifty, it's just that it's part of their job. It's what they do.

-Keyser

Amen. Keyser�s post is the most important contribution to this discussion. The original Revel promotion thread on wizardofvegas.com has over 95,000 views. And folks are whining about being �snitched� on by a radio talk show host?!?

EvenBob

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:16:49 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Whats your point? Who dose not know this?

Are you joking? Every time I post about the predatory
casino business model, people climb all over me. Lots
of people don't know, apparently.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

Ibeatyouraces

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:43:38 PM permalink

deleted

DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

FunkyDoctor

FunkyDoctor

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:46:53 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
People are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.

I think you meant a "wolf in sheep's clothing", but we got the point. :)

debitncredit

debitncredit

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:55:15 PM permalink

By the way, what's up with Bob Dancer fixating on being robbed by some guy named Jeffrey Warren Toll? From his columns, it sounds like he got robbed about $8,000. It may be the principle of things, as he says so. But between his columns and his mentions on his radio show, it sounded really petty to me for a "Million Dollar" VP player.

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0730.cfm
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0806.cfm

GBV

GBV

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August 19th, 2013 at 2:56:33 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Everyone knows casinos are predatory however that dose not mean they don't provide entertainment.

Who's crying? Most AP's knew going in that there was a good chance the Revel would change things or try to weasel out of paying. People are annoyed that someone that was believed to be for the player's is a sheep in wolves clothing.

Most AP gurus have worked for the other side at some time. The sad truth is that you completely can't trust anybody.

I agree that people like Dancer, Eliot Jacobson and Max Rubin who play both sides without openly acknowledging the fact are scum of the worst kind, but they are the extreme end of a universal problem.

I've never understood why anybody works the other side. If you are any good you can make significantly more money as an AP. The few times I've been offered consulting work it wasn't even the same order of magnitude of profitability giving up the play as it would have been to use it. Perhaps I was getting offered less than is typical, but the type of sums other people have published suggests there isn't that much money in it.

strictlyAP

strictlyAP

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August 19th, 2013 at 3:31:32 PM permalink

thats funny

The bet will not be paid- not now not ever

onenickelmiracle

onenickelmiracle

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August 19th, 2013 at 4:22:41 PM permalink

Quote: debitncredit
By the way, what's up with Bob Dancer fixating on being robbed by some guy named Jeffrey Warren Toll? From his columns, it sounds like he got robbed about $8,000. It may be the principle of things, as he says so. But between his columns and his mentions on his radio show, it sounded really petty to me for a "Million Dollar" VP player.

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0730.cfm
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0806.cfm

Good topic. It seemed Bob N. tried to talk Bob D. out of it based on potential defamation issues. I'm not so sure making it public was a good idea for Bob D either if the casinos decide to not send him mail anymore or don't want him playing. Perhaps the chance he'll be unlucky is enough to put up with it at his playing levels. He just couldn't let it go and it might turn out to be a mistake for him.

On Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.

I am a robot.

AxelWolf

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August 19th, 2013 at 4:38:36 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Are you joking? Every time I post about the predatory
casino business model, people climb all over me. Lots
of people don't know, apparently.

I think they are arguing more about you saying they have no entertainment value. You make it sound as if everyone in the casino is having a miserable time with no chance at ever winning a dime. You make it sound like every one that ever enters a casino to gamble is a pathetic, degenerate, moron who eventually loses their house and children's collage fund. This forum is filled with AP's that have made a good living from the casino.

As far as people consulting for casinos that's FINE go for it I don't have a problem with that. Just don't lie about it and pretend to be a player advocate. Don't provide casino's with players names who you used to play with.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

reno

reno

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August 19th, 2013 at 4:52:30 PM permalink

Quote: onenickelmiracle
On Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.

I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?

onenickelmiracle

onenickelmiracle

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August 20th, 2013 at 9:09:02 AM permalink

Quote: reno
Quote: onenickelmiracle
On Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.

I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?

I forget the name of the company, but B Dancer mentioned it himself in the referenced radio show and might have been mentioned in the revel thread. I think it's the Fine Group or Fine Point Group.

I am a robot.

Boz

Boz

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August 20th, 2013 at 9:59:59 AM permalink

Quote: onenickelmiracle
Quote: reno
Quote: onenickelmiracle
On Revel and B Dancer, I don't think his advice would have been something they didn't already plan on based on the company hired to set up the promotion. They seem well worth the money even if their tactics are unethical because they seem to know what they're doing.

I didn't know Revel had hired an outside company to set up the promotion, I thought it was set up in-house by Revel management. Do you have any details about this other company?

I forget the name of the company, but B Dancer mentioned it himself in the referenced radio show and might have been mentioned in the revel thread. I think it's the Fine Group or Fine Point Group.

Yea, Larry Fine from the way it turned out. Naturally with help from his 2 friends.

mickeycrimm

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August 22nd, 2013 at 5:48:59 AM permalink

I got a couple of hate mails from Rob Singer last night. Someone tipped him off to this thread. He is now following it. If you've never had the pleasure of receiving a Singer hate mail his motus operandi is to belittle, demean, brow beat, smear, disparage, slight and insult you. I think he looks for some sort of reaction. It's like he gets his jollies off if he can drag you down to his level. Others who know more about it than me describe him as malignant narcissistic.

What was he blasting me about? My criticism of Bob over the Revel promotion. I know Singer well enough to know that he will come up with any reason, any pretext, to insult and demean someone. Not long ago he tried to enlist me in denouncing Dancer as a sick, pathetic, degenerate, compulsive gambler, which caused his marriage to fail. Singer has been bashing Bob like that for years. I told Singer that I didn't think Bob was any of those things....and I wasn't the least bit interested in his personal life. So Singer emailed me back calling ME a sick, pathetic, degenerate, compulsive gambler, and a few other things that I won't repeat here. And the hate mail didn't let up for a week. I'm damned if I DON'T criticize Dancer. I'm damned if I DO criticize Dancer. Like I said, Singer will use any pretext to insult and demean.

I don't have any more time to waste on Singer. There is no value, nothing to be gained in exchanging with him. I've told him not to ever contact me again and blocked his emails. There is a reason he has been thrown off of every forum he has ever participated in.

"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

Ibeatyouraces

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August 22nd, 2013 at 6:25:36 AM permalink

deleted

DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

mickeycrimm

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August 22nd, 2013 at 6:35:48 AM permalink

Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Including this one.

Thanks for confirming that for me.

"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm

Ibeatyouraces

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August 22nd, 2013 at 6:37:57 AM permalink

deleted

DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

JIMMYFOCKER

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August 22nd, 2013 at 6:44:15 AM permalink

Quote: gpac1377
Bob and Shirley divorced late last year. In his May 7th column, he wrote that the marriage failed because she's very sensitive to smoke. She was unable to continue dancing, and she couldn't tolerate Bob returning from the casinos reeking.

Are you being sarcastic?

Buzzard

Buzzard

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August 22nd, 2013 at 6:50:55 AM permalink

no , Bob was. Viagra is not a cureall

Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet

JIMMYFOCKER

Threads: 17
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August 22nd, 2013 at 7:04:55 AM permalink

Quote: Buzzard
no , Bob was. Viagra is not a cureall

Gotcha

So the real reason for the divorce was that Shirley wasn't receiving adequate sex from the Dancer?

All of this is confusing, not that I really care, but they seemed like a happy couple.

Anyone approached Shirley since the divorce for some tea and crumpets?

gpac1377

gpac1377

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August 22nd, 2013 at 7:12:10 AM permalink

Quote: JIMMYFOCKER
Are you being sarcastic?

Nope, that's what he wrote.

Here's the link to the column: http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0507.cfm

Actual quotes:

"According to Shirley, my pores reeked of cigarette smoke. To stay with her, I would have needed to give up casinos entirely and move away from Las Vegas."

"Without dancing, I didn't think we had enough in common to make it as a couple."

"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."

KeyserSoze

KeyserSoze

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August 22nd, 2013 at 7:38:03 AM permalink

Quote: JIMMYFOCKER

Anyone approached Shirley since the divorce for some tea and crumpets?

Is she hot? Age?

Rate her on a scale 1-10.

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see.

JIMMYFOCKER

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August 22nd, 2013 at 7:47:42 AM permalink

Her life just took a turn for the better in all probability, good for Shirley.

wroberson

wroberson

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August 22nd, 2013 at 7:54:11 AM permalink

It sounds to me like this guy was just going about his own business. I don't know if he got paid, but I have to say the main goal is to survive and live as long as possible. It goes deeper than man law. This seems to more about survival and being able to provide for your family. Greed so to speak. It's a natural instinct.

Micky....

If you still have the hate mails you can get the IP to find out where it was sent from. If you use yahoo it's really easy. Open an email and click the actions button up top. A menu will drop and click "view full header" scroll through until you find the originating IP address and then run it through an IP search. If it came from a business or casino, you got a huge complaint against the business or casino. If it's a home PC, well, then you got nothing.

Just letting you know...

Buffering...

Boz

Boz

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August 22nd, 2013 at 12:00:27 PM permalink

Hey guys, every day its a grind. You have to do what it takes to make money and keep it interesting....including selling others out.

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0820.cfm

JIMMYFOCKER

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August 22nd, 2013 at 12:59:27 PM permalink

Quote: Boz
Hey guys, every day its a grind. You have to do what it takes to make money and keep it interesting....including selling others out.

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0820.cfm

Another article boasting about his luck, guy is a real piece of work.

strictlyAP

strictlyAP

Threads: 116
Posts: 983

Joined: Jun 20, 2012

August 22nd, 2013 at 1:42:01 PM permalink

guy is a total piece of work , seems like a total tool, he brags about everything then leaves his wife because she cant handle the smoke - you make money build a downstars shower and take a shower before you come upstairs- but to leave your wife, just goes to show what a piece of work this bob dancer guy is.

The bet will not be paid- not now not ever

EvenBob