participation in denial is just nonsense any more

when you reach blackhat youve reached the top i hate all of you who continue to deny that these things can be programmed to cheat

let a lone wolf in a casino do something

Also tin foil hat level as well.

Quote: rsactuary

Also tin foil hat level as well.
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you are too funny... you specifically

Don't suffer through that video.

The summary is here
https://www.wired.com/story/card-shuffler-hack/#:~:text=They%20ultimately%20found%20that%20if,fully%20hijack%20the%20machine%20and
and it doesn't conclude with that they were able to change the order of anything, and the article is written before anything was actually presented, but according to the article the team was supposed to present later that day their findings of that inserting something into the USB port on the Deckmate 2 should be able to gain access to its camera to then know what the machine knows about the order of the cards in there.

According to their findings, in theory if someone could stick something into the machine at the tables and then transmit that information to someone's nearby phone via bluetooth that information about the order of the cards could be analyzed and conveyed back to a person at the tables via coded signals, and used for cheating.

In other words, that supposedly there is a way to gain access to the camera inside this Deckmate 2 shuffler (under laboratory conditions) to know the order of the cards inside the machine via the USB port on the machine. The programmers thought that there might be a way to access it without plugging in a USB device, if the machine was connected via cellular connection to the manufacturer for monitoring, and they could tap into that communication line.

The programmers did not figure out a way to "reprogram" the Deckmate 2 machine to put the cards in any particular order, although they stated that they believed that this too could be done. These guys had the machine's password, they did not hack it, and it took a very long time to figure out how to do what they did. Probably without that password, they would have taken even longer to access the machine.

They thought that the older model Deckmate 1 machine could be hacked to reorder the cards, or to not shuffle the cards at all, but only if the chip inside the machine itself were physically accessed and somehow reprogrammed, which would take some effort, again, take a long time to figure out and do.

If someone can find the notes from what was actually presented at the August 2023, Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas, and not just what they assumed was going to be presented, that might shed more light on this.

Deckmates are 1 deck shufflers, used in poker rooms.

My understanding is that possibly the reason this Deckmate is vulnerable to this sort of hacking is not just because it has a camera in it to read the cards, but because of its "wheel" design where there ends up just one card per slot, placed into a wheel with 52 slots (or more if there are jokers). The cards are loaded until all the slots are full, and then the machine unloads the cards into a platter for distribution. During some point in the process the camera reads each card, maybe just to determine that all cards are present in the slots and none are duplicated. That sort of slotted wheel design with just 1 card per slot wouldn't really work I don't think for a multi deck shuffler, but in any case, this slotted wheel / one card per slot design combined with a camera might be what makes this machine susceptible.

Someone who knows more about the mechanics of this machine and other shuffling machines could probably analyze the data from these hackers even better.

Quote: heatmap

when you reach blackhat youve reached the top i hate all of you who continue to deny that these things can be programmed to cheat

let a lone wolf in a casino do something

link to original post

There's a huge difference to what is conceivably possible with no regulation or unlikely conspiracy and what can actually be accomplished with nobody knowing and divulging the secrets needed to make it happen.


ZCore13

Lol zcore I’m talking about anyone who is trusted in the regulated environment who can gain physical access or even come close to the device

Any person who fits that bill is a vector to that machine

USB sticks can be made practically to not even look as if it’s inserted into the port

And they have wireless devices that are as small as the usb port itself

Combine that with what Mdawg has said - maybe the slot tech who repairs the shufflers goes rogue… I know I see a single man repairing many shufflers all at once at my local casino. He takes no measures to ensure someone isn’t coming up to the shuffler to place anything in its usb when he isn’t looking the other way usually.

Zcore I get you want to be in the conversation but your practically a robot considering every post is denying what I say as if I really give a duck about regulations when it comes to war.

Quote:

Today, at the Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas, Tartaro and two IOActive colleagues, Enrique Nissim and Ethan Shackelford, will present the results of their ensuing months-long investigation into the Deckmate,

i wonder if the wizard knows this person

Who has denied this was possible? It was a major plot point in Ocean's 13, so the concept has been around for a while.

Quote: heatmap

Quote:

Today, at the Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas, Tartaro and two IOActive colleagues, Enrique Nissim and Ethan Shackelford, will present the results of their ensuing months-long investigation into the Deckmate,

i wonder if the wizard knows this person
link to original post

One wonders whether Ethan Shackelford looks like Mike with sunglasses, a handlebar mustache and those shoes that make one look 2-1/4 inches taller.

Edit: And conspiracy theorists note that Ethan is almost Nathan spelled backwards.

The article states that the programmers claim that they accessed the camera from that USB port and were able to then know what cards would come out.

As far as anything else beyond this camera access, with regards to either the Deckmate 1 or 2, they simply state that it COULD be done, but did not do it.

The strange thing is though, even with regards to that access to camera claim, if you look online including at that article it is very strangely reported - the article states that the team "will present the results" later today "at the Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas." I haven't found any direct account of what exactly was presented, not will be presented.


And in any case what they did took some luck - when they bought the testing machines they were GIVEN the password to access (for maintenance and update purposes) - and a lot of time, under laboratory conditions. And even then all they were able to access (supposedly) is the camera, there was no further hacking done.

And, even if you read closely what they CLAIM they SHOULD be able to do, with regards to the Deckmate 1, they claim that it could be reprogrammed, if someone could get physically into the chip, to say, reorder the cards or not shuffle the cards at all. But they never even try to do that, just say it could be done.

All this took a lot of luck (had the password) and time (under laboratory conditions) and resulted in camera access only.

Quote: TigerWu

Who has denied this was possible? It was a major plot point in Ocean's 13, so the concept has been around for a while.
link to original post

There are, I think, several levels to this question.

Is tampering possible? (Probably.)
... without anyone noticing?
... without leaving evidence?

Quote: heatmap

Zcore I get you want to be in the conversation but your practically a robot considering every post is denying what I say as if I really give a duck about regulations when it comes to war.
link to original post

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.


ZCore13

No one seriously thinks that a bunch of outsider crooks could get this done.

But the conspiracy theory is whether insiders or even the casino could or would do it. If you hang around high limit salons long enough you'll run into a person here and there who really thinks that the casino "lets" people win for a while and then clamps down the screws.

Quote: heatmap

when you reach blackhat youve reached the top i hate all of you who continue to deny that these things can be programmed to cheat

let a lone wolf in a casino do something

link to original post

Can you point out where in this video you see convincing proof. I'm not seeing it, so could you point out the exact moment you knew ?

Like I posted, don't waste your time with the video. Read the article I posted the summary of above.

The Executive Summary is here.

Quote: heatmap

i wonder if the wizard knows this person
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No. If you meet him, tell him he spells his last name incorrectly.

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
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Three days.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
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Three days.
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What for? He was criticizing the posts, not the poster.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
link to original post

Three days.
link to original post

What for? He was criticizing the posts, not the poster.
link to original post

my posts are who i am

Quote: heatmap

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
link to original post

Three days.
link to original post

What for? He was criticizing the posts, not the poster.
link to original post

my posts are who i am
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Not according to the rules of the forum.

Shackleford won the Preakness in 2011 but I never assumed he was related to Mike.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
link to original post

Three days.
link to original post

What for? He was criticizing the posts, not the poster.
link to original post

I disagree, saying a particular post or something in a post is nonsense, is criticizing the post. Saying most of your posts are nonsense is criticizing the person.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be suspended. I'm sure I'm guilty of the same while going back and forth with a few members. However, in this case, it seemed to be an out-of-the-blue personal attack for no reason.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zcore13

That's because most of your posts are nonsense.
link to original post

Three days.
link to original post

What for? He was criticizing the posts, not the poster.
link to original post

I disagree, saying a particular post or something in a post is nonsense, is criticizing the post. Saying most of your posts are nonsense is criticizing the person.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be suspended. I'm sure I'm guilty of the same while going back and forth with a few members. However, in this case, it seemed to be an out-of-the-blue personal attack for no reason.
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if you look at - ill say 40% - of my posts hes in there and its a one sentence copy of the stuff he just said. I get that in his world he has had little interaction with real cheating because there are mostly good people who simply want people to have a great time while spending more money than they do on most things.

But I know people are greedy. People are the only reason security is a thing. People are the reason why we have the gaming control board and the rules that we do. People are not to be trusted no matter how much you trust them.

Trust but verify.

Quote: MDawg

If you hang around high limit salons long enough you'll run into a person here and there who really thinks that the casino "lets" people win for a while and then clamps down the screws.

link to original post

This is also true in low end slot houses. There is a property in the market that I work, I will not name the casino or market publicly but I can provide proof to an admin in DM if required, that is just slots. One of my favorite things to do on slow/dead/off days is read local casino Google maps reviews. This particular casino's reviews are full of "the same people win all the time" or "you see people win but they don't react like a normal person would, that is suspicious".

My favorite was one person claimed to have seen another patron win 25 jackpots in one night and hand the cash to another person. They claimed that the person would "run the money to the bank" and come back. Which they took as running to the CASINO bank.

Some people don't understand gambling.

Just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean there isn't a balrog in the woodpile.

Yes in the slots department one version of that would be where these players think that if you remove the player card it thinks you are someone else and now "lets" you win with a fresh start versus if you keep your player card in there the system might have already put you in No Win mode that you have to trick it into allowing you to exit.

At least with modern slots, I am aware that many are connected to something or other for updates and over all system changes, so I can see how some people might think that the casino could clamp down if it wanted to.

In high limit table games though these guys who think the "Lose" switch has been pulled believe it is through dealer cheating or some kind of manipulation of the shuffling machine which to me all of the above whether to do with slots or table games are too far fetched, knowing that a casino has too much to lose and wins enough just through its edges.

All I am saying is that it's easier for me to understand how a slots player might think that the house is pulling something, dealing with an entirely electronic contraption, but when you encounter people who think that those table games are rigged, it makes me wonder.