S17 DD

There's a lone DD S17 game at one of their properties (or at least it used to be there). I used to play it but avoid doing so now because I think it may be a counter catcher. Is MGM/Mirage like Stations, where if you're backed off at one store it applies to the others as well? How about this question for Caesars' chain?

(If the casino I mentioned had more than ONE table that was DD S17 I wouldn't be as concerned.)

Which casinos was it?

Usually, MGM Grand and Aria has one DD S17 game on their mainfloor and more in their high limit area. Not sure about their other properties.

Quote: JoeSnow

Which casinos was it?

Usually, MGM Grand and Aria has one DD S17 game on their mainfloor and more in their high limit area. Not sure about their other properties.

Mirage and Bellagio also have S17 DD.

I was referring to the Mirage.

I consider all the mentioned games, "counter traps". As a matter of fact, many, if not most DD games in Vegas (even some h17) are what I consider counter traps. If not put there to specifically draw in counters to identify, at the very least SEVERELY monitored, to the point that it is risky to play them. Oh, how I wish I could play nothing but the DD games. I wouldn't struggle with the wild swings and underperform nearly as much as I have this year. But, unfortunately, I can't. I mix in some DD at very short sessions, but the majority of my play takes place against shoe games, with a much larger N0.

The one good thing about these severely 'hawked' DD games is that some of the places have a table of such a game, that they will freak if you spread 1-4, but you can play at the very next table, a decent 6 deck game and spread fairly aggressively with little issue (as long as you don't marathon).

As per backoffs applying to all properties, technically they don't unless stated, but I think what greasyjohn was driving at is the info sharing involved. If you play rated at a second store in the same chain just after being backed off at another store (playing rated), you will often immediately be backed off. Sometimes even unrated at the second store you will be immediately backs of, as they have sent your pic around. However, in both the chains mentioned, there are individual stores more likely to do so and stores less likely to do so, which I am not going to get into.

Thanks, Kewlj. I was hoping you'd weigh in. When I started counting it was SD only. I had to adjust to DD out of necessity. Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count is not easy for a 6- or 8D game, though I've done it. The fun exciting plays are less in evidence in a 6- or 8D game , but I can see why the vast majority of pros play the big shoe.

I pay attention to heat when I play. The average bettor has no clue; they don't even know BS, so they wouldn't recognize heat. It's funny when you sit with another player and think that they're playing pretty good, and you wonder if they have a clue. Then, when the dealer turns over one of their tucked hands and you see that they've stood on soft seventeen, or on 15 against an 8, count near 0.

I should adopt a new count if I "move up" to a 6D game. Too bad that 4 chains control so much of Vegas.

You used the phrase "much larger NO." What's "NO"?

Post error.

Quote: Greasyjohn

You used the phrase "much larger NO." What's "NO"?

It's actually capital N followed by the number zero. N0. (makes it look like a slim O) lol.

I am not going to look up the technical definition. You can do so or someone else can share that if they like. Instead I will paraphrase what it means to me. It is the number of rounds needed to play where variance and swings become less of an issue and results at least begin to fall in line with where they should be (at least some what). So every game has a different N0, based on number of decks, rules and penetration. The better games have lower N0's. Worse games or games with less favorable rules and conditions have higher N0's.

It is one of those things that seems to have become more important or prevalent as we began using computer simulations as an aid. When you run software simulations for games inputing conditions, decks, rules, penetration, you will get a expected winrate and you will also get a N0 for each different game. This help you compare different games.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Thanks, Kewlj. I was hoping you'd weigh in. When I started counting it was SD only. I had to adjust to DD out of necessity. Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count is not easy for a 6- or 8D game, though I've done it. The fun exciting plays are less in evidence. But I can see why the vast majority of pros play the big shoe.

I pay attention to heat when I play. The average bettor has no clue, because they have no clue. It's funny when you sit with another player and think that they're playing pretty good, and you wonder if they have a clue. Then, when the dealer turns over one of their tucked hands and you see that they've stood on soft seventeen, or on 15 against an 8, count near 0.

I should adopt a new count if I "move up" to a 6D game. Too bad that 4 chains control so much of Vegas.

You used the phrase "much larger NO." What's "NO"?

If you look closely you'll see that it's an N and a zero and that's exactly how it's pronounced. N-zero. N0 is the number of hands you must play to be ahead by one standard deviation. If someone wants to give a more in depth explanation, please feel free to do so.

If you are moving back and forth between pitch and shoe games, there is no need to learn two different counts as there are some that work well for both. I highly recommend Zen.

Actually I thought it was N₀