pyiddy
pyiddy
Joined: Jun 19, 2016
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 18
June 19th, 2016 at 6:51:51 AM permalink
Note: I am the vpfree2 monitor for the Majestic Star (Gary, IN) and Rivers (Des Plaines, IL)
The former has added a new bank of IGT VP with some very unusual games.
One of the groups is called "classical" but the games sure are not. I have been able to analyze 17 standard VP games and 3 Pick a Pair games with the help of the excellent "Wizard" tools. The 21st game stumps me!

For a one to five credit bet the game plays as NSUD except that quints pay 12 for 1 not 16 for 1.
If you play a sixth credit the game pays 6 (1 for 1) on three of a kind but all other hands pay as if a five credit bet.
The gave back is that all natural four of a kinds pay at least as good as a five credit bet for double double bonus.
Four natural Aces + 2, 3 or 4 pays 2000 (333-1/3 for 1)
Four natural Aces + no low pays 1000 (166-2/3 for 1)
Four natural Threes or Fours + A, 2, 3 or 4 pays 1000 (166-2/3 for 1)
Four natural Threes or Fours + no low pays 500 (83-1/3 for 1)
Four natural Fives through Kings pays 250 (41-2/3 for 1)
Note: If the fifth card with a natural quad is a deuce you only get paid for the highest value hand.

Any clues to the EV of this game? Strategy?

Note: thanks to the "Wizard" for his articles on Atomic Poker and Dice Fever also found on these machines. The Fast Fours on these machines have better pay tables than those shown in the "Wizard" article.

pyiddy
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 73
June 24th, 2016 at 4:49:50 AM permalink
Quote: pyiddy

The Fast Fours on these machines have better pay tables than those shown in the "Wizard" article.

pyiddy


Can you either list these pay outs or post pictures of the pay tables? Thanks.
ck1313
ck1313 
Joined: Aug 27, 2011
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 29
June 24th, 2016 at 5:20:08 AM permalink
I also have this game at my local casino and was thinking about making this same post. I enjoy the game but also have some strategy questions.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 8757
June 24th, 2016 at 7:26:53 AM permalink
Pyiddy,

Welcome to the forum! Great question. The Wizard is not available at the moment, but I'm sure he'll be interested, as are some of the other math guys, I'm sure.

Can you post the full pay tables (transcribe them) for us? You won't be able to post a link or picture as a new member, but if you have pictures instead, send me a link (from a place like tiny pic or other host) in a PM and I'll get it posted in the thread.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 73
June 24th, 2016 at 9:53:27 AM permalink
Quote: pyiddy

Note: I am the vpfree2 monitor for the Majestic Star (Gary, IN) and Rivers (Des Plaines, IL)
The former has added a new bank of IGT VP with some very unusual games.
One of the groups is called "classical" but the games sure are not. I have been able to analyze 17 standard VP games and 3 Pick a Pair games with the help of the excellent "Wizard" tools. The 21st game stumps me!

For a one to five credit bet the game plays as NSUD except that quints pay 12 for 1 not 16 for 1.
If you play a sixth credit the game pays 6 (1 for 1) on three of a kind but all other hands pay as if a five credit bet.
The gave back is that all natural four of a kinds pay at least as good as a five credit bet for double double bonus.
Four natural Aces + 2, 3 or 4 pays 2000 (333-1/3 for 1)
Four natural Aces + no low pays 1000 (166-2/3 for 1)
Four natural Threes or Fours + A, 2, 3 or 4 pays 1000 (166-2/3 for 1)
Four natural Threes or Fours + no low pays 500 (83-1/3 for 1)
Four natural Fives through Kings pays 250 (41-2/3 for 1)
Note: If the fifth card with a natural quad is a deuce you only get paid for the highest value hand.

Any clues to the EV of this game? Strategy?

Note: thanks to the "Wizard" for his articles on Atomic Poker and Dice Fever also found on these machines. The Fast Fours on these machines have better pay tables than those shown in the "Wizard" article.

pyiddy


Assuming I'm interpreting your payouts correctly and haven't screwed up somewhere, I get the following:

Hand Pays Probability Return
Natural royal flush 800 2.23E-05 0.01783718
Four deuces 200 0.000193788 0.038757533
Wild royal flush 25 0.001919217 0.047980426
Five of a Kind 12 0.002726198 0.032714376
Straight flush 10 0.004987781 0.049877813
Four Natural Aces w 2-4 400 5.92E-05 0.023687175
Four Natural Aces w 5-K 200 0.000119889 0.023977825
Four Natural 3-4 w A-4 200 0.000118589 0.023717808
Four Natural 3-4 w 5-K 100 0.000240491 0.024049142
Four Natural 5-K 50 0.001479651 0.073982563
Four of a Kind 4 0.062120682 0.24848273
Full house 4 0.020953157 0.083812629
Flush 3 0.020014453 0.06004336
Straight 2 0.050237875 0.10047575
Three of a kind 1.2 0.28692546 0.344310552
Nothing 0 0.547881253 0
Total 1 1.193706862
EV 0.994755718
STD 5.888350701

Note, the total return is multiplied by the usual 5/6 since the game costs 6 coins.
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 73
June 24th, 2016 at 10:02:31 AM permalink
By the way, what is this game called on the machine?
vpplayer2016
vpplayer2016
Joined: May 3, 2016
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 6
June 28th, 2016 at 4:40:29 PM permalink
What were the paytables for Fast Fours?
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 73
July 2nd, 2016 at 3:16:12 AM permalink
In another thread you said:
Quote: pyiddy

I made a serious error. The WRF is 100 not 125 for 5 or 6 coins.
This game is the same as 800-200-20-12-10-4-4-3-2-1 Deuces for 1-5 coins. The sixth coin pays 6 on 3 of a kind but all other hands pay like the 5 coin pay table. The sixth coin also pays all natural quads somewhat like DDB (4 natural aces + low 2000, 4 natural aces + no low 1000, 4 natural threes or fours + low 1000, four natural threes or fours + no low 500 and 4 natural fives through kings 250. Note: all these would have to be divided by 6 to get the one coin equivalent.)

pyiddy


Here is a revision. Hopefully the Wiz can weigh-in on this.
Hand Pays Probability Return
Natural royal flush 800 2.15E-05 0.017172235
Four deuces 200 0.000190502 0.038100447
Wild royal flush 20 0.001718026 0.034360527
Five of a Kind 12 0.002735171 0.03282205
Straight flush 10 0.005263673 0.052636727
Four Natural Aces w 2-4 400 5.96E-05 0.02385107
Four Natural Aces w 5-K 200 0.000121047 0.02420932
Four Natural 3-4 w A-4 200 0.000118709 0.023741877
Four Natural 3-4 w 5-K 100 0.000240641 0.024064071
Four Natural 5-K 50 0.001480031 0.074001539
Four of a Kind 4 0.062380612 0.249522448
Full house 4 0.020981256 0.083925023
Flush 3 0.020007672 0.060023016
Straight 2 0.050545965 0.101091929
Three of a kind 1.2 0.287421736 0.344906084
Nothing 0 0.546713866 0
Total 1 1.184428365
EV 0.987023637
STD 5.829137242
JB
Administrator
JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2035
July 2nd, 2016 at 10:35:02 AM permalink
(my initial results were incorrect and have been removed) - my figures agree with the ones shown above.
Last edited by: JB on Jul 2, 2016
pyiddy
pyiddy
Joined: Jun 19, 2016
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 18
July 2nd, 2016 at 10:42:50 AM permalink
Thank You. Unfortunately I made a serious error, The Wild Royal is 20 not 25 on the game I saw yesterday. I suspect all six machines in this bank are that. I will probably check all six machines the next time I am there.

  • Jump to: