ODDS

After reading the Wizard of Odd's explanation of 3x-4x-5x Odds after an initial Pass or Don't Pass bet. I was comfortable that I had a basic understanding of what was being said. I decided to inquire at Mountaineer Casino, WV what their Odds were. Here is their answer:

Supplemental wagers on pass line and come bets are referred
to as “taking odds”. Supplemental wagers on don’t pass and
don’t come bets are referred to as “laying odds”. Your “taking
odds” wager is paid at true odds – 1 to 2 on 4 and 10; 2 to 3
on 5 and 9; 6 to 5 on 6 and 8 – it can be for any amount over
the table minimum up to an amount which would provide you
with a payout not in excess of your original don’t pass or don’t
come bet. For example, if your point was 4 and $5 was your
original don’t pass bet, your “laying odds” wager of up to $10
can be made since the true odds payout (1 to 2) would be $5.


How do these Odds differ compared to the 3x-4x-5x Odds outlined by the Wizard of Odds? The phrase "-it can be for any amount over
the table minimum up to an amount which would provide you with a payout not in excess of your original don’t pass or don’t
come bet." kind of confuses me a bit.

Any simplified explanation would be apreciated. Take care.

It sounds as if they are restricting the table to single odds (1x). I don't think I have ever seen a land-based casino with rules that stingy. I've played at the Mountaineer, and I don't remember it being that way.

The line you quoted means you cannot win on lay odds any more than your original "don't" wager. On a 4 or 10 point, you would have to lay 2x to win that 1x (lay $10 odds to win $5); for a 5 or 9 point, lay 1.5x to win 1x ($15 to win $10, provided your "don't" wager was $10), or on a 6 or 8 point lay 6x/5 odds to win 1x (lay $6 odds to win $5).

Is that any clearer? I suggest you study the pass/come odds and understand them prior to trying to figure out the odds bets on the don'ts -- it's easier, and the don't odds just work in reverse.

Quote: Doc

It sounds as if they are restricting the table to single odds (1x). I don't think I have ever seen a land-based casino with rules that stingy. I've played at the Mountaineer, and I don't remember it being that way.

To be honest, I doubt that they are. With increasing competition from PA and Ohio on the way, I HIGHLY doubt that Mountaineer is offering 1x odds. Wheeling Island HAS changed what odds they offer from time to time. For a while, they had low mins ($2) but 3x-4x-5x. At one point, I think they had 20x odds. Last time I was there (probably 5 months ago), they had 10x odds with $5 min bet on the pass line.

Quote: jbwov

How do these Odds differ compared to the 3x-4x-5x Odds outlined by the Wizard of Odds? The phrase "-it can be for any amount over
the table minimum up to an amount which would provide you with a payout not in excess of your original don’t pass or don’t
come bet." kind of confuses me a bit.

Any simplified explanation would be apreciated. Take care.

The purpose behind 3x-4x-5x Take-Odds limits is ease of payout, since each of these pays 6x to the Pass/Come when they win, regardless of the Point/Up-Number. Once a Point or Up-Number is set, the true odds per capita are reversible: 4 (or 10) before 7 has 2-to-1 odds against it, so 7 before 4 (or 10) has 1-to-2 odds against it; 5 (or 9) before 7 has 3-to-2 odds against it, so 7 before 5 (or 9) has 2-to-3 odds against it, and so on. This means that, on a Pass/Come bet of $1, taking 2-to-1 odds at $3 wins $6 and, conversely on a Don't-Pass/-Come bet of $1, laying 1-to-2 odds at $6 wins $3. In other words, the amount you bet taking odds for the Point equals the amount you win laying odds against the Point, and the amount you win taking odds equals the amount you bet laying odds. So, you could Doey-Don't with $5 each on Pass and Don't-Pass simultaneously, and when the Point (say 4) sets, you could back both your Pass bet with $5 Odds and your Don't-Pass with $10 Odds. If the 4 rolls before 7, the $15 Don't-Pass money would lose but immediately reappear as the $5 + $10 = $15 won by your Pass money, and if the 7 rolls before 4, the $10 Pass money would lose but immediately reappear as $5 + $5 = $10 won by the Don't-Pass money, because each total bet is precisely the reverse of the other.

BTW, I do not recommend laying odds, ever ! You're betting more to win less , so variance will just be plain hell !

Quote: NowTheSerpent

BTW, I do not recommend laying odds, ever ! You're betting more to win less , so variance will just be plain hell !

I don't recommend taking odds or laying odds. Both are 0% edge bets.

But I don't not recommend taking odds or laying odds. Both are 0% edge bets.

Quote: NowTheSerpent

BTW, I do not recommend laying odds, ever ! You're betting more to win less , so variance will just be plain hell !

Yeah, remember that eventually, somebody HAS to roll forever, so when that time happens, you'll be out a TON of money. That Fire Bet hits ALL the time, and the Sharp Shooter bet is a great option too, since people NEVER seven out.

I'm not a dark side player, so I don't lay odds for that reason, but there's absolutely no reason NOT to lay odds. If you're worried about variance, then craps is CERTAINLY not the game you should play. Try Video Poke... I mean Blackja... I mean Live poke... I mean a slot machi... roulet... um, try not GOING to a casino!

There ya go!

Quote: NowTheSerpent

I do not recommend laying odds, ever ! You're betting more to win less , so variance will just be plain hell !

Is there a better bet anywhere on the casino premises?

I recommend taking odds when the shooter is going to roll his point, and laying odds when he is going to 7-out...

Seriously, if you are playing craps, and you don't take/lay odds...well, good luck to you then.

If you get lucky, you can net quite a profit from the darkside. I like to have 3 bets at a time. I'll lay the 4 and 10, and put a DC bet up. Then I'll move one of my lays to the odds. If the 4 or 10 hits, I move the other lay to that number, and I put up 1 more DC. Then I wait it out.

However, if it's a full table, I'll play the pass line.

Thanks Doc, that's what I was thinking too..."stingy" and looking like 1x odds. Your answer is clearly the best and best of all directly related to the question and Mountaineer Casino's own answer.

If I could ask you to go a bit farther. Since Mountaineer Casino's answer to the Supplemental Wager (Odds) question was as I posted. Would you take it to mean that also their Pass Line Odds were also restricted to 1x Odds? My understanding of Odds on the Pass vs Don't side is that it must be the same Odds on either side. Or would I be mistaken to think that?

That's what I would make of their answer that you posted. I just don't remember it being that way. I'm sure that I bet pass instead of the don't, and I think I would remember being restricted to 1x, which I don't. I can't think of a reason they would bias the payouts such as 1x (paid) for the don'ts but allow 2x or 5x or whatever for the pass/come.

Doc...agreed, and at any rate we'll see as I may be going in the next couple of weeks. Been there but never landed at the craps table yet. In retrospect, Mountaineer Casino's web site is pretty lame. It could be very likley their online explanation of their Supplemental Wager (Odds) is simply a boiler plate and not actually what they are offering. I emailed them, but they never replied. Another negative for Mountaineer Casino in my view.