Why do craps advantage players complain about biased dice?
July 21st, 2013 at 10:32:48 AM
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"Las Vegas Casinos are systematically using Biased Dice in an effort to cheat their customers and increase profits. These Biased Unbalanced Dice are mostly used every weekend, holidays and especially when marketing promotions have targeted high rollers into the casino. Furthermore, the down economy has tempted most casinos to use the Biased Dice more often to guarantee fewer losses."
If a casinos are really using dice biased toward seven outs, why don't these dice controllers bet the minimum on the don't, lay max odds, and then set the dice for 7 after they establish a point?
Based on what I've witnessed the last few trips to my favorite casino for craps, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they're using loaded dice and I plan on making a lot of money off their crooked dice... :p
If a casinos are really using dice biased toward seven outs, why don't these dice controllers bet the minimum on the don't, lay max odds, and then set the dice for 7 after they establish a point?
Based on what I've witnessed the last few trips to my favorite casino for craps, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they're using loaded dice and I plan on making a lot of money off their crooked dice... :p
July 21st, 2013 at 10:50:22 AM
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The only people complaining are the ones who are banned from this forum. (Then again, the question is moot since it has yet to be proven that there is such thing as a "craps advantage player")
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 21st, 2013 at 12:15:52 PM
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Quote: drjohnny
If a casinos are really using dice biased toward seven outs, why don't these dice controllers bet the minimum on the don't, lay max odds, and then set the dice for 7 after they establish a point?
Based on what I've witnessed the last few trips to my favorite casino for craps, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they're using loaded dice and I plan on making a lot of money off their crooked dice... :p
Las Vegas casinos don't use gaffed dice. The casino industry is highly regulated, and no casino would ever risk, consider, or partake in such shenanigans when having a clean game in full safety is profitable.
The table hold percentages of common table games have remained steady on a game by game basis, and casinos lost money due to lack of patronage during the recession.
The link to the craps advantage player site's assertion is 100% speculation and fabrication; all a player has to do to profit from "Seven-out dice" being used is to play the don't and DC, becoming a "dark side AP," so to speak.
Furthermore, a single instance of a casino operator using gaffed equipment would be a huge scandal visible in all the major gaming publications, as well as the newspapers, with gaming authorities responding by reading the riot act to operators coast-to-coast.
The whole assertion by that site is a crock.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
July 21st, 2013 at 6:24:01 PM
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Quote: from the website(contact information) please contact us at: HarleyHorn@gmail.com
PS, this also
"About Me
...
HarleyHorn
Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
I have lived in Las Vegas for over 5 years. I now own a house just a few miles from the Strip, but for 2 of those years I lived in the casinos on the Strip. I have over 4,000 hours playing craps experience in real live casinos (not to mention the countless hours on my own table). I also travel across the United States playing in different casinos. I have an Accounting degree and over 25 years experience analyzing numbers and numerical relationships. "
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 21st, 2013 at 6:50:11 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 21st, 2013 at 7:03:55 PM
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A train leaves with 1,000 people from LA headed to NYC. Along the way 100 get murdered, but 100 people are born. It doesn't matter as long as 1000 people make it to NYC is the idea, but if you were the 100 people murdered, I think it would matter to you.
I just believe it is possible a material science engineer could develop dice which do not follow the predictability, but still in the long run have the same results. The casinos could have some of these practices to ensure confidence, but they don't and I find it strange. It doesn't seem they're willing to prove it.
I just believe it is possible a material science engineer could develop dice which do not follow the predictability, but still in the long run have the same results. The casinos could have some of these practices to ensure confidence, but they don't and I find it strange. It doesn't seem they're willing to prove it.
I am a robot.
July 21st, 2013 at 8:44:21 PM
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It's here nowQuote: IbeatyouracesI think we will all be living on the planet Mercury before that ever happens.
More than a handful of craps pros working the strip these days and making a decent living.
July 21st, 2013 at 8:53:11 PM
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[Duplicate deleted]
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 21st, 2013 at 8:53:12 PM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERIt's here now
More than a handful of craps pros working the strip these days and making a decent living.
According to whom? Themselves?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 21st, 2013 at 8:58:45 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 21st, 2013 at 9:09:26 PM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKER
More than a handful of craps pros working the strip these days and making a decent living.
Like Harley, the masked guest. He claims to
win big all the time but even Ahigh questions
this as nobody has ever seen him do it in
person. I think its baloney, he's a fake from
top to bottom. And he's not a member here
so yeah, that was meant as an insult.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
July 21st, 2013 at 9:14:15 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 21st, 2013 at 9:54:42 PM
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ExactlyQuote: Beethoven9thThe only people complaining are the ones who are banned from this forum. (Then again, the question is moot since it has yet to be proven that there is such thing as a "craps advantage player")
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 21st, 2013 at 9:56:19 PM
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let us know how that works out for yaQuote: drjohnny"Las Vegas Casinos are systematically using Biased Dice in an effort to cheat their customers and increase profits. These Biased Unbalanced Dice are mostly used every weekend, holidays and especially when marketing promotions have targeted high rollers into the casino. Furthermore, the down economy has tempted most casinos to use the Biased Dice more often to guarantee fewer losses."
If a casinos are really using dice biased toward seven outs, why don't these dice controllers bet the minimum on the don't, lay max odds, and then set the dice for 7 after they establish a point?
Based on what I've witnessed the last few trips to my favorite casino for craps, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they're using loaded dice and I plan on making a lot of money off their crooked dice... :p
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 22nd, 2013 at 2:12:11 AM
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If dice are biased towards 7 would it truly be beneficial to play Darkside? Or detrimental for Rightside for that matter?? .. If there's an increase of sevens on come outs then that hurts the don't player.. But that also helps the Rightside.. So you wouldn't be playing the don't, you would just lay numbers and pay the vig... I'd imagine the best way to do it, is simply play pass line, then take no odds but lay for max against the point....
July 22nd, 2013 at 3:09:23 AM
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That's one way, several others have been mentioned. Always an excuse why the DP or DC or Lay won't work.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
July 22nd, 2013 at 3:59:56 AM
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Craps advantage players???
Now, that's funny!
Now, that's funny!
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see.
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:31:01 AM
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Last edited by: Tanko on Mar 9, 2016
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:37:31 AM
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A few have not worked for years and are professional gamblers in every sense of the word.Quote: IbeatyouracesRight. When they quit their jobs and rely 100% on tossing dice WITHOUT selling books or classes, I still won't believe it. But hey, good luck to 'em.
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:59:17 AM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERA few have not worked for years and are professional gamblers in every sense of the word.
And I can claim that the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it true.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 6:03:13 AM
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Just stating facts, these individuals are not worried what you believe, and let me add, a couple of these players are very well respected in the gambling community and have been gambling professionally for over twenty years.Quote: Beethoven9thI can claim that the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it true.
July 22nd, 2013 at 6:11:26 AM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERJust stating facts, these individuals are not worried what you believe...
And I'm just stating the facts. The moon is made of green cheese.
(What? You mean you don't believe me???)
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 6:53:52 AM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:07:18 AM
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Quote: DeMangoThat's one way, several others have been mentioned. Always an excuse why the DP or DC or Lay won't work.
Isn't that the truth?
I guess they become so good at dice setting that they are no longer physically capable of a random toss, otherwise, you would bet the Don't, throw out a completely random CO and then set for Sevens, n'est-ce pas?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:24:12 AM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERJust stating facts, these individuals are not worried what you believe, and let me add, a couple of these players are very well respected in the gambling community and have been gambling professionally for over twenty years.
They aren't worried what we believe? Good!
Since they're so not worried...what are their names? Do they derive income from teaching classes or writing books? What percentage of their income comes from those sources?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:12:28 AM
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dr
Dont believe that craps about biased dice... couple of things
1.... if a casino was going to do that, the only way it would work is bias to a 7.... betting a 7 then would kill
them.....
2.....Dice are changed everyday and some times every shift, there is no way to know if the bias has
changed.
3.... a person with a very good toss still gets about the same results over time on similar tables, and yet
each table will have different dice.
4..... and finally we come to this, you see some people complaining over and over about biased dice
and yet they still play... that would be about as stupid as playing 4 card pocket and betting your
hand against the dealer when he gets 6 cards and you get 5
Dicesetter
Dont believe that craps about biased dice... couple of things
1.... if a casino was going to do that, the only way it would work is bias to a 7.... betting a 7 then would kill
them.....
2.....Dice are changed everyday and some times every shift, there is no way to know if the bias has
changed.
3.... a person with a very good toss still gets about the same results over time on similar tables, and yet
each table will have different dice.
4..... and finally we come to this, you see some people complaining over and over about biased dice
and yet they still play... that would be about as stupid as playing 4 card pocket and betting your
hand against the dealer when he gets 6 cards and you get 5
Dicesetter
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:16:01 AM
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They do not write books or teach classes.Quote: rdw4potusThey aren't worried what we believe? Good!
Since they're so not worried...what are their names? Do they derive income from teaching classes or writing books? What percentage of their income comes from those sources?
These are not the Bob Dancer's, Linda Boyd's, Steve Fezzik's, John Patrick's or others that are similar to them, these are true and true professional gamblers that many are only familiar with because of this and other Las Vegas related forums, and as far as I know, not one of them has ever written a book or taught a gambling class.
July 22nd, 2013 at 11:02:08 AM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKER...these are true and true professional gamblers that many are only familiar with because of this and other Las Vegas related forums
So you believe everything you read on internet forums?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 12:14:56 PM
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Should 'craps advantage player' replace 'military intelligence'
as the new standard for an oxymoron?
Oxymoron: a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms
as the new standard for an oxymoron?
Oxymoron: a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:40:14 PM
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I don't know. I consider someone who claims to predict roulette Evens bets better than 50% of the time making it up as well, but if they do it, who cares what other people think, and why should they prove it to anyone else.
It's possible that someone has thought up a way of beating Craps that is not common knowledge. There's plays in the AP cannon that aren't 'common' knowledge, and if they have it, they are likely to keep it very, very quiet.
If the person isn't willing to make a public, testable claim, then who cares if they believe the moon is made of green cheese in private. And if they are making money on moon-cheese imports, you can't blame them for keeping quiet. Maybe they are better than random at predicting the nice dice throw by understanding what random does really, really well.
I wouldn't bet that they exist, mind, just that there's things out there that people might be doing that I don't know about.
It's possible that someone has thought up a way of beating Craps that is not common knowledge. There's plays in the AP cannon that aren't 'common' knowledge, and if they have it, they are likely to keep it very, very quiet.
If the person isn't willing to make a public, testable claim, then who cares if they believe the moon is made of green cheese in private. And if they are making money on moon-cheese imports, you can't blame them for keeping quiet. Maybe they are better than random at predicting the nice dice throw by understanding what random does really, really well.
I wouldn't bet that they exist, mind, just that there's things out there that people might be doing that I don't know about.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 22nd, 2013 at 5:41:11 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: JIMMYFOCKER...these are true and true professional gamblers that many are only familiar with because of this and other Las Vegas related forums
So you believe everything you read on internet forums?
He didn't say that he only read about them on internet forums. He said that many people may only be familiar with them through internet forums.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 22nd, 2013 at 6:07:59 PM
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Quote: thecesspitQuote: Beethoven9thQuote: JIMMYFOCKER...these are true and true professional gamblers that many are only familiar with because of this and other Las Vegas related forums
So you believe everything you read on internet forums?
He didn't say that he only read about them on internet forums.
Then how did he become "familiar" with these "true and true professional gamblers"? If not through "this and other Las Vegas related forums", then he should state where he found these people instead of giving us the runaround.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 6:27:59 PM
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Quote: drjohnny(Spam link deleted)"Las Vegas Casinos are systematically using Biased Dice in an effort to cheat their customers and increase profits. These Biased Unbalanced Dice are mostly used every weekend, holidays and especially when marketing promotions have targeted high rollers into the casino. Furthermore, the down economy has tempted most casinos to use the Biased Dice more often to guarantee fewer losses."
Really? Are you SURE its not that oxygen flow rate that is cranked up on the weekends? Or perhaps the CW shuts you off the Top Shelf stuff on the weekends?
When it is crowded and there are more observers, particularly high rollers who presumably know what they are seeing... the oxygen get cranked up?? Or perhaps by high roller you mean a different type of high.
And "they" (they many casino employees) who are "in" on the cranked up oxygen, they don't go to the newspapers or photograph a few dice first?
Anyone can sample a gift shop in a casino and plainly see that over two thirds of the cancelled dice in the gift shop have edges that would still suffice for random play. Dice are simply more hardy than they used to be. They last longer but casinos are not going to take chances and so casinos routinely "retire" dice either on schedule or after any hard use.
When are you people going to learn:
There are no oxygen tanks and there are no loaded dice being introduced by the casino. There are no "coolers" in the casino's employ, but it was an okay with movie with great looking broads. There are no croupiers who can spin numbers they select in advance. There are no Blackjack dealers who can deal you "good cards" though they will surely accept a tip for having done so. The casino is in the business for the long haul and doesn't do things that would be short term risks of their licenses.
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:33:26 PM
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Been on numerous plays with them over the years.Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: thecesspitQuote: Beethoven9thQuote: JIMMYFOCKER...these are true and true professional gamblers that many are only familiar with because of this and other Las Vegas related forums
So you believe everything you read on internet forums?
He didn't say that he only read about them on internet forums.
Then how did he become "familiar" with these "true and true professional gamblers"? If not through "this and other Las Vegas related forums", then he should state where he found these people instead of giving us the runaround.
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:52:05 PM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERBeen on numerous plays with them over the years.
And I've been to the moon and found that it was made of green cheese.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 7:56:54 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9th
Then how did he become "familiar" with these "true and true professional gamblers"? If not through "this and other Las Vegas related forums", then he should state where he found these people instead of giving us the runaround.
How is that your business to begin with? Why does JIMMYFOCKER have to prove anything?
A: He doesn't.
Why is it not possible for there to be an advantage at craps that you haven't figured out yet? There are two kinds of AP's. Trailblazers and followers. It is much easier to follow the traditional AP plays; I believe the Wizard recommended following traditional AP plays somewhere. Most people do follow the traditional AP plays. I guarantee there are plays you haven't thought of. Now I don't believe in the bias dice thing either. I'm just getting sick of craps haters bandwagon thing going on here.
Edit: I'm just getting sick of the dismissal of an entire game because you haven't figured out how to beat it. Did you ever think there would be a way to beat Keno, Slots, Mississippi Stud, etc.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:06:07 PM
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When people make such claims on a PUBLIC forum, they (and you) shouldn't be surprised when someone else decides to challenge them.Quote: MoosetonHow is that your business to begin with? Why does JIMMYFOCKER have to prove anything?
A: He doesn't.
Why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth? FYI, I happen to believe that dice control/influence is in fact theoretically possible. In reality, I just don't believe it can be done. Too many variables.Quote: MoosetonWhy is it not possible for there to be an advantage at craps that you haven't figured out yet?
I'm just getting sick of people who label others as "craps haters" without getting their facts straight. (BTW, you're free to go to Ahigh's forum if you don't like the craps discussions here)Quote: MoosetonI'm just getting sick of craps haters bandwagon thing going on here.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:19:56 PM
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I've thought of games being rigged. Most of the games have "boards of misinformation" attached to the table.
One possibility are tiny air bubbles on one side of the dice. These air bubbles would be invisible except under intense magnification and under invisible light. Yes, light can be invisible. So can dark.
Casino's have enough money and powerful friends they keep around to avoid just about any scandal that implies cheating.
Overall, the biggest advantages a player has is not to play the game, and leaving the table.
I'm not going to doubt a player's ability as it doesn't matter to just about everyone else.
The only reality is the truth and it's one you can't change.
One possibility are tiny air bubbles on one side of the dice. These air bubbles would be invisible except under intense magnification and under invisible light. Yes, light can be invisible. So can dark.
Casino's have enough money and powerful friends they keep around to avoid just about any scandal that implies cheating.
Overall, the biggest advantages a player has is not to play the game, and leaving the table.
I'm not going to doubt a player's ability as it doesn't matter to just about everyone else.
The only reality is the truth and it's one you can't change.
Buffering...
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:43:10 PM
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I labeled everyone who dismissed craps as unbeatable as part of the "craps hater bandwagon". Perhaps I could have found some more appropriate label such as the craps dismissers or something to that effect. I don't see how my facts aren't straight though. And I have looked at Ahighs website. He is a character. Most of EB's and your posts are usually great and valuable but not so much in this particular thread.
Cancel that. Just found this out. -- Astronomers know that the core of the Moon is probably at least partly molten.
Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/20583/what-is-the-moon-made-of/#ixzz2Zpw2KJjk
Cancel that. Just found this out. -- Astronomers know that the core of the Moon is probably at least partly molten.
Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/20583/what-is-the-moon-made-of/#ixzz2Zpw2KJjk
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:52:53 PM
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I meant that they weren't straight in regards to me because I do believe that DI/DC is theoretically possible.Quote: MoosetonI don't see how my facts aren't straight though.
Thank you. (That's a genuine, not a sarcastic, thank you)Quote: MoosetonMost of EB's and your posts are usually great and valuable...
That was my point to JIMMYFOCKER. When someone makes a bold statement, I'd like to see proof in support of (or against) that statement. All he wants us to do is take his word for it.Quote: MoosetonCancel that. Just found this out. -- Astronomers know that the core of the Moon is probably at least partly molten.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
July 22nd, 2013 at 8:53:43 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 23rd, 2013 at 4:34:51 PM
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Quote:Ibeatyouraces
This is to anyone.
Ok lets say you think you're a craps AP. You roll a 5 on the come out roll. At this point, exactly what percent of an advantage do you have? If you cannot answer this, then you have no advantage and are not an AP.
What difference does it make if I roll the five right back, does coming up with a percentage of the advantage I have make me a winners?
Or does hitting the point make me a winner? For all you math guys that do gamble I have one quick question for you, Why would you play a negative game if you know that math of the game? The math tells everybody that your a loser as soon as you make your first bet, and even if you knew your so-called advantage on any bet that you make,.. it doesn't mean that your going to get paid off on your bet.
Just because you think of yourself as a card counter and the count is in your favor, again it doesn’t mean that you are going to win the hand!
Playing just by the math of game in craps is going to do one thing and that is, make you a loser, because you will never take advantage of a trend that is happening. The math says that the best bets on the table to bet on are the 6 and 8, but the truth of the matter is that any number that you bet on that the shooter is hitting is the best bet you can have on any craps table.
If nobody is rolling the 6's and 8's they are one of the worst bets you can be making!
Ibeatyouraces,.. do you even play craps, or are you one of these guys that know everything about every game in the casino that you don't play?
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!
You do good brada ..!
superrick
Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
...
July 23rd, 2013 at 4:43:18 PM
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Quote: superrick
Just because you think of yourself as a card counter and the count is in your favor, again it doesn’t mean that you are going to win the hand!
No legitimate counter would expect to win the hand either.
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see.
July 23rd, 2013 at 5:54:09 PM
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Quote: superrick
If nobody is rolling the 6's and 8's they are one of the worst bets you can be making!
Thanks for stating the obvious. That's called hindsight. Gambling isn't about hindsight. Knowing no-one rolled a 6/8 for the last 12 rolls I had a 6/8 bet is worth nothing to me.
People who know the math of the game will still play, as they
-understand variance
-enjoy the gamble (EV means expected value, not the actual result)
-hope to get lucky.
Players playing with a calcuable advantage know that times is their friend, and making a series of bets when they have the advantage will be beneficial to them.
The concept is easy. No-one should expect guarantees, but the mathematical models work. They predict streaks will happen, but not when and how, and no-one has yet been able to prove that they can 'bet the streak' better than random. If they could, then the model would need to be updated for the game.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 23rd, 2013 at 10:16:55 PM
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What if there were 100, more or less, different models of dice which individually do not comply to the math of craps for standard dice, but as a group conform to the math showing expected long term results? Naturally for this to work, nobody could visually see the dice were different and none could be so noticeable to be detected within a short period of time and having plausible deniability for luck. If someone was practicing shooting dice for 1,000 hours, they would be thwarted by not having the same dice in their hands they expected. Couldn't these dice just help scoot along table turnover faster? Even if someone were to benefit from the favorable bias, eventually the dice would get them when they're on the wrong side of the bias. I could see a scenario such as this where the math guys and the conspiracy theorists both are right. Maybe I don't understand it all, but there has to be ways to change the game based on the laws and so many things have not been explained such as casinos not testing for dice balance.
If you consider the habits of people to bet more when they lose, biased dice could target these people and give them longer odds than they expect. Any conventional betting habits also have to be examined with biased dice as well to see the possible motives how the casinos can benefit. I can see how the casino being in control of the dice in ways players can't imagine or think illegal could benefit them. There has to be a way to make them for their advantage on capitalizing on player beliefs and misconceptions.
If you consider the habits of people to bet more when they lose, biased dice could target these people and give them longer odds than they expect. Any conventional betting habits also have to be examined with biased dice as well to see the possible motives how the casinos can benefit. I can see how the casino being in control of the dice in ways players can't imagine or think illegal could benefit them. There has to be a way to make them for their advantage on capitalizing on player beliefs and misconceptions.
I am a robot.
July 24th, 2013 at 3:40:02 AM
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Look Jack, dice got serial numbers, they are assigned to a particular table for a limited time and that time can be cut short but not extended. Casinos PAY for dice. And if the dice ain't fair, the casinos will find they are very very expensive dice indeed. Too many people would lose their jobs if crook dice were actually being used.Quote: onenickelmiracleWhat if
You want to dream of super dice go ahead or crooked dice... go ahead. Dream on. But not here.
July 24th, 2013 at 4:11:38 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffLook Jack, dice got serial numbers, they are assigned to a particular table for a limited time and that time can be cut short but not extended. Casinos PAY for dice. And if the dice ain't fair, the casinos will find they are very very expensive dice indeed. Too many people would lose their jobs if crook dice were actually being used.
You want to dream of super dice go ahead or crooked dice... go ahead. Dream on. But not here.
Using some kind of fallacy is lower than thinking about how it could be done or what ways it could be done.
Every day there are people breaking laws even if the math is against their favor, but they do it anyways.
I also believe it would not be the end of their casino, because someone would be blamed for instead of the casino itself. There would be a cover-up. Thirdly, the likelihood of actually proving anything is almost nil because the dice would have to be stolen, a felony, then it would be difficult to actually prove they are still the original dice if a problem was found.
I believe in the possibility, because from these so-called nuts, there are reasonable questions being casually dismissed such as there being no effort to prove the dice in play are legit and the regulatory authorities seem to think it's ok to use biased dice as long as nobody knows how they are biased. Things aren't how they used to be and companies weasel there way out to the point it's virtually guaranteed. The McDonald's Monopoly game was rigged for decades and the punishment for them was not much more than paying the money to random people. Basically even if you tried proving your assumptions, it would do little more than showing how cheap it would be for them to actually pull it off and even if they were caught, I doubt anything past the recent period would even be prosecuted.
I am a robot.
July 24th, 2013 at 4:28:12 AM
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Just play the don'ts if you think they ain't legit or the field if they are 1/6 heavy. Just keep quiet about it. This has all been settled months ago on other threads.
Mission please lock this thread, enough is enough!
Mission please lock this thread, enough is enough!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
July 24th, 2013 at 5:38:27 AM
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Amen. Those who want to dream of robbing Fort Knox can do so... but not here. Those who want to dream about dice schemes can do so, but not here.Quote: DeMangoenough is enough!
July 24th, 2013 at 6:38:40 AM
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Card counters can calculate the advantage they have on particular deals based on the count and change the basic strategy accordingly.
Bias on dice is only measurable based on observations from the current set of dice. Now, you *can* make assumptions that dice are biased by making the following "jump to conclusions" -- let me pull out my mat.
- All dice produced by a manufacturer are biased.
- All dice in a stick of dice are biased in the same way.
If you believe this, it will allow you to show up at a casino with the assumption that the dice are biased and that the bias can be measured from previous observations from dice from the same manufacturer. With those observations you can bet accordingly and have an advantage PROVIDED THAT YOUR ORIGINAL ASSUMPTIONS are true.
There may be a few gamblers who have a long dataset from casinos or have other inside information that show that these dice are biased, but I doubt it. Far more likely is that bias searchers look at the current set of observations and jump to a conclusion that dice are biased based on a short set of observation that doesn't show bias at all -- it's a little more complex than "see a yo, bet a yo".
I have yet to see a crap player on this forum who uses the proper types of analysis to show that dice are biased. It doesn't mean it's not happening. Ahigh's set of observations was the most comprehensive set of data out there but it didn't show any dice bias -- it did show a player bias however.
Bias on dice is only measurable based on observations from the current set of dice. Now, you *can* make assumptions that dice are biased by making the following "jump to conclusions" -- let me pull out my mat.
- All dice produced by a manufacturer are biased.
- All dice in a stick of dice are biased in the same way.
If you believe this, it will allow you to show up at a casino with the assumption that the dice are biased and that the bias can be measured from previous observations from dice from the same manufacturer. With those observations you can bet accordingly and have an advantage PROVIDED THAT YOUR ORIGINAL ASSUMPTIONS are true.
There may be a few gamblers who have a long dataset from casinos or have other inside information that show that these dice are biased, but I doubt it. Far more likely is that bias searchers look at the current set of observations and jump to a conclusion that dice are biased based on a short set of observation that doesn't show bias at all -- it's a little more complex than "see a yo, bet a yo".
I have yet to see a crap player on this forum who uses the proper types of analysis to show that dice are biased. It doesn't mean it's not happening. Ahigh's set of observations was the most comprehensive set of data out there but it didn't show any dice bias -- it did show a player bias however.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
