Questions about being backed off.

Over the weekend I was playing and staying at Mandalay. After about 2 1/2 hours, I was told that they no longer wanted my blackjack action, but I could play craps and poker. They caught me a bit off guard, I had just pressed in to a strong count (but lost quite a bit). They were nice enough, I was never threatened, but I had a few questions for those who've experienced this before.

1. Is this forever? Could I go back there in a few years and play again?
2. Does this hold for other MGM properties? Do they share this info through my player's card? I didn't want to risk it, so I played at Wynn and the Palms after being backed off.
3. They never read me any trespass notice, so I'm assuming I can still go in to their properties. Correct? I still have a ton of points I'd like to use. I'm thinking that might be pushing it.

Anyone experience this before? This put a damper on my weekend, but I'm more concerned about my future. Thanks.

Well, since they welcome you at craps and poker, obviously, you're still welcome in the casino, and therefore at their sister properties. Just not at the BJ table. Whether the BJ ban is just there or at all their properties is something you need to ask them.

I see no reason to not ask them what the details are. As long as you don't have an attitude, they should give you straight-forward answers.

Mind if I ask for more details? I mean, when they asked you to stop playing BJ, did you argue or even ask why? Or did you simply admit that you were counting?

I gotta think that coming right out and admitting it, probably goes a long way towards not getting barred completely. And that means that you should still be able to get your comp rewards - although I wouldn't be surprised if they did a little research and cancelled all your BJ credit.

When they asked me to take my next bet back, I asked why. They said that I've been playing very well and I seemed to have "an advantage". Their term. I was polite to them, as they were to me, so when I asked further, they said they noticed I had been betting big in to strong "counts" and that I left during bad counts. Again, their word. I did acknowledge that of course I had noticed no tens had come up in this particular instance. In the DD game I had been playing, the first two hands out were a six-card 19 for me and a 5 card 20 for them, followed by something like a 5 card 18 for me and a 5 card 20 for them. The boss then said I was welcome at the other games, but not BJ any more. I expressed disappointment and feigned confusion, but gave them no hassles. I was just sort of bummed out, went back to my room with my buddies, and then tried to figure out what it meant for the future.

They did let us keep our UFC seats that our host had provided when we checked in. I just want to be very careful about not really getting banned by playing at any more of their properties.

Good point on just asking. I'll make contact with my host and find out. Sometimes the simple answers are just too obvious. Thanks.

Sorry you got backed off. MGM's computers are probably linked so your actions at the BJ table there are probably linked at the other casinos.

What's more interesting is that they knew you were counting and *they* knew the count. So perhaps Mandalay has some technology that tracks bets versus counts and correlates the two to find "advantage players".

I'm curious... do you mind saying how much you were betting at the time? What spread were you using?

While I certainly believe your account of events, this is not the typical approach of most MGMMirage properties. I've only witnessed two "back offs" in twenty years and one was at Mandalay Bay the other Mirage (MB back-off may have been before the sale to MGM I don't remember). Both times they "flat betted" the player: Giving them the option to continue playing at a flat amount. Both times they were very polite about it. So you would leave the table entirely when the count was bad and come back after the next shuffle? IMHO you can't do this too often if you want to be a "rated" player...especially at the double-deck games. "Wonging" is more effective in the higher house edge shoe games where you can hop in and out (and don't give them your Players Club card for goodness sakes). I think you'll be fine at their other props as long as you're cool about it.

Quote: lucky13

Over the weekend I was playing and staying at Mandalay. After about 2 1/2 hours, I was told that they no longer wanted my blackjack action, but I could play craps and poker. They caught me a bit off guard, I had just pressed in to a strong count (but lost quite a bit). They were nice enough, I was never threatened, but I had a few questions for those who've experienced this before.

1. Is this forever? Could I go back there in a few years and play again?
2. Does this hold for other MGM properties? Do they share this info through my player's card? I didn't want to risk it, so I played at Wynn and the Palms after being backed off.
3. They never read me any trespass notice, so I'm assuming I can still go in to their properties. Correct? I still have a ton of points I'd like to use. I'm thinking that might be pushing it.

Anyone experience this before? This put a damper on my weekend, but I'm more concerned about my future. Thanks.

1. They didn't read the Trespass Act so I don't think it would be "forever." That being said, I'd wait at least a year and maybe a few before I went back. Long enough that whoever backed you off should be working somewhere else. I read once where a guy was backed off a year and went back the day after and they tossed him again within 20 minutes. If you go back say 21 years later play dumb but don't act smart. Say, "I thought that was just for then."

2. They didn't say it held for other places so I'd play but with caution. We live in a society where "what isn't prohibited is permitted" for the most part so let them tell you. I'd not give my players card if I was playing aggressively, though.

3. I wouldn't worry, they came right out and said you were backed off and not barred in so many words. Cash them points in.


Now a side question I have. When you do get "barred" does that mean you cannot play in the casino; cannot enter the casino but can go into one of the restaurants to get one of the sandwiches you like; or can you be arrested for putting so much as your baby toe on the edge of the parking lot?

Quote: AZDuffman

Now a side question I have. When you do get "barred" does that mean you cannot play in the casino; cannot enter the casino but can go into one of the restaurants to get one of the sandwiches you like; or can you be arrested for putting so much as your baby toe on the edge of the parking lot?

In the UK when barred from a particular casino or casino group your business of any kind is no long welcome.

I would assume that with the mega resorts it would be difficult to stop you from entering stores however you would not be welcome when barred on the gaming floor. Set foot into any gaming area and you would be risking a visit from security.

I think....

Some of you need to re-read the original post.


He was backed off of BJ only. And in the same breath, was told we was welcome at craps and poker.

So OBVIOUSLY, he CAN go into the stores, restaurant and even on the casino floor.

I was replying to AZDuffmans question in the post above mine, but forgot to stick the quote in. Ill rectify that.

He was asking about barring.