Card counting
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I'm interested in learning to count cards and have read a little about the KO system. Seems like it is one of the easier counting systems to use. Is it effective enough to give me a noticeable edge and win some money? Not looking to run BJ fill time, so just wondering if it is worth my time. I haven't read the book but and am going off other write ups. 2-7 +1, 10-A -1 start count at -16 for a six deck shoe start betting bigger when count gets to +4. No idea if that is how the system is meant to work.
One question I have is what is a decent bet spread? If I go $10 min is upping it to $50 enough? Should my big bet b the same at +4 vs say + 10? Feels like the higher the count the higher the bet. Thx.
Quote: BrockPhxHi all,
I'm interested in learning to count cards and have read a little about the KO system. Seems like it is one of the easier counting systems to use. Is it effective enough to give me a noticeable edge and win some money? Not looking to run BJ fill time, so just wondering if it is worth my time. I haven't read the book but and am going off other write ups. 2-7 +1, 10-A -1 start count at -16 for a six deck shoe start betting bigger when count gets to +4. No idea if that is how the system is meant to work.
One question I have is what is a decent bet spread? If I go $10 min is upping it to $50 enough? Should my big bet b the same at +4 vs say + 10? Feels like the higher the count the higher the bet. Thx.
Give Hi-Lo a try. If you're not comfortable with true count conversion then go to KO.
Determining a betting spread can be complicated. You must consider the rules of the game you'll be playing as well as heat level, which varies greatly from casino to casino. Spreading $10-$50 may be enough for some single or double deck games, but not nearly enough for six or eight decks.
1) After reading about the Hi-Lo on WizardOfOdds I will give this a shot rather than KO. I don't believe determining the True Count will be a huge problem once I am comfortable with counting. Thank you for the recommendation.
2) With Hi-Lo I didn't read guidance on what True Count (TC) to start raising my bet at. Can anyone help me out here? Example when TC gets to +2 do I raise from $10 to $25 and when it gets to +5 up it to $100 and such? I really have no idea where to start raising (maybe it is as simple as +1 go higher than min bet)
3) I read the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 section at WizardofOdds and understand most of the index. However, forgive my ignorance but I'm still confused by a few indexes that I want to get straight:
Illustrious 18
Index Play Index # Play
1 Ins 3 Yes
2 16-10 0 S
3 15-10 4 S
4 10,10-5 5 P
5 10,10-6 4 P
6 10-10 4 D
7 12-3 2 S
8 12-2 3 S
9 11-A 1 H ???
10 9-2 1 H ???
11 10-A 4 D ???
12 9-7 3 D ???
13 16-9 5 S
14 13-2 -1 S @ -1 & greater
15 12-4 0 S @ 0 & greater
16 12-5 -2 S @ -2 & greater
17 12-6 -1 S @ -2 & greater
18 13-3 -2 S @ -2 & greater
Index 13, normally BS says to hit on my 16 v dealer 9. Illustrious 18 says I should now stand on 16-9 when index is +5 and greater?
Index 14-18: normally BS says to stand on these hands when dealer has X. Illustrious says to STAND at the count listed and greater? Example for Index 16. If the count is -2 I am standing like normal, however, if the index is -1 or less I should actually hit my 12 versus a dealer 5?
Index 13 implies to do something different than BS when the count is greater, but Index 14-18 seem to imply I deviate from BS when count is lower.
Index 9: I have 11 v dealer A. I should only HIT when index is +1 or greater? This is counterintuitive to me as the deck is semi-heavy in 10s/As and dealer has already checked they don't have a 10. BS says to Double this and Illustrious 18 is telling me to only HIT it?
Quote: BrockPhx
2) With Hi-Lo I didn't read guidance on what True Count (TC) to start raising my bet at. Can anyone help me out here? Example when TC gets to +2 do I raise from $10 to $25 and when it gets to +5 up it to $100 and such? I really have no idea where to start raising (maybe it is as simple as +1 go higher than min bet)
Add 0.5% of your bankroll for every TC above +1.
Quote:Index 13, normally BS says to hit on my 16 v dealer 9. Illustrious 18 says I should now stand on 16-9 when index is +5 and greater?
Index 14-18: normally BS says to stand on these hands when dealer has X. Illustrious says to STAND at the count listed and greater? Example for Index 16. If the count is -2 I am standing like normal, however, if the index is -1 or less I should actually hit my 12 versus a dealer 5?
Index 13 implies to do something different than BS when the count is greater, but Index 14-18 seem to imply I deviate from BS when count is lower.
Yes.
Quote:Index 9: I have 11 v dealer A. I should only HIT when index is +1 or greater? This is counterintuitive to me as the deck is semi-heavy in 10s/As and dealer has already checked they don't have a 10. BS says to Double this and Illustrious 18 is telling me to only HIT it?
No, it's the other way around. BS is to hit 11 v A. With TC above +1, the correct play would be to double.
Edit: wow, nice effect :)
Quote: BrockPhx
1.Index 13, normally BS says to hit on my 16 v dealer 9. Illustrious 18 says I should now stand on 16-9 when index is +5 and greater?
2.Index 14-18: normally BS says to stand on these hands when dealer has X. Illustrious says to STAND at the count listed and greater? Example for Index 16. If the count is -2 I am standing like normal, however, if the index is -1 or less I should actually hit my 12 versus a dealer 5?
3.Index 13 implies to do something different than BS when the count is greater, but Index 14-18 seem to imply I deviate from BS when count is lower.
4.Index 9: I have 11 v dealer A. I should only HIT when index is +1 or greater? This is counterintuitive to me as the deck is semi-heavy in 10s/As and dealer has already checked they don't have a 10. BS says to Double this and Illustrious 18 is telling me to only HIT it?
1.BS says hit, but if count is +5, +6, +7 etc... means theres a lot of big cards u should stand or u will likely to burst( however u will still lose anyway lol)
2. -1 isnt lesser than -2... XD , -3 u should hit because there is more small cards( however u will get critisize heavily if u burst and actually if not the dealer will burst lol)
3. u get confuse on negative sign.... like question number 2.
4. I think u get confuse
Just FYI, I made this post as a reply to a post way up the thread, so I don't know how it wound up looking like this.
Quote: DocNow that's an interesting twist on post formatting. What's going on?
Looks like the OP did not close the table tag.
Thx for staightenng me out on the illustrious 18 table. I think I got. :)
- Jump to:
| Index[\COL] | Play[\COL] | Index #[\COL] | Play[\COL] |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ins | 3 | Yes |
| 2 | 16-10 | 0 | S |
| 3 | 15-10 | 4 | S |
| 4 | 10,10-5 | 5 | P |
| 5 | 10,10-6 | 4 | P |
| 6 | 10-10 | 4 | D |
| 7 | 12-3 | 2 | S |
| 8 | 12-2 | 3 | S |
| 9 | 11-A | 1 | H ??? |
| 10 | 9-2 | 1 | H ??? |
| 11 | 10-A | 4 | D ??? |
| 12 | 9-7 | 3 | D ??? |
| 13 | 16-9 | 5 | S |
| 14 | 13-2 | -1 | S @ -1 & greater |
| 15 | 12-4 | 0 | S @ 0 & greater |
| 16 | 12-5 | -2 | S @ -2 & greater |
| 17 | 12-6 | -1 | S @ -2 & greater |
| 18 | 13-3 | -2 | S @ -2 & greater |