Card counting

Hi all,

I'm interested in learning to count cards and have read a little about the KO system. Seems like it is one of the easier counting systems to use. Is it effective enough to give me a noticeable edge and win some money? Not looking to run BJ fill time, so just wondering if it is worth my time. I haven't read the book but and am going off other write ups. 2-7 +1, 10-A -1 start count at -16 for a six deck shoe start betting bigger when count gets to +4. No idea if that is how the system is meant to work.

One question I have is what is a decent bet spread? If I go $10 min is upping it to $50 enough? Should my big bet b the same at +4 vs say + 10? Feels like the higher the count the higher the bet. Thx.

With that bet spread, what are your current expectations of how much you can win?

Quote: BrockPhx

Hi all,

I'm interested in learning to count cards and have read a little about the KO system. Seems like it is one of the easier counting systems to use. Is it effective enough to give me a noticeable edge and win some money? Not looking to run BJ fill time, so just wondering if it is worth my time. I haven't read the book but and am going off other write ups. 2-7 +1, 10-A -1 start count at -16 for a six deck shoe start betting bigger when count gets to +4. No idea if that is how the system is meant to work.

One question I have is what is a decent bet spread? If I go $10 min is upping it to $50 enough? Should my big bet b the same at +4 vs say + 10? Feels like the higher the count the higher the bet. Thx.

Give Hi-Lo a try. If you're not comfortable with true count conversion then go to KO.

Determining a betting spread can be complicated. You must consider the rules of the game you'll be playing as well as heat level, which varies greatly from casino to casino. Spreading $10-$50 may be enough for some single or double deck games, but not nearly enough for six or eight decks.

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Thanks for the responses everyone. My expecatations are not super high. If I up my spread from $10 - $100 I would be happy with a session of around +$100. I realize even with a good deck that gives me a slight positive expectation there will still be a lot of swings negative/positive. The same swings that allow me to win while the casino has the advantage will work against me at times. Couple additional points:

1) After reading about the Hi-Lo on WizardOfOdds I will give this a shot rather than KO. I don't believe determining the True Count will be a huge problem once I am comfortable with counting. Thank you for the recommendation.

2) With Hi-Lo I didn't read guidance on what True Count (TC) to start raising my bet at. Can anyone help me out here? Example when TC gets to +2 do I raise from $10 to $25 and when it gets to +5 up it to $100 and such? I really have no idea where to start raising (maybe it is as simple as +1 go higher than min bet)

3) I read the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4 section at WizardofOdds and understand most of the index. However, forgive my ignorance but I'm still confused by a few indexes that I want to get straight:

Illustrious 18
Index Play Index # Play
1 Ins 3 Yes
2 16-10 0 S
3 15-10 4 S
4 10,10-5 5 P
5 10,10-6 4 P
6 10-10 4 D
7 12-3 2 S
8 12-2 3 S
9 11-A 1 H ???
10 9-2 1 H ???
11 10-A 4 D ???
12 9-7 3 D ???
13 16-9 5 S
14 13-2 -1 S @ -1 & greater
15 12-4 0 S @ 0 & greater
16 12-5 -2 S @ -2 & greater
17 12-6 -1 S @ -2 & greater
18 13-3 -2 S @ -2 & greater

Index 13, normally BS says to hit on my 16 v dealer 9. Illustrious 18 says I should now stand on 16-9 when index is +5 and greater?

Index 14-18: normally BS says to stand on these hands when dealer has X. Illustrious says to STAND at the count listed and greater? Example for Index 16. If the count is -2 I am standing like normal, however, if the index is -1 or less I should actually hit my 12 versus a dealer 5?

Index 13 implies to do something different than BS when the count is greater, but Index 14-18 seem to imply I deviate from BS when count is lower.

Index 9: I have 11 v dealer A. I should only HIT when index is +1 or greater? This is counterintuitive to me as the deck is semi-heavy in 10s/As and dealer has already checked they don't have a 10. BS says to Double this and Illustrious 18 is telling me to only HIT it?