Poll

3 votes (60%)
2 votes (40%)

5 members have voted

WilliamofOrange
WilliamofOrange
Joined: May 31, 2017
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June 1st, 2017 at 6:00:29 PM permalink
Would you rather all the blackjack tables in the world turn into 6:5 pays or stay 3:2 but with continuous shuffler?

This question is for card counters only (regular players don't care about shuffle methods)
QFIT
QFIT
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 1st, 2017 at 6:08:50 PM permalink
Depends on the CSM design, exactly how it's used, other rules, heat, and jurisdiction. (Some countries that use CSMs will not allow bans without good cause and have lost bans in court.) But, the poll could be re-titled : "Would you rather be eaten by a shark or run over by a bulldozer?"

Ahh, and CSMs are slightly better for non-counters.
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
WilliamofOrange
WilliamofOrange
Joined: May 31, 2017
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June 1st, 2017 at 7:52:47 PM permalink
Well at least 6:5 is still countable right?
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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June 1st, 2017 at 7:56:26 PM permalink
Quote: WilliamofOrange

Well at least 6:5 is still countable right?


Yes, just with a much higher house edge.
DRich
DRich
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June 1st, 2017 at 8:12:29 PM permalink
If you can Wong in and out of a 6:5 game with no repercussions play it all day long.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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June 1st, 2017 at 8:44:16 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

If you can Wong in and out of a 6:5 game with no repercussions play it all day long.



Wonging in and out wont matter if its a 6:5 game unless youre playing +4 and higher in general. That's the only way you'll beat a 6:5 game 'counting'. You also won't have much of a win rate unless you're betting huge amounts due to the lack of frequency of these counts.

The thing about 6:5 games is that other opportunities can arise because of new dealers on these games and because these games are not closely watched due to the pit bosses knowing no counter is gonna waste their time on it. The thing is though, if you get an inexperienced dealer on a pitch 6:5 game for example, you might be able to find a good holecarding opportunity and be able to expose it for a good length of time if you're not greedy. Maybe this new dealer might shuffle improperly and not have a 'strip' in the shuffle or maybe they put the 'strip' in too early rather than late leaving the game to be able to be 'sequenced'.

Hole carding or sequencing a 6:5 game trumps any good 3:2 counting game. Its the same logic with CSMs, pit bosses don't hawk the game and put inexperienced dealers on these games and can provide other opportunities.
Wong Halves Full Indices ------------ LoneWoLF >
WilliamofOrange
WilliamofOrange
Joined: May 31, 2017
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June 1st, 2017 at 9:52:12 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Wonging in and out wont matter if its a 6:5 game unless youre playing +4 and higher in general. That's the only way you'll beat a 6:5 game 'counting'. You also won't have much of a win rate unless you're betting huge amounts due to the lack of frequency of these counts.

The thing about 6:5 games is that other opportunities can arise because of new dealers on these games and because these games are not closely watched due to the pit bosses knowing no counter is gonna waste their time on it. The thing is though, if you get an inexperienced dealer on a pitch 6:5 game for example, you might be able to find a good holecarding opportunity and be able to expose it for a good length of time if you're not greedy. Maybe this new dealer might shuffle improperly and not have a 'strip' in the shuffle or maybe they put the 'strip' in too early rather than late leaving the game to be able to be 'sequenced'.

Hole carding or sequencing a 6:5 game trumps any good 3:2 counting game. Its the same logic with CSMs, pit bosses don't hawk the game and put inexperienced dealers on these games and can provide other opportunities.



Now wait a minute, are you sure +4 gets you break even in 6:5? I'm aware in general for every true count in 3:2 the player edge goes up by about 0.6%, however, most of that comes from higher chance of a player blackjack.

In 6:5, you get short paid when you hit a blackjack that you have a higher chance of because of the count. So does higher count increase PE anywhere even close to as much as it does in 3:2?
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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June 1st, 2017 at 11:01:05 PM permalink
Quote: WilliamofOrange

Now wait a minute, are you sure +4 gets you break even in 6:5? I'm aware in general for every true count in 3:2 the player edge goes up by about 0.6%, however, most of that comes from higher chance of a player blackjack.

In 6:5, you get short paid when you hit a blackjack that you have a higher chance of because of the count. So does higher count increase PE anywhere even close to as much as it does in 3:2?



Well the first true count is not linear. TC +1 goes up about .75% and not the NORMAL .5% estimate.
Wong Halves Full Indices ------------ LoneWoLF >
QFIT
QFIT
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June 3rd, 2017 at 8:52:41 AM permalink
Quote: WilliamofOrange

Now wait a minute, are you sure +4 gets you break even in 6:5? I'm aware in general for every true count in 3:2 the player edge goes up by about 0.6%, however, most of that comes from higher chance of a player blackjack.

In 6:5, you get short paid when you hit a blackjack that you have a higher chance of because of the count. So does higher count increase PE anywhere even close to as much as it does in 3:2?



Not really. Most of the difference in 6:5 is off the top. Increase in EV by count using six decks, H17, DAS, HiLo Ill18:

TC       3:2     6:5
10 0.55% 0.51%
9 0.70% 0.64%
8 0.58% 0.57%
7 0.75% 0.54%
6 0.63% 0.59%
5 0.67% 0.66%
4 0.56% 0.49%
3 0.52% 0.47%
2 0.55% 0.46%
1 0.76% 0.69%
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
Romes
Romes
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June 5th, 2017 at 7:16:48 AM permalink
I actually don't think either way is a bad idea... Because in the end what the casino will see either way is a massive drop in BJ play/hold. Then regular players and counters alike can sit back and say "well good for you, freaking out about counters on your $5 game making $12.50/hour..."
Playing it correctly means you've already won.

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