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Winning with Standard Deviation

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August 17th, 2010 at 10:30:11 AM permalink
cals5839
Member since: Jul 4, 2010
Threads: 1
Posts: 2
If I play perfect blackjack and have an adequate bankroll (100 times average bet), standard deviation tells me that
sometime before my bankroll is depleted, I will ahead by 50%. If I quit with a 25% profit. I am a sure winner.

The question is: do the laws of standard deviation continue into my next session where they left off in this one?

If I cash out and go to another table with my original bankroll, do the law of chance rewind and start over with me?

Cal
August 17th, 2010 at 10:47:48 AM permalink
rdw4potus
Member since: Mar 11, 2010
Threads: 57
Posts: 1976
No, the statistical conditions don't start over. Your results were close to completely random at the first table, and they'll be close to completely random at the second table as well. No matter how much time or distance is between your playing sessions, you're adding to the same set of results and not starting a new set.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
August 17th, 2010 at 11:28:09 AM permalink
mkl654321
Member since: Aug 8, 2010
Threads: 65
Posts: 3412
Quote: cals5839
If I play perfect blackjack and have an adequate bankroll (100 times average bet), standard deviation tells me that
sometime before my bankroll is depleted, I will ahead by 50%. If I quit with a 25% profit. I am a sure winner.

The question is: do the laws of standard deviation continue into my next session where they left off in this one?

If I cash out and go to another table with my original bankroll, do the law of chance rewind and start over with me?

Cal


"Playing session" is an illusion. In reality, you only have one long playing session. What, as a practical matter, is the difference between your next hand being in five seconds, in three days, or in six months?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
August 17th, 2010 at 11:59:08 AM permalink
cals5839
Member since: Jul 4, 2010
Threads: 1
Posts: 2
Thanks for the input. It is what I guessed. But it seems rather hazy to me. If the odds of a coin coming up heads is independent of the results of the last flip, why isn't every set of 100 flips independent of the last set of 100?

Cal.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:02:32 PM permalink
dwheatley
Member since: Nov 16, 2009
Threads: 10
Posts: 550
Unless those sets of flips overlap (or you discover you are using a biased coin), they ARE independent.

Also, in the original post, you are never guaranteed to be ahead. It is quite possible that you lose your first hand, never get ahead for that session, and lose your session bankroll before ever seeing positive results.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
August 17th, 2010 at 12:26:31 PM permalink
Triplell
Member since: Aug 13, 2010
Threads: 6
Posts: 318
People often confuse events and long-term probability.

Each event is independent of eachother, however when calculating probability and standard deviation, the calculations are based on long term string of events.

It seems like the reality is often forgotten when people gamble. The reality is you're flipping a coin over and over again with the casino. When the casino wins, you lose $10. When you win, you receive $9.85. Sometimes you'll win 10x in a row, other times you'll lose 10x in a row, however on average, you can expect that you'll win about as many times as you lose. However, notice that if you flip the coin 1000x and you win 50% of the time, you lose $5000 and you win $4925, with a loss of $75. This is why casino's are open 24/7 and they always make money.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:51:40 PM permalink
PapaChubby
Member since: Mar 29, 2010
Threads: 9
Posts: 344
Quote: cals5839
If I play perfect blackjack and have an adequate bankroll (100 times average bet), standard deviation tells me that
sometime before my bankroll is depleted, I will ahead by 50%. If I quit with a 25% profit. I am a sure winner.


This statement is totally untrue.
November 25th, 2010 at 12:44:00 PM permalink
Ramond
Member since: Nov 8, 2010
Threads: 10
Posts: 34
I can not totally agree. Let's we have a coin and flip it 100.000.000 times.

I no for sure, after 100.000.000 coin flips we don't see exactly 50.000.000 time tail. It will be close to 50.000.000 but because of the standard deviation the outcome is another number.

We can say the same for blackjack... looking at a player flat betting and using basic strategy.. doing 100.000.000 sessions and play.. let's say 1.000.000.000.000 hands.
The chance he has lost money at the end of that 1.000.000.000.000 is bigger then a win but still... because of the standard deviation he can be up and have a small win in the end.

Some people are just a but more lucky.. also in the long, long run.. just a bit more lucky.

But I agree, talking in 'sessions' means nothing.. because when you gamble.. the end of the session is when you die or quitte gambling.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:06:41 PM permalink
SanchoPanza
Member since: May 10, 2010
Threads: 24
Posts: 736
Quote: mkl654321
"Playing session" is an illusion. In reality, you only have one long playing session. What, as a practical matter, is the difference between your next hand being in five seconds, in three days, or in six months?

Even the Internal Revenue Service is unable to respond logically on that one.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:37:08 PM permalink
FleaStiff
Member since: Oct 19, 2009
Threads: 75
Posts: 4834
Quote: cals5839
The question is: do the laws of standard deviation continue into my next session where they left off in this one?
Think of it as a coin being automatically tossed by a machine with perhaps a dozen bettors all standing around making bets on it. Suddenly you decide to "end your session" and come back later. Would you really call out to the coin to "hold them standard deviations in memory, I'll be right back" What if an additional player walks up? Does he start at the next flip? If he has been watching but not betting, would you really ask if the standard deviation is held in abeyance for awhile?

The house edge is like the law of gravity: it always is applicable. There is no escape. There are expectations. You can get lucky. You can get unlucky. In other words, the emotionally relevant session may start with your making a bet but the statistically relevant session started long ago and will continue for a long time: each flip of the coin, each spin of the wheel, each roll of the dice ... are all alike. You may remember the last coin toss, but the coin does not.

Your next session at Blackjack can start whenever you want. The dealer may remember you, the waitress may remember you, surveillance may remember you, but them cards don't.
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