How does this work? Are there any other dual-casinos that operate under one license (Palazzo and Encore I'm assuming)? What governance is there over this, could Harrah's buy Casino Royale and collapse the license into Harrah's?
Just curious, as in my mind, I always considered them distinct.
Quote: dlevinelawThis has been mentioned in a few previous threads, and touched upon by the Wiz in his flamingo review, but by my understanding, O'Sheas is for all intents and purposes a part of the Flamingo. Same license, though I guess it isn't technically attached.
How does this work? Are there any other dual-casinos that operate under one license (Palazzo and Encore I'm assuming)? What governance is there over this, could Harrah's buy Casino Royale and collapse the license into Harrah's?
Just curious, as in my mind, I always considered them distinct.
No idea though my understanding is you would not want to collapse a license as they have some value on their own.
Wynn-Encore
Venetian-Palazzo
Flaimingo-O'Shae's
I think from a business and Gaming standpoint, they are the same casino.
The case of Paris-Ballys I'm not sure how to define. I think they use the same chips, and the slot tickets say "Bally's Paris," but Gaming lists them separately.
I can confirm that chips at Bally's are usable at Paris and vice versa. Is there a rule about interchangability of chips from one casino to another?
ken
There IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.Quote: kenspauldingIs there a rule about interchangability of chips from one casino to another?
That sort of thing wouldn't fly in A.C. In fact, there's a LOT of stuff that happens in Vegas casinos that would never happen in A.C.
For example, it's standard practice to get chips from the cage before sitting down to poker. So I was at Binion's and asked about seating. She said there was an open seat, so I asked where the cage was. She simply took a key from her pocket and opened a desk drawer full of cash and chips and asked, "How much?" No security, supervisor or co-worker nearby. Heck, not even a wall or counter to keep me from reaching into the drawer! I'm still shocked at that.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThere IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.
That sort of thing wouldn't fly in A.C. In fact, there's a LOT of stuff that happens in Vegas casinos that would never happen in A.C.
For example, it's standard practice to get chips from the cage before sitting down to poker. So I was at Binion's and asked the poker manager about seating. She said there was an open seat, so I asked where the cage was. She simply took a key from her pocket and opened a desk drawer full of cash and chips and asked, "How much?" No security, supervisor or co-worker nearby. Heck, not even a wall or counter to keep me from reaching into the drawer! I'm still shocked at that.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThere IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.
Funny, that. Once at Harrah's, some guy sits down with a stack of reds and starts playing Let It Ride. About halfway through his stack he puts out a Flamingo $5. The dealer notices and says, "You can't use those here," and starts going through the guy's stack, weeding out the Flamingo chips. The guy said, "Well, you're both Harrah's properties, what's the big deal?" The dealer's response basically revolved around "Doesn't matter, that's the rules," but he pulled about four or five Flamingo chips out, replaced them with Harrah's chips, and dropped the Flamingo chips.
I think these are the relevant gaming regs:
12.060 Use of chips and tokens.
2. A licensee that uses chips or tokens at its gaming establishment shall:
(e) Take reasonable steps, including examining chips and tokens and segregating those issued by other licensees to prevent the issuance to its patrons of chips and tokens issued by another licensee.
5. A licensee shall not knowingly issue, use, permit the use of, or redeem chips or tokens issued by another licensee, except as follows:
(a) A licensee may redeem tokens issued by another licensee if:
(1) The tokens are presented by a patron for redemption to a cashier of the licensee’s gaming establishment or, in the case of a location having slot machines operated by a licensed operator of a slot machine route, if a patron presents them to the operator’s employee at the location; or
(2) The tokens are presented by a patron at a table game; and
(3) The licensee redeems the tokens with tokens of its own, separates and properly accounts for the redeemed tokens during the count performed pursuant to the licensee’s system of internal control required by Regulation 6, and places the redeemed tokens in the table’s drop box, if redeemed at a table game; and
(b) A licensee may redeem chips issued by another licensee if:
(1) The chips are presented by a patron for redemption at the cashier’s cage of the licensee’s gaming establishment; or
(2) The chips are presented by a patron at a table game, and the licensee redeems the chips with chips of its own, places the redeemed chips in the table’s drop box, and separates and properly accounts for the redeemed chips during the count performed pursuant to the licensee’s system of internal control submitted pursuant to Regulation 6.050 or 6.060; and
(c) An operator of a slot machine route or its employee may redeem tokens that are issued by the operator for use at another location.
IANAL, but it seems pretty cut and dried. The guy at Flamingo shouldn't have been giving out Harrah's chips, because they're different licenses, even though they're the same owner. I think it has to do with accounting and cash-on-hand requirements as put forth elsewhere in the gaming regs.
Two items on this thread caught my eye. First with regard to dual licenses, I recently read somewhere (perhaps on another thread here) that the Slots-A-Fun license had been merged with the Circus Circus license. I think I read that it is now “Slots-A-Fun at Circus Circus,” that they had to close at least briefly for some NGC accounting matter, and that they had to change out their chips. If true, that would add another to the list provided by the Wiz. It also raises the question of whether they really now have chips stating the long name, in which case I would need to get another souvenir for my collection (much like the way I have both South Coast and South Point and both Barbary Coast and Bill’s.) Anyone know more about the situation at Slots-A-Fun (and I am not referring to it’s being a zoo)?
Second, just my two cents worth on exchanging chips in another casino: my experience has been that small chips from other Vegas casinos are readily swapped at most tables but that for larger chips they ask you to swap them at the cage, where there is no problem. I once swapped a $25 Luxor chip at one of the places in Primm, but down there they asked me to take even that one to the cage. The teller looked it up to make certain it was still a current Luxor chip, but she had no problem accepting it.
Now, there's a reference source I'd like to know about. Where did she look it up? In a book, or online? (What's the website?)Quote: DocThe teller looked it up to make certain it was still a current Luxor chip....
Quote: WizardHere are the dual licenses I'm aware of:
Wynn-Encore
Venetian-Palazzo
Flaimingo-O'Shae's
I think from a business and Gaming standpoint, they are the same casino.
The case of Paris-Ballys I'm not sure how to define. I think they use the same chips, and the slot tickets say "Bally's Paris," but Gaming lists them separately.
Paris/Bally operated under one license from the opening of Paris until roughly spring of 2008. Then they applied and got separate licenses. They still have the chips from when they operated apart.
Venetian/Palazzo and Wynn/Encore and Flamingo/Oshea's operate under single licenses. Slots of Fun has been operating under it's own license
Since SLOTS-A-FUN was listed under this database of square feet it was under a separate license as of end of June 2009. Because it is not listed separately under database of game counts which is updated as of December 2009 it looks like they merged their license with Circus Circus.
A blog written by a fan of SLOTS-A-FUN reported the rebranding.
Quote: DJTeddyBearNow, there's a reference source I'd like to know about. Where did she look it up? In a book, or online? (What's the website?)
She used a computer in the cage -- I remember because she had to re-boot and apologized for the delay. She did not say anything about whether it was an internal database, something shared by casinos, or something publicly available. I, too, would be interested.
And yes, pacomartin, that blog and some related reports are where I read about the change supposedly happening last summer. Does anyone know what the Slots-A-Fun chips are like now?
I have cross checked the database with the physical casino, and there are inconsistencies. So neither database is perfect.
Quote: 7outlineawayAlso, as of a couple weeks ago Slots-a-Fun was using Circus Circus chips.
I believe that if they operate under one license they must license the same chips. Although there may be chips that say Wynn and others that say Encore, technically they are interchangeable.
The Gaming commission said that originally the two casinos had to be connected by an indoor hallway, but they relaxed that rule at some date. It allowed them to make Slots-A-Fun just a portion of Circus circus.
Casinos realize players get a bit buzzed and like to wander. The first time I offered foreign chips at a craps table I was too buzzed to even realize it and had no idea which casino I was in at the time.
I think there was a firm that went around settling up all the foreign chips, but I'm not sure of this. I doubt it was the same guy that went around to churches and converted their donation-plate chips to cash. He was supposedly referred to as Brother Chip.
The casino commission releases a monthly report on the 39 Vegas strip licenses that make over $1 million per year
(1) 22 > $72 million per year
(2) 7 > $36 million per year < $72 m
(3) 7 > $12 million per year < $36 m
(4) 3 > $1 million per year < $12 m
(5) 4 < $1 million per year but are still unrestricted licenses
For fiscal year 2010 which ended last June 30th there were 23 casinos that made over $72 million that year
Las Vegas Strip | |
---|---|
MGM Resorts Inc | |
1 | ARIA RESORT & CASINO |
2 | BELLAGIO |
3 | EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO |
4 | MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO |
5 | MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO |
6 | MIRAGE, THE |
7 | MONTE CARLO RESORT & CASINO |
8 | NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO |
9 | LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO |
Ceasars Inc | |
10 | CAESARS PALACE |
11 | BALLY'S LAS VEGAS |
12 | FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS/O'SHEAS |
13 | HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS |
14 | PARIS LAS VEGAS |
15 | PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO |
16 | RIO SUITE HOTEL & CASINO |
Other Corporations | |
17 | GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO |
18 | PALMS CASINO RESORT |
19 | TREASURE ISLAND |
20 | VENETIAN CASINO RESORT |
21 | WYNN LAS VEGAS |
22 | PALACE STATION HOTEL (in City of LV) |
23 | LAS VEGAS HILTON |
In FY2011 there are only 22 casinos in this category, so I assume that the Las Vegas Hilton was the casino that fell below $72 million.
The other 16 over $1 million (without putting them into more detailed income groups) are:
1 | BILL'S GAMBLIN' HALL & SALOON |
---|---|
2 | CASINO ROYALE |
3 | CASUARINA CASINO LAS VEGAS |
4 | CIRCUS CIRCUS HOTEL (>$72M in FY08) |
5 | ELLIS ISLAND CASINO |
6 | HARD ROCK HOTEL & CASINO |
7 | HOOTERS CASINO HOTEL |
8 | IMPERIAL PALACE HOTEL (>$72M in FY09) |
9 | RIVIERA HOTEL & CASINO |
10 | SAHARA HOTEL & CASINO |
11 | TERRIBLE'S HOTEL AND CASINO |
12 | TROPICANA RESORT AND CASINO |
13 | TUSCANY LAS VEGAS |
14 | WILD WILD WEST GAMBLING HALL |
15 | PALMS CASINO - SPORTS POOL |
16 | AIRPORT SLOT CONCESSION |
In previous years Bally's and Paris were under one license, and Slots-A-Fun was under it's own license. Oshea's was never under it's own license. RIVIERA casinos also has the SPORTS POOL under a separate license, but they do not make more than $1 million per year.