Table limits on roulette in vegas

I have not been to Vegas since 1989. Please tell me the common roulette table limits of the major casinos. If you have time and don't mind please include minor casinos also.

I'm particularly interested in the inside bets. Can I bet $525 on one number and if so, how many other numbers can I bet $525 on without reaching a table limit?

I am preparing to challenge Michael Bluejay (probably in March of 2011). I know his challenge only allows a 1x to 500x spread but I still need to know if Vegas allows a $525 bet on 12 different numbers at once for a total of $6300.00 on the table.

Thanks

Are you talking about the $30,000 Betting System Challenge?

https://easy.vegas/gambling/betting-system-challenge

yes I plan on challenging him with $1000.

I would think $6300 at once on the table wouldn't be a problem, particulary in the high limit rooms. Only thing is you would have to start with $100 min bets in those rooms.

I don't know what the system is, but if you needed to start lower and press up, I guess you could start at one table, once you hit the limit, pick up and move to the high limit room.

You are probably out of luck unless you apply for a special exemption with the floor manager.

Most major hotels have a $200/number limit on inside action on the floor. I believe (but am not sure) that you can generally go up to $500/number in the high limit room as a "walk on" (i.e. someone they have never seen before).

If you do plan on betting over $500 a number, it's unlikely you will just walk into a random casino, pull thousands out of your pocket, buy into the game, and then start betting. You will most likely have to deposit your money in the cage and then draw markers.

I don't know definitively, but it has been my experience that if you have the $$$'s, you can easily get an exemption to go up to $500 in a low limit floor pit, $1,000 in a high limit floor pit, and $3,000 in the high limit lounge.

My advice would be to scout the casinos and pick the one you are most comfortable with. Then, meet the casino/floor manager, explain what you want to do, and then make arrangements to deposit your money and play with higher limits.

I just read the terms of the challenge.

I think that the table minimums will be just as big an issue as the table maximum. If you get a special exemption to bet more than $200/number, don't expect to sit there making $5 initial bets. Your minimum bet will most likely have to be $100. I think what you are looking for is the maximum spread you can get, not necessarity the highest limit.

For all practical purposes, I think the best you will be able to find is $5 minimum up to $200/number. You might be able to negotiate a $5 to $500 game, but that would be the exception, not the rule. I think it would violate the terms of the challenge, but I'm not sure.

i took a look at his page

"Bet spread and Bankroll. The largest bet in your system can be no more than 500 times the smallest bet. (e.g., $1 to $500, or $5 to $2,500, etc.) This is generous, since it's rare to enjoy that kind of spread in a casino. In craps, this largest bet is for initial bets (e.g., pass line bets), not odds bets. Odds bets are 3-4-5 and limited by the amount of the pass line bet. A bet need not be placed on every round, but one billion rounds must be wagered on in total for the test to be complete. No more than 100 rounds may pass without a bet being made. Bankroll isn't a factor -- we'll assume you always have enough money to place your next bet."

craps definitely seems like the best game to try this system on. playing the dont pass and laying odds, your minbet would be $5 while your max bet would be $17,500 ($2500 and laying $15,000 in odds). plus odds bets have zero house edge. if theres any chance of beating his challenge, it would be craps with odds.

Thanks. I can stay within the $200/number limit in a casino. But I am trying to maximum my chances of winning the challenge with the rules as stated (with a 1 - 500x spread). That is to my advantage but Michael Bluejay also says the 'system' has to be able to be used in an actual Vegas casino. So if an actual Vegas casino won't allow you to bet $500 on any one number, then I may not be able to use that spread. I'll ask at the time I make the challenge but I will be prepared to do it either way. He did indicate that he knows his spread is generous as compared to Vegas so I would almost assume he will still allow it. I am going to the local casino today to check the limits on Rapid Roulette. It may be that that game allows the spread within its limits.

Also to my advantage is using the European wheel. I believe I can beat both and after I win the challenge using the European wheel I hope he will run it against the American wheel for free. It's the least he could do for someone who has put his money where his mouth is and also one who proves Einstein wrong again:

"No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." — Albert Einstein (as quoted on the wizardofodds website.

Thanks for the advice to switch to craps. Although I had one day that I turned $200 into $10,000 in two hours playing craps, I don't play well. I made mostly bad bets and got lucky.

I don't like the game of roulette but I have watched many spins and ran them against my betting strategy. I only call it a system when I am trying to keep coworkers from asking too many questions. Then I laugh it off as if I have nothing worth their attentions. After I came up with what I believe to be a valid way of consistently winning at roulette(a few years ago), I started studying other strategies and systems to see if any were similar. Only one was similar but it did not attack the game from the same angle as mine. There was nothing for me to learn from that system.

It would be worth losing the challenge for $1000 than to sit on it for years without knowing it is a waste of time. I don't like playing roulette enough to keep going to casinos to play it. I have downloaded the file that contains 1,000,000 spins from a random number geerator and I am going to test my strategy against the 119 pages of that. I may not make it through all 119 pages but I'll keep going until I have a feel for how my challenge will fare.

Quote: chifool55

Also to my advantage is using the European wheel.

While my main game is craps, I really enjoy playing roulette, especially the european wheel.

I should warn you, that the european wheel is normally found only in the high limit rooms. I can not think of one which allows $1 minimum inside bets. The Stratosphere used to, but they had a $100 maximum inside cap and they have closed their wheel a few years ago. Normally the european wheel in high limit rooms require the play of $5 or $25 chips for the inside and will require a minimum total of $50 (slow times) to $100-$200 of total action during busy periods.

The maximum posted inside bet during slow times is usually $200 and $500 at busy times. I have requested and gotten that changed in the past, but I was an established customer with a line of credit at the casino.

I wish you the best of luck with your system. Let us know how it goes and if you win the challenge.

thanks 'gambler' for the well wishes and info. I am challenging mostly for personal satisfaction. If I win, Michael Bluejay offered to make it known to everyone on his site. Perhaps the Wizard will also. I will quickly post a "I beat the challenge" in this forum if it still exists at that time. I have no intention of selling the strategy if it is successful. I just want credit for doing something that most believe can't be done. The casinos would quickly adjust to it, I'm sure, if many people started using my strategy to beat them.

Quote: chifool55

I have downloaded the file that contains 1,000,000 spins from a random number geerator and I am going to test my strategy against the 119 pages of that.

"The" file that contains 1,000,000 spins...

It sounds like you've only tested your system using this one set of random numbers. Granted, a million spins is a lot, but it's still a specific million spins.

Can you get a second set of a million spins?

If not, go to www.random.org

There you can generate as many random number files as you want - 10,000 numbers at a time. They use a combination of the exact time of the request (for uniqueness), as well as atmospheric noise (for true randomness), to seed their RNG.

You can bet $500 straight up on the number at the Aria,
You can bet $1000 straight up on the number at the MGM on one of the single zero wheels on the floor and in the high limit room.

If you want higher limits, then talk to your host and put up your money in advance at the casino cage.

The following casinos will usually go up to the following if you put up enough money.

Straight up bets:
MGM 1k
Caesars 3k
Mandaly, Mirage, Bellagio, Aria 1k to 2k
Wynn, Encore 2k
Venetian, Pallazo 2k
Hard Rock 1k

To those that have run simulations, is 1M spins enough? I'd think that it would be. However, the challenge calls for 1 billion spins. Is it possible that a system could work over 1M spins, but fail beyond there?

I think he also needs to know:

A - The minimum on any single inside number.
B - The combined minimum.
C - The combined maximum.

Quote: ruascott

To those that have run simulations, is 1M spins enough? I'd think that it would be. However, the challenge calls for 1 billion spins. Is it possible that a system could work over 1M spins, but fail beyond there?

In the world of progression based systems, 1 millions spins is nothing. You could construct a progression based system that would have better than a 10 to 1 chance of beating the challenge over 1 million bets. Remember: You don't have to have an iron clad system to beat the challenge. The challenge is offering 10 to 1 odds. Any system you come up with that will beat it more than 1 time out of 10 is a good bet.

You could possibly do it with 10 million spins. Note that one of the requirements is that you must WAGER the specified number of spins. You can wait up to 100 spins in order to figure out what to bet, but the skipped spins do not count in the total.

No chance with 100 million or more placed bets. Well, that's not quite true. There is a chance you would be ahead, but it is well out of the realm of 10 to 1 odds.

1 billion spins? Forget it. Won't happen.

But, it's fun to try.

i would play the dont pass in craps and lay odds. as i understood it, i can bet $10 for my min bet and $5000 as my max bet and be able to lay $30,000 given 3x4x5x odds if i made a dontpass bet of $5000.

here would be the stipulations i would argue for if i was going for this challenge:

1)if you are exactly even or up any amount, you win the wager. if you are down any amount, he wins the wager.
2)a dont pass bet and an odds bet count as two separate rounds of wagering.
3)a round of wagering is not complete until a decision is reached.
4)assuming your minbet is $10, you are allowed to lay $12 odds on a point regardless of which point is established.
5)before you place a bet, if you are up one unit or greater, a dont pass bet will count as the billionth round of wagering.
6)before you place a bet, if you are up less than one unit or down any amount, only an odds bet can count as the billionth round of wagering. so in other words, you must first establish a point on the dont pass. if you are on the billionth round of wagering or greater, you will be required to lay max odds if you are up less than one unit or down any amount.

my strategy:

before you place a bet if you are up less than $10 to down $40, bet $10 as your dont pass bet and once a point is established, lay max odds. for being down greater than $40, take the amount you are down and divide it by 4 and round up to the nearest dollar. that becomes your dont pass bet. once a point is established, lay max odds.

before you place a bet, if you are up $10 or greater but less than $20 and you proceed to establish a point, dont lay odds.

before you place a bet, if you are up $20 or greater and the last digit of the amount you are up ends in 0, 1, or 2 and proceed to establish a point, dont lay odds.

before you place a bet, if you are up $20 or greater and the last digit of the amount you are up ends in 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, or 9 and you proceed to establish a point, lay $12 odds.

before you place a bet, if you are up $20 or greater and the last digit of the amount you are up ends in a 6 and you proceed to establish a point, if the point is 5,6,8,9 then lay $12 odds. if the point is 4 or 10, lay $14 odds.

Quote: ruascott

To those that have run simulations, is 1M spins enough? I'd think that it would be. However, the challenge calls for 1 billion spins. Is it possible that a system could work over 1M spins, but fail beyond there?

the Wizard's Craps page shows a bell shaped curve of 100 million trials. Without anyone saying so, it has kind of sunk in with me that this is sort of a minimum to be fairly sure there is no bias. These days I do not figure 1 million is enough. Certainly 1 billion is!

To answer your question, 1 million is not quite enough, IMHO, for trials hanging on HE well under 1%, like Craps with Odds bets at 20X for example.

I had to leave for a while so many posts have happened.

I planned on playing with the million spin file as busy work. Regardless of the outcome, which may take me months to do manually, I am going to challenge with what I have. I am also going to challenge him the way he laid it out. He doesn't seem to be too flexible.

My only reason for delaying my challenge until March of 2011 is that right now there's a lawyer in my pocket so deep, I won't be able to afford the $1000 plus the legal fees involved in the challenge until then.

His 10 to 1 odds are only on the money wagered on the challenge. All a challenger has to do is show any profit after the billion spins and he or she wins.

Quote: ruascott

To those that have run simulations, is 1M spins enough? I'd think that it would be. However, the challenge calls for 1 billion spins. Is it possible that a system could work over 1M spins, but fail beyond there?

Almost anything is possible because each spin is independent of the others. All I have to do is win more money on the spins I win than on the times I lose and pass a whole lot of spins in between. If I used the Martingale system (I don't), seven or eight spins could be wasted and then if I won I'd show a profit of one unit. That one unit could win the challenge if it were the billionth spin.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It sounds like you've only tested your system using this one set of random numbers. Granted, a million spins is a lot, but it's still a specific million spins.

I have only tested my system in the casinos with a real wheel and ball. The random number generator is an asset to me if the numbers are close to being truly random. The real wheel is more likely to have strange trends which would hurt a little every now and then.

When I play with the file (million spins) i will be looking at how many times the worst thing that could happen happens within 1 million spins then i can get an idea of how many times it may happen within 1 billion (1 million x 1,000)

Quote: Keyser

You can bet $500 straight up on the number at the Aria,
You can bet $1000 straight up on the number at the MGM on one of the single zero wheels on the floor and in the high limit room.

If you want higher limits, then talk to your host and put up your money in advance at the casino cage.

The following casinos will usually go up to the following if you put up enough money.

Straight up bets:
MGM 1k
Caesars 3k
Mandaly, Mirage, Bellagio, Aria 1k to 2k
Wynn, Encore 2k
Venetian, Pallazo 2k
Hard Rock 1k

Thanks for the info. I'm only requesting that info to satisfy part of the challenge that my strategy can be used in actual play in Vegas. i have no intention of playing with it in the high limit rooms. I am satisfied playing rapid roulette for quarters and i rarely play roulette. The wonderful thing about roulette is that I can watch for hours and never lose a quarter while collecting data. I have the permission of the casino manager at my local casino. They don't bother me much.

i dont think you quite understand how impossible a task this is. you are expected to be down 27,000,000 bets after 1,000,000,000 bets on a singlezero roulette wheel. 52,600,000 bets on a double zero roulette wheel.

Quote: rudeboyoi

i dont think you quite understand how impossible a task this is. you are expected to be down 27,000,000 bets after 1,000,000,000 bets on a singlezero roulette wheel. 52,600,000 bets on a double zero roulette wheel.

I am aware of the house edge and what it means. My strategy allows me to tolerate many spins without winning and unlike Martingale without reaching the table limits or depleting my bankroll. I started playing with the 1 million spin file last night. So far so good.

Just ran across your discussions today while I was searching for different table minimums and maximums in Vegas. I know its been quite a while since you posted this, but are you still working on it? How did your research with the 1 million spins go? I am very interested.

>I planned on playing with the million spin file as busy work. Regardless of the outcome, which may take me months to do manually,

Why in the world would you try and do something a million times manually? A simple software app could be written in short order to test your theory, running all those tests, fully automated, in minutes.

If you system works, let's go make a million dollars. Sounds like you're pretty broke, if you can't afford $1,000 in legal fees. I have plenty of cash, so let's partner up. I'm a software engineer too, so I'll sign an NDA, then work with you to write code to run your simulations. I can also deal with the issue of potential pseudo-randomness in your data-set. If I'm convinced it's a good system, I'll front the money for your legal fees in exchange for a percentage of $30,000 from the challenge.

To be honest I don't think you system has a snowball's chance in hell. The only thing casinos love more than roulette players are roulette players who use a ‘system.’ But why not take this opportunity to get to the bottom of it? We can run millions of simulations as much as you like in order to test you ideas. That's a huge savings in man-hours.

Quote: maxhodges

Why in the world would you try and do something a million times manually?

Max,
Welcome to the forum. You just dredged up and replied to a poster from 2010 who is probably either still manually testing his paper system or is log since gone from this forum.
He never did place the challenge.