Newest urban electric vehicle

Quote: P90

I'm counting on the distances people travel. All even you do on a regular basis is 100 miles both ways, maybe 150.

Lots of times I do 150 in a day. Multiple times a year more than 300.

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And when you do travel more than 300 miles one way - do you always travel alone, leaving your family (if any) at home? The average household has 2 or 3 cars, not 1. Very obviously, for any observable future, at least 1 of them will be a gasoline or diesel car. You take that car for long trips and that's it.

For the times you do travel alone... so you are not on friendly enough terms with your neighbors to lend each other your cars - but are you at least on friendly enough terms with your significant other? If you both want to go somewhere far, you are most likely going together. If only one of you is going, he takes the gas or diesel and the other person takes the electric. I don't see a problem.

Yes, I usually travel alone, sometimes carpool if I am meeting some old college buddies and going in the same direction. Not married, no SO right now, either. Hard to find a woman who does not want kids and honestly happier on my own than in a relationship.

No, not on friendly enough terms to borrow from neighbors and I doubt 1 in 100 people would do that with neighbors. knock knock--"Hey, neighbor, can I put 300 miles on your car this weekend?" *SLAM* As to family, my extended family is always going a bunch of different places same as I am. Car sharing for me, like most people, is not viable.

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I can expect it to drop to about 240 miles in 8 years, yes. Not 210, if it's under 210, they'll have to replace it. So? It's 8 years later - most people have already sold and replaced their car by then.

People replace by year 8? NOPE. Not even close. Average of a car in the USA is almost 50% more than that.

Sorry, but every argument you make on EVs involves giving up utility I alread have with my gasoline powered car. And nothing on the horizon seems to be imoproving on that situation.

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, I usually travel alone, sometimes carpool if I am meeting some old college buddies and going in the same direction. Not married, no SO right now, either. Hard to find a woman who does not want kids and honestly happier on my own than in a relationship.

Well, that also puts you in a minority. Most people have families by 40, and 2-3 cars per family. And these cars are pretty much always shared when needed.

Quote: AZDuffman

No, not on friendly enough terms to borrow from neighbors and I doubt 1 in 100 people would do that with neighbors. knock knock--"Hey, neighbor, can I put 300 miles on your car this weekend?" *SLAM*

Replace "neighbor" with "friend". Though no reason one can't be both.

Yeah, I have to borrow a friend's vehicle or trade cars for a while quite often, never been a problem. Haven't ever been asked how many miles I'm going to do on theirs, or how many I've done.

Quote: AZDuffman

People replace by year 8? NOPE. Not even close. Average of a car in the USA is almost 50% more than that.

Yes... and no. Because it's the average. You see, most of these 10.8 year old cars were bought used. There are 16 million new private vehicles sold in US per year - and 41 million used. That's 3.5 transactions per car. People who have the money to buy new cars don't want to drive one until it falls to pieces.

Quote: P90

Well, that also puts you in a minority. Most people have families by 40, and 2-3 cars per family. And these cars are pretty much always shared when needed.

Per the census about half have families. Still, why would a family pay $10,000 more for a car that does not do what the others can do? Makes no sense.

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Replace "neighbor" with "friend". Though no reason one can't be both.

Uh, OK. "Hey, buddy, mind if I take your car on a short vacation for two days because I bought an EV that won't go 200 miles on a charge?" *SLAM*

Seems like the same results to me.

I can surely say no way I am loaning you my car because you bought some kind of toy that you can't use instead of a real car. I doubt many people will.

Quote: AZDuffman

People replace by year 8? NOPE. Not even close. Average of a car in the USA is almost 50% more than that.

Yes... and no. Because it's the average. You see, most of these 10.8 year old cars were bought used. There are 16 million new private vehicles sold in US per year - and 41 million used. That's 3.5 transactions per car. People who have the money to buy new cars don't want to drive one until it falls to pieces.

Some do, some don't. About half the people I know trade every few years either for business or because they are afraid of owning an "old" car. The other half, myself included, might buy new or used but run them until they are ready for the scrap heap to get maximum utility from them. It doesn't matter, though, because the EV will lose range over time while the gasoline car will not. The EV may very well need an expensive battery halfway thru life (don't expect lifetime warranties forever) which will affect resale value very negatively. So the EV has less chance of a long-term life, increasing its cost even more.

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Replace "neighbor" with "friend". Though no reason one can't be both.

Uh, OK. "Hey, buddy, mind if I take your car on a short vacation for two days because I bought an EV that won't go 200 miles on a charge?" *SLAM*

Seems like the same results to me.

I can surely say no way I am loaning you my car because you bought some kind of toy that you can't use instead of a real car. I doubt many people will.

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People replace by year 8? NOPE. Not even close. Average of a car in the USA is almost 50% more than that.

Yes... and no. Because it's the average. You see, most of these 10.8 year old cars were bought used. There are 16 million new private vehicles sold in US per year - and 41 million used. That's 3.5 transactions per car. People who have the money to buy new cars don't want to drive one until it falls to pieces.

Some do, some don't. About half the people I know trade every few years either for business or because they are afraid of owning an "old" car. The other half, myself included, might buy new or used but run them until they are ready for the scrap heap to get maximum utility from them. It doesn't matter, though, because the EV will lose range over time while the gasoline car will not. The EV may very well need an expensive battery halfway thru life (don't expect lifetime warranties forever) which will affect resale value very negatively. So the EV has less chance of a long-term life, increasing its cost even more.

Quote: Doc

I think a fair portion of the price at the pump is in highway construction/repair taxes, since it is assumed that the vehicles that require the roads and wear them out will be paying for them through fuel purchases.

Then why is home heating oil so expensive?

Quote: pacomartin

Then why is home heating oil so expensive?

Heating oil is similar to diesel and jet fuel. You can't put it into a jet, but you can put jet fuel into a diesel. Heating oil is lower cost and thus proably profit, so a spot shortage in one drives the price of the other higher. Just what I have seen in my experience, anyways.

Quote: P90

No, it's based on their new car, Model S: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features



It's a luxury sedan with pricing starting at about $50,000. In terms of price, size, capabilities, interior, etc., Model S sits right against Mercedes E-class that also starts a bit over 50 grand, though it's positioned closer to sportier models like BMW 5-series and Jaguars. But has two child seats in the back for a total of 7, and an extra trunk in the front, that's some extra practicality.
Still a lot of focus on performance, moderate weight, very low center of gravity, high stiffness chassis, should give Maserati Quattroporte a beating. Hope Top Gear tests it out this season.

They built the roadster first to establish themselves as a luxury brand and work out the kinks on something meant as a second car, always intended to go into saloon, SUV and eventually compact markets later. The car is about to be launched a little later this year

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The model with the 300 mile battery starts at $77,500 and expected to sell for at least $85,000 according to a quick search. Did I miss something? That is quite a bit more than the $50,000 figure stated above. WIKI says the cheapest, bare bones model with the weakest battery pack will start at $57,500.

Quote: AZDuffman

Heating oil is similar to diesel and jet fuel. You can't put it into a jet, but you can put jet fuel into a diesel. Heating oil is lower cost and thus proably profit, so a spot shortage in one drives the price of the other higher. Just what I have seen in my experience, anyways.

But it isn't taxes. Heating oil (HHO) is roughly 4 billion gallons per year, which is insignificant compared to vehicular use. But HHO costs about the same as gasoline. While it has long been significantly cheaper to heat a home with natural gas, not all homes have gas lines. But now with electricity prices coming down, and the price of HHO remaining high, the energy equivalent in electricity is the same price as HHO.

Quote: pacomartin

Then why is home heating oil so expensive?

The cost of heating oil has to pay for the home delivery you don't pick it up at the pump yourself.

Quote: timberjim

The model with the 300 mile battery starts at $77,500 and expected to sell for at least $85,000 according to a quick search. Did I miss something?

There's a $7,500 tax credit with purchase, bringing it down to $69,900. Or $49,900 for the base model.

Quote: AZDuffman

Per the census about half have families. Still, why would a family pay $10,000 more for a car that does not do what the others can do? Makes no sense.

It costs approximately the same. $50k for base Tesla vs $50k for E-350 sedan or $57k for E-350 wagon (closer to Model S in capacity), then $60k for either mid-level Tesla or E-550 sedan, finally $85k for high-performance Tesla versus $89k for E63 AMG or $91k for AMG Wagon. That's neck to neck. Options add to either car, LSD is an option on Mercs and you want it, you also want the transparent roof on Tesla.

Quote: AZDuffman

Uh, OK. "Hey, buddy, mind if I take your car on a short vacation for two days because I bought an EV that won't go 200 miles on a charge?"

Works pretty well when I offer mine, to friends that I know to be interested. Though it isn't electric, just lacks a reasonable trunk.

Quote: AZDuffman

Some do, some don't. About half the people I know trade every few years either for business or because they are afraid of owning an "old" car. The other half, myself included, might buy new or used but run them until they are ready for the scrap heap to get maximum utility from them.

Well, the statistics show that most cars change hands a lot. It's really not rational in my view to run a new car until it dies. If you need new, you'll need new four years from now. If you'll be OK with older in four years, you should be OK with older now.

Quote: AZDuffman

It doesn't matter, though, because the EV will lose range over time while the gasoline car will not.

Of course it will. Engines get less efficient (and less powerful) as they age. To a lesser extent than batteries, but still.

Quote: AZDuffman

The EV may very well need an expensive battery halfway thru life (don't expect lifetime warranties forever) which will affect resale value very negatively.

You wish... try finding a second-hand EV, if it wasn't junk in the first place, for any reasonable price. Know what a used Tesla Roadster costs? $105,000. Things will change as supply increases, but so far, no hope for picking up a second-hand EV for anything reasonable.