Newest urban electric vehicle

Quote: AZDuffman

So if you buy the Hummer for $30K you get to write that off against $30K of income. So if someone was in a 30% tax bracket (for simplicity) they would reduce their tax burden by only $9,000.

Well, the Hummer usually sells for over $53k. Escalade, more. I've read that the average tax reduction is about $17,500 for SUV filed via section 179.

Quote: AZDuffman

By the EV for $30K in the same tax bracket you reduce by $7,500 + $9,000 for a total of $16,500. And yes, I know all of this is over many years and depritiation schedules, but after 5 years that is the net result.

Will it depreciate to zero in 5 years? That doesn't seem to be the case. So AIUI you can only write off some of the price, and that will come year by year, as you know money coming early has more value.
Also, isn't there a limit of approximately the first $15k of vehicle price, depreciation on which can be deducted as business expenses, with the rest considered a luxury for expenses purposes?

Quote: AZDuffman

Hardly projectible saying a microproduction car being sold out means they are "selling on their own." How many units is the Leaf selling vs how many gasoline subcompacts get sold is a more realistic measure. By that measure EVs are not remotely competitive.

I said previously that I would strongly consider Tesla Model S if looking for a quality sedan car (which I actually do have some need for). It's fast, it's reported to have superb handling, and at the same time it's large, well outfitted, comfortable to drive, the console seems to be the best yet, it looks great, the brand is cool, the price is right, backed by a long warranty and low maintenance, it's made on the right side of the pond, it will sell easily because it's a Tesla, what else is there.

Though my location isn't optimal for it, but if I lived in California, where they have charging stations and will have more, yeah, that's most likely the one. Being electric is neither the deal-maker nor a deal-breaker here. It's a great car that among other things scores some points for its powerplant.

But I would definitely not buy a Nissan Leaf. Not for $30k post-credit they are asking for this mutilated Sentra. And not for $16k the Sentra costs. Maybe for $16k minus $7.5k credit... but no, I still don't think I would. Maybe if gas prices went up. The value just isn't there, it's slow, cramped, utilitarian, all plastic inside, bland outside, and just plain bad. Even if I were a treehugger, I'd just ride a bicycle instead. That said, a certain segment will probably still buy them.

Quote: P90

Well, the Hummer usually sells for over $53k. Escalade, more. I've read that the average tax reduction is about $17,500 for SUV filed via section 179.

Will it depreciate to zero in 5 years? That doesn't seem to be the case. So AIUI you can only write off some of the price, and that will come year by year, as you know money coming early has more value.
Also, isn't there a limit of approximately the first $15k of vehicle price, depreciation on which can be deducted as business expenses, with the rest considered a luxury for expenses purposes?

The number I gave is for simplicity and to show that you get a max of 34% or so of the SUV back in tax savings but you get that same amount plus the $7500 *credit* on the EV. No, it will not fall to zero. The IRS does have a depriciation schedule based on estimated lifespans of different items, from computers to cars. I do not remember nor do I care about looking up more detail. Stated simply you depriciate (cost basis) - (residual value) over the number of years of useful life. For the EV you get that PLUS the credit. I never had to deal with a "luxury" limit when I was doing taxes. anything could have changed. Doesn't matter, the extra credit for the EV is my beef.

Quote:

I would definitely not buy a Nissan Leaf. Not for $30k post-credit they are asking for this mutilated Sentra. And not for $16k the Sentra costs. Maybe for $16k minus $7.5k credit... but no, I still don't think I would. Maybe if gas prices went up. The value just isn't there, it's slow, cramped, utilitarian, all plastic inside, bland outside, and just plain bad. Even if I were a treehugger, I'd just ride a bicycle instead. That said, a certain segment will probably still buy them.

A certain segment will buy anything. People bought the Aztek.

The Electric Car will never be a mass market vehicle in it's present form, concludes an analyst.

The analyst I saw was generally upbeat about eventually developing cures for range anxiety, infrastructure for recharging, and patrons adapting to slower speeds. He felt that there was no solution to the high capital investment being asked of customers for batteries which have almost no resale value. Generally, the batteries are at least $10K and usually higher. In contrast, there are no major components of a well maintained gasoline vehicle that depreciate to near zero in five years.

He felt that the only solution was to decouple the price of the battery from that of the car, and to have government support in procuring the battery.

Quote: pacomartin

He felt that the only solution was to decouple the price of the battery from that of the car, and to have government support in procuring the battery.

My, what a suprise!

Lately the Volt has closed their factory while they sell the backlog and Consumer Reports couldn't even get the electric they were testing into the garage. The square peg keeps getting pounded into the round hole.

Quote: AZDuffman

My, what a suprise!
Lately the Volt has closed their factory while they sell the backlog and Consumer Reports couldn't even get the electric they were testing into the garage. The square peg keeps getting pounded into the round hole.

Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at US$31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at US$19,656) ($12K difference) and found that the payback period for the plug-in hybrid is 15 years for gasoline prices at US$3 per gallon, 12 years at US$4 per gallon, and drops to 9 years with gasoline prices at US$5 per gallon. I imagine that even, 9 years is way beyond the life expectancy of the battery.

So, bottom line the consumer must be an idealist.

Quote: pacomartin

Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at US$31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at US$19,656) ($12K difference) and found that the payback period for the plug-in hybrid is 15 years for gasoline prices at US$3 per gallon, 12 years at US$4 per gallon, and drops to 9 years with gasoline prices at US$5 per gallon. I imagine that even, 9 years is way beyond the life expectancy of the battery.

So, bottom line the consumer must be an idealist.

People are math-challenged in the USA.

Yhe sad part is the Volt could make a little sense from an engineering standpoint. Charge a more-efficient electric motor via a liquid-fueled engine by running the engine only at its most efficient levels. The thing is just a miniature diesel-electric locomotive when you get down to it. Yet is still cannot pay for itself.

One thing I saw with it is that the Volt uses the gasoline engine directly, contrary to what GM promised and what seems to be common sense (see above.) I would wonder if it wouldn't be better to have say a small turbine engine charge the battery, or something else more efficient than a piston engine. The value of the piston engine is it gives power NOW while the turbines need to spool up. Not good at the traffic light.

Quote: pacomartin

Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at US$31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at US$19,656) ($12K difference)

The sticker price on a new Cruze is $17,500. My daughter just
bought one.

Quote: EvenBob

The sticker price on a new Cruze is $17,500. My daughter just
bought one.

Great car. I recently drove one as a rental and was shocked at how much it felt like an expensive car. Amazing how far we've come in technology where a $17K car now has pretty much the same features and power as a $40K car twenty years ago.

Chevy makes some great mid sized cars, and you can get
3 or 4 hundred thousand miles out of them if take care of
them. Don't abuse the transmission and change the oil when
you're supposed to.

And don't live north of the Mason-Dixon