Towers of Hanoi and Greece

The Towers of Hanoi is a classic puzzle that is often used to teach you recursive techniques in programming.

But now I read about real life Towers of Hanoi; supertall skyscrapers with 5 star hotels, office space, and luxury condominiums. These were the kind of projects that used to only exist in Hong Kong, Tokyo and Tapei.



What I want to know is how come every city and country in Asia seems to have one of these prestige projects underway? At the same time a country like Greece, which has 9 times the GDP per capita as Vietnam is looking at sovereign default. This Keangnam Hanoi Landmark Tower is taller than any building in the entire European Union including the Shard Tower under construction in London.

I read a story that there was one privately owned airplane in Vietnam, a eight-seat Beechcraft King Air 350 owned by the country's only billionaire.

What is going on? Maybe there is no connection between average wealth and private corporate wealth. Does a country like Greece squander it's money on state run transportation projects and too much government?

Although Greece has never been a hotbed of wealth in Europe, they are an educated, highly developed literate country. Why should simple solvency elude them?

Look up "Hotel of Doom" and North Korea to see how well these projects turn out.

Quote: pacomartin

Does a country like Greece squander it's money on state run transportation projects and too much government? Why should simple solvency elude them?

Its good old socialism run amuk. Vietnam doesn't have a cradle to grave Nanny state to pay for, Greece does. The only way to have a country where everybody has an equal amount of prosperity, is if the prosperity is equivalent to poverty. In every country where where it tries to be equivalent to wealth, it fails. In any country bigger than a postage stamp on the map, anyway. In can succeed is small countries like in Northern Europe, but thats a whole different dynamic.

Quote: EvenBob

In can succeed is small countries like in Northern Europe, but thats a whole different dynamic.

Sweden is about the same size as Greece. I spent some time there where you have cradle to grave programs. The country is beautiful, the people are healthy, and the cities are impressive. But you don't have that in your face kind of luxury like these new buildings in Hanoi. The most impressive buildings are up to 100 years old.



I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you go from a country where people are living on $20 a week, to needing these state of the art 5 star hotels, condominiums, and business centers. I thought this country was communist?

I guess with 90 million people in the country, you have 1% that has all the money and power, and they want everything they have in the finest cities in Europe and Americas.

Quote: EvenBob

Its good old socialism run amuk. Vietnam doesn't have a cradle to grave Nanny state to pay for, Greece does.

That's the Socialist Republic of Vietnam... where socialism ran amok, took over the corrupt Capitalist south in a war and continued on booting out Agarian Marxists in Cambodia as well, and various activities in Laos too. Course, it's no bed of roses in Vietnam either. I have no idea how much cradle-to-grave Nannying goes on in Vietnam either...

EDIT - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist-oriented_market_economy is the system officially in Vietnam, and "Much can be attributed to equitable economic policy that aimed at improving living standards and preventing the rise of inequality; this included egalitarian land distribution ... investing in poor remote areas and the supporting the poor with education and health fees."

So that's what I learnt today, anyways...

Greece's problem (and a lot of the EU's big debts) is the mix of democratic socialism and capitalism / laissez faire economics, coupled with cheap debt and corrupt or incompetent (or both) leadership who couldn't control spending, and would in some cases actively lie about that spending to stay in the Eurozone. Nothing wrong running something for the profit motive, and nothing wrong with the state providing a basic (but relatively high) level of care.

I'm not convinced a government can bow to both masters.

As a follow-up, my other favourite podcast "From our own correspondent" (BBC radio 4 and the World Service) did a short report on Greece... seems the civil service has been HUGELY inflated and over paid for years since 1980. The report starts with an item about someone getting hired by the Ministry of Finance... but they couldn't tell the employee what job he'd end up doing.

Quote: s2dbaker

Look up "Hotel of Doom" and North Korea to see how well these projects turn out.

The 3700 room, 1000' tall "Hotel of Doom" that they began in North Korea 25 years ago is almost completed. It was probably designed shortly after the Star Wars movies were finishing.


South Korea is opening their own tower this year in Incheon


Busan (formerly Pusan) , city of over 3 million people on the southern coast of South Korea, is building no less than ten buildings from 674' to 1674'. They currently do not have a building over 700'. Every city in Asia wants a skyline.

Quote: pacomartin

The 3700 room, 1000' tall "Hotel of Doom" that they began in North Korea 25 years ago is almost completed. It was probably designed shortly after the Star Wars movies were finishing.

A 3700 room hotel for a country of 3 million people that not even the Chinese want to visit. Well planned, dear leader, well planned!

Quote: s2dbaker

A 3700 room hotel for a country of 3 million people that not even the Chinese want to visit. Well planned, dear leader, well planned!

Back in 1979 South Korea began building a 60 story building in Seoul called KLI 63 building, that would top out at 249 meters (817') when completed in 1985.

The building was a symbol of the new economy of East Asia, and remained the tallest building their for 8 years until the Japanese built the Landmark Tower in Yokohama and Union Bank Centre was built in Singapore.

North Korea was just trying to show they could do the same thing as South Korea.

By the way they have 24m people in N Korea. I also doubt that there will be 3700 rooms in the remodel. They were probably pretty small in the design.

Back to the original topic of this thread: they are building some landmarks all though every city in Asia, including some fairly poor places. Japan is largely sitting out of this competition. They don't even have a single 1000' building in proposal stage.

I wouldn't go into most of these buildings, knowing how lax building codes are in many countries. Lets see how many of them are falling apart in 25 years.

In addition to skyscrapers, some individual homes in otherwise poor cities in Asia, are outdoing anything in North America.

That is one damn nice duplex.