Minimum age to gamble

I think you are looking at this out of self interest as opposed to being objective. I play in an 18+ casino and I've had more of a pleasure playing with friendly college kids than the MANY grumpy old men who frequent the place, bitching about every hand they lose. To be honest I'd say the younger guys tend to play closer to BS as well. Obviously I'm generalizing, but in all of my play I have never had an issue playing with a young guy, but many times I have switched tables because of some older gentleman on third base who just won't quit his moaning.

Arg, now I have to defend my admittedly radical position! Ok, Why is it my decision when some one else' kid is allowed to gamble? If the Wizard, for example, had a 14 year old child who could help him scout lines on Super Bowl prop bets or even run in real quick and place a quick bet for Dad at the sportsbook, why in the world should this be criminal behavior? WHERE IS THE VICTIM? This is not an appropriate area for legislation, it should be regulated by community standards outside of government. Honestly though, even if there was no gambling age, how many 14 year olds have any cash? How could you profitably spread a BJ game that would appeal to someone whose weekly budget is maybe $20, most of which is being saved up to buy a bag of weed anyway?

Quote: bigfoot66

Why is it my decision when some one else' kid is allowed to gamble? This is not an appropriate area for legislation, it should be regulated by community standards outside of government. Honestly though, even if there was no gambling age, how many 14 year olds have any cash? How could you profitably spread a BJ game that would appeal to someone whose weekly budget is maybe $20?

How is it not an appropriate area for legislation? Are you suggesting that good gambling policy is not a public good?

Also, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "community standards outside of government", but I've never known of any extra-governmental regulation to be attempted, let alone effective, in properly regulating gambling activities. I am acutely aware of the pitfalls of improper, lax, or absent gambling regulation -- I've seen it first-hand in both land-based and online jurisdictions. Wherever this occurs, the community suffers far more than it does in a gaming environment clearly circumscribed by statute or regulation. Look to Alabama and its bingo machines for an example.

Quote: bigfoot66

Arg, now I have to defend my admittedly radical position! Ok, Why is it my decision when some one else' kid is allowed to gamble? If the Wizard, for example, had a 14 year old child who could help him scout lines on Super Bowl prop bets or even run in real quick and place a quick bet for Dad at the sportsbook, why in the world should this be criminal behavior? WHERE IS THE VICTIM? This is not an appropriate area for legislation, it should be regulated by community standards outside of government. Honestly though, even if there was no gambling age, how many 14 year olds have any cash? How could you profitably spread a BJ game that would appeal to someone whose weekly budget is maybe $20, most of which is being saved up to buy a bag of weed anyway?

I think, this discussion is similar to the question of statutory rape. Should adults be punished for having a consensual sexual relationship with a 14 year old?

Quote: MathExtremist

How is it not an appropriate area for legislation? Are you suggesting that good gambling policy is not a public good?

Also, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "community standards outside of government", but I've never known of any extra-governmental regulation to be attempted, let alone effective, in properly regulating gambling activities. I am acutely aware of the pitfalls of improper, lax, or absent gambling regulation -- I've seen it first-hand in both land-based and online jurisdictions. Wherever this occurs, the community suffers far more than it does in a gaming environment clearly circumscribed by statute or regulation. Look to Alabama and its bingo machines for an example.

Community standards outside of government are all around us. Take burping at the dinner table. We do not do this, but I have heard that it is rude not to in some cultures (did not double check to see if this is actually acurate but the fact that we can imagine such a culture is all I need to prove my point). How about men cheating on their wives? Surely this is detestable behavior, but most people agree it should not be criminal (or maybe its not criminal because lawmakers themselves are the most likely to cheat on their wives!). I am suggesting the same thing here. I can't imagine a casino that took an 8 year olds lunch money would be in business very long, would anyone here patronize such an institution?

The government is based on force. Do what we say or our armed goons will come arrest and cage you. Want to resist? We have no problem killing you and your dog.

I mostly agree with your other point about being "acutely aware of the pitfalls of improper, lax, or absent gambling regulation -- I've seen it first-hand in both land-based and online jurisdictions. Wherever this occurs, the community suffers far more than it does in a gaming environment clearly circumscribed by statute or regulation". If the market is expecting the government to regulate and it fails that is the worste possible outcome. However if the market is not expecting the government to regulate, then other regulatory institutions will arise--and do a much better job.

I don't have kids, will never have any and I'm over 35. I say let them all drink and gamble at any age and then let Zeus sort it out.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The reason it's 21 is because they serve alcohol without checking ID. Personally, I think it shouldn't be any higher than 18, regardless of the drinking age, even in a casino that serves alcohol. Sure it would be a logistics PITA for the casino to make it 18, but they've had other logistics nightmares to deal with and they generally figure it out.

Also, if they feel the need to check ID to see if you are old enough to drink, why don't they feel the same need to check ID to see if you are old enough to gamble?

(And if they don't check ID but just assume that if you are in a gambling area, you are at least 21, doesn't that open the door up to some major lawsuits? I don't see "Well, he was in a gambling area, so we just assumed he was 21," as a particularly successful defense if some 20-year-old drinks a little too much and then runs his car into a mass of people trying to cross East Harmon.)

Race tracks in California serve beer and allow 18-year-olds to bet; why not casinos?

Quote: bigfoot66

Community standards outside of government are all around us. Take burping at the dinner table. We do not do this, but I have heard that it is rude not to in some cultures (did not double check to see if this is actually acurate but the fact that we can imagine such a culture is all I need to prove my point). How about men cheating on their wives? Surely this is detestable behavior, but most people agree it should not be criminal (or maybe its not criminal because lawmakers themselves are the most likely to cheat on their wives!). I am suggesting the same thing here. I can't imagine a casino that took an 8 year olds lunch money would be in business very long, would anyone here patronize such an institution?.

It's a bit specious, don't you think, to compare belching at dinner to a casino accepting wagers from an 8-year-old? First, while belching may or may not be polite, it is inarguably not dangerous to those around. But we do have laws against smoking at the dinner table (in a restaurant). Your signature implies you're a libertarian -- do you believe that laws against smoking in public eateries should be repealed and we should let the free market sort out who patronizes which restaurants, and who works there?

And as detestable as adultery may be (or may not be to some), it is nevertheless a relationship between roughly equal powers. The relationship between a casino and its patron is not; neither is the relationship between an employer and an employee, nor a landlord and a renter. Laws exist in all those scenarios to mitigate the imbalance of power and to protect the rights of the weaker party from being trampled upon. I am not suggesting that these laws get it right all the time, but I *am* suggesting that a political philosophy that argues no such laws should ever exist is flawed. Government coercion via threat of force (e.g. laws, statutes, and regulations) is an entirely appropriate tool for that job. That's why laws against smoking in public places exist, that's why restrictions on landlords exist, and that's why gambling regulation exists.

There are 18 year old casinos in CA that serve beer as well. I don't like pplaying with the 18-20 year old crowd personally.

Quote: bigfoot66

If the Wizard, for example, had a 14 year old child who could help him scout lines on Super Bowl prop bets or even run in real quick and place a quick bet for Dad at the sportsbook, why in the world should this be criminal behavior? WHERE IS THE VICTIM? This is not an appropriate area for legislation, it should be regulated by community standards outside of government.

You're on to something, but you're missing the point. True, there is no crime and no victim. But that's not the rationale for restricting minors from gaming. Rather think about what rights children and minors have and should have. One area that's very constant is contract law. A minor may not enter into a contract without parental consent. A bet is, in essence, a contract between the player and the casino. Money changes hands in response to outcomes.

As contracts go, it is one of the worst forms, as not all the rules and clauses, or even definitions, are written down. And not only is much of it unwritten, a lot of it is even unspoken (you can play almost any game at any casino without uttering a single word). nevertheless it si a contract and both sides often do abide by the rather nebulous terms.

Now, any minor can enter into a contract with parental consent. In fact most minors do just that. How amny apretns cover their children in their insuarance, or take out abnk aboutns for them, etc? It's a common state of affairs. But contracts such as gaming are too diffuse to simply, say, allow a 14 year-old to carry a permission slip from his mother letting her gamble. Besides, in most contracts involving minors, the aprents are guardians of any moneys, even that earmarked for the child in, say, a trust fund. In gambling that wouldn't work.