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Question for AP's and Casino Personnel
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| March 6th, 2011 at 9:13:02 PM permalink | |
| dudestupid Member since: Sep 11, 2010 Threads: 20 Posts: 145 |
At an Indian Casino here in Oregon, they switched from the machines to hand-shuffling. I asked the dealer about it, and he said it was because the found it was easier to track the shuffle on the machines. It didn't make any sense to me either. |
| March 7th, 2011 at 4:17:29 AM permalink | |
| DJTeddyBear Member since: Nov 2, 2009 Threads: 105 Posts: 5714 | That IS a lame answer. The real answer probably is cost. Those shuffling machines are rented, not purchased. So if they do have them at that casino, I'd bet they'll ony have them on tables that are open 24/7. Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood? |
| March 7th, 2011 at 4:50:02 AM permalink | |
| marksolberg Member since: Nov 14, 2009 Threads: 24 Posts: 197 | You would be surprised how many dealers, pitbosses and casino managers have no idea of the fundamentals of what makes the game profitable. "Put Jerry rotating Sue, Phil and Sharon, they mix well together". "Add another strip to the shuffle". "Do a really tight shuffle". "Don't put Bill on the high limit game, he can never win". The best shuffle is the quickest one you can do that is sufficiently random to deter counting or tracking. If I could do a quick wash as a shuffle I would. There seems to be this overwhelming fear by some casino managers and regulators that counting or tracking is a license to print money. We recognize counters in our place every once in a while. We don't immediately back them off, we watch them. We'll let them know we are watching them by doing things that make it harder to count like cutting off more of the shoe. Sometimes they stay and play, sometimes they don't. Mark |
| March 7th, 2011 at 5:38:34 AM permalink | |
| FleaStiff Member since: Oct 19, 2009 Threads: 75 Posts: 4820 | Its sort of similar to a cashier checking for counterfeit bills... it takes time and you probably don't really have many people passing counterfeit bills in the place anyway. Yet some checking does make sense. Shuffling... IF the house edge applied during shuffling, fine. It doesn't. It only applies to the bets actually made per hour not to the bets that would have been made while the dealer was shuffling the cards. Casinos that imagine they will hit for a million dollars by a counter at their five dollar blackjack table are foolish. Some guys show up who are card-counting friends? Let them play for a while and watch them. Are they really doing that much better when they crank up their bets? Are they still losing from time to time? Some low limit card counters spend more on meals and drinks at the bar than they could be making at the tables. Its a game to them. See if they get too greedy or are just having some fun. I'd love to see a dealer on the morning shift with three card counters at his table. Just have him start announcing what the count is from time to time.. he will suddenly have a FULL table. Which situation do you think will bring in more money for the casino? Small time card counters don't cost the casino. An empty table costs the casino. A slow deal costs the casino. An inordinately lengthy shuffle costs the casino. Ban would-be card counters? Next think the casino will want to ban is beautiful women in low cut gowns. |
| March 7th, 2011 at 3:24:26 PM permalink | |
| Face Member since: Dec 27, 2010 Threads: 37 Posts: 941 |
Bwahaha! You could catch up on your crossword puzzles =)
Indeed they are. In addition to the cost of rental, there's the cost of maintenance and repair which is handled by our Slot Tech's. If every table had them, there might even be a need for additional personnel to cover the added workload, which is another salary + benefits. I'm sure they don't want to add tens of thousands of dollars to the payroll. (They'd much rather cut hundreds of thousands from the intake =P)
Aye, we also employ these tactics at times and to me, I think it should be one of our primary recourses. I just get frustrated because Table Games is so damn skittish. Anytime anyone's suspected of anything, there's a request to rundown hours of their gameplay. I myself have done this a number of times and one patron usually results in nearly an entire shift of b.s., then it's sent out for computer analysis, etc and so on. The whole process takes about three days, and when all is said and done, the most common and severe result is just that, cutting more off the shoe. It seems like streamlining is in order. A simple evaluation which I could do in 1 or 2 hours (with and 11-1 record of coming to the same conclusion as computer) should be sufficient, and TG can make adjustments from there. If I'm wrong, hell, the average gambler isn't going to notice the difference of a shorter shoe. (Well, they wouldn't with a NORMAL shuffle =P) Between the knee-jerk rundowns, and now this shuffle issue, I'm going a little crazy. But as for the shuffle, the Director just informed me it made it's way to the highest level of our hierarchy and is being examined. I have a little more work to do to give them real, actual numbers and hopefully this will be changed. And I'll have yet another instance of making someone tons of money, yet can barely afford to pay my property taxes myself lol. Gotta love it. Thank you all for your input. " 'Luck' is probabilty taken personally" - Penn Gilette |
| January 22nd, 2012 at 3:10:18 PM permalink | |
| EvenBob Member since: Jul 18, 2010 Threads: 231 Posts: 6398 |
So Face, its been almost a year, have things improved, or are they still seeing the devil behind every tree. One casino owner to another: "It would be so much easier if we could just hit them over the head, steal their money, and throw their bodies in the creek." Al Swearengen, Deadwood |
| January 22nd, 2012 at 3:26:40 PM permalink | |
| Face Member since: Dec 27, 2010 Threads: 37 Posts: 941 | I could rename this thread Unintended Consequences II. After 8 or 9 months, it gained enough momentum reach all those involved and get tabled. We now have CSM's >< " 'Luck' is probabilty taken personally" - Penn Gilette |
| January 22nd, 2012 at 3:29:15 PM permalink | |
| EvenBob Member since: Jul 18, 2010 Threads: 231 Posts: 6398 |
ICK! Has this cost you business? CSM's are worthless from a players POV. One casino owner to another: "It would be so much easier if we could just hit them over the head, steal their money, and throw their bodies in the creek." Al Swearengen, Deadwood |
| January 22nd, 2012 at 3:36:53 PM permalink | |
| Face Member since: Dec 27, 2010 Threads: 37 Posts: 941 |
Too early to tell, but just by looking I'd say it's business as usual. It sure has sped things up, so I don't feel like a total failure lol. And it's still 6 deck shoes in high limit, so there's that. " 'Luck' is probabilty taken personally" - Penn Gilette |
| January 22nd, 2012 at 3:40:35 PM permalink | |
| EvenBob Member since: Jul 18, 2010 Threads: 231 Posts: 6398 |
I would think most counters know you watch high limit play like a hawk, so they would avoid it. One casino owner to another: "It would be so much easier if we could just hit them over the head, steal their money, and throw their bodies in the creek." Al Swearengen, Deadwood |
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