Harrah’s Entertainment Goes Public With IPO

Quote: SOOPOO

By definition, you do NOT want AP players in your casino.

No, you do not. But at the same time, the number of AP players out there is so small relative to total players that little time should be wasted on keeping them out. In fact, having a reputation of letting AP players havde a fair shot could well bring in more people who think they can beat the house since so few really can.

Quote: SOOPOO

By definition, you do NOT want AP players in your casino. But JL has a good question... Why would a casino allow a VP pay table to exceed 100%? I trust the Wiz and others here that they exist, but if I was the casino exec I would not have them in my casino....

Real simple--those machines are still profitable. To exceed 100% return, you generally have to know the optimum strategy perfectly, and implement it flawlessly. Those are two hurdles that the vast majority of players don't manage to clear, so they play at a disadvantage. This is true for a large number of players who do try to memorize and implement the strategies--it's far from easy. And of course, one of the Clueless Corps could sit down at that fullpay machine, and get butchered by it.

Fullpay VP isn't fullpay unless you play it correctly, and many of the plays are counterintuitive. For example, at 10/7 Double Bonus, given the hand of Ah, 5h, 6h, 9c, 2s, you hold the three-flush, not just the Ace. I've watched players over the years, and I'd say that maybe one in twenty makes the right play in this situation--which comes up a lot. And these were Vegas locals who presumably would be more skilled than the average Joe.

The Fiesta in North Vegas, before it got eaten by Stations, had pretty much nothing BUT fullpay video poker for the first five years of its existence. It made money hand over fist, and bankrolled Maloof's acquisition of the Palms.

Just an update: It looks like shares of Harrah's (trading under Caesar's Entertainment Corporation, CZR) will be available for trading as soon as tomorrow.

The article I linked advises against investing at CZR, and it makes some good points, some of which we've already discussed in this thread.

This Barron's author reccomends against it as well, and I've read at least one blog advising shorting the stock, too. Of course, literally anyone can write a blog, so I'd take that last advice with a grain of salt.

I doubt, at the very least, it will have as strong an opening as GM has experienced so far.

Just an update: Harrah's IPO has been canceled, claiming "unfavorable market conditions".

Oh well. We'll just have to wait until investors opinion of Harrah's improves enough that they could actually sell the stock. Until next time!

Quote: AZDuffman

No, you do not. But at the same time, the number of AP players out there is so small relative to total players that little time should be wasted on keeping them out. In fact, having a reputation of letting AP players havde a fair shot could well bring in more people who think they can beat the house since so few really can.

Singer states that "AP" is just a state of mind and I agree with him. When you consider the reason for all those promotions for slot players are there just to get as many of them in as possible, it can't be anything else BUT a state of mind to feel good about oneself. Everyone I run into in LV says they're an AP. They think that impresses a vp junkie such as myself.

Quote: MathExtremist

For the record, both Rio and Paris were built by others (Marnell and Bally/Park Place, respectively) and then acquired by Harrah's after the fact. So was Caesars, for that matter. In fact, I don't believe Harrah's has built *any* of the properties they own in Las Vegas -- even the Harrah's Las Vegas was an acquisition.

Yes indeed, all of Harrah's properties in Las Vegas were acquired, and none were built. The suspended hotel tower in Ceasars is the first building in the city built from scratch.

I believe that of the 53 casino properties they own, only a few were built from scratch. And that was entirely pre-Gary Loveman.

That is one reason why I was not surprised with the idea of them building a casino from the ground up in Philadelphia (and Ohio). I think that investors were also not impressed as Harrah's has cancelled it's IPO because they feel that no one will buy the stock for enough money.