Poll

12 votes (50%)
3 votes (12.5%)
No votes (0%)
5 votes (20.83%)
4 votes (16.66%)

24 members have voted

ams288
ams288
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April 27th, 2015 at 5:51:10 AM permalink
Interesting. I stayed at NYNY end of March and the table was always empty, the rack was always completely full of chips, and the dealers always looked miserable. I thought it looked like a failure. Never even saw them raise the table above a $5 minimum, even on weekend nights.
The geniuses who thought HRC was running a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza shop just can't connect the dots on all this trump-Russia stuff....
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 27th, 2015 at 5:54:58 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

The frequency of getting paid on the Blind bet seems to be about 1 in 17 hands. Wiz, did you figure out what the RTP on the Blind bet only? Wonder how it compares to the Blind RTP in UTH?



The Blind wins with probability 5.98%, or 1 in 16.7 hands. The expected LOSS on the Blind is 38.2%.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Sigsev
Sigsev
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April 27th, 2015 at 6:24:59 AM permalink
I noticed it at Horseshoe Cleveland when I was passing through a couple of months ago. They had two tables and both were jammed with people waiting for seats. I'd try it, since strategy seems simple enough. I'd be curious as to how much the pit worries about collusion in this game.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 27th, 2015 at 3:38:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The Blind wins with probability 5.98%, or 1 in 16.7 hands. The expected LOSS on the Blind is 38.2%.


Yeah, that seems a bit steep to me and will impact the feel of the game to the player, IMHO. I believe the Super Bonus in Crazy Four with its -0.34 RTP gets paid about twice as often.

I don't know what the limitations are on using a mandatory highly negative compensating bet as the mechanism to claw back HE, but DJ Wild has to be getting close with its Blind set up. That being said, the only opinion that matters is the players voting with their $$$ and that seems to be working so far.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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April 27th, 2015 at 4:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Yeah, that seems a bit steep to me and will impact the feel of the game to the player, IMHO. I believe the Super Bonus in Crazy Four with its -0.34 RTP gets paid about twice as often.



I'm hoping to play at the NYNY this evening to get a better feeling for the "fun factor." Anybody want to join me?

I must admit that before I heard of Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em I would have been skeptical of this idea of mandating a very negative side bet. I considered such an idea for my own Ties Win Blackjack, but only briefly, as I didn't want to complicate the game and I thought forcing a side bet would seem like a jip.

However, I would have been proven wrong. UTHE is a big success. Players don't seem to view the Blind as a mandated side bet but as a natural part of the game. Multiple times I've heard players debate about how the casino gets its edge in the game. I've tried to explain that it comes from the Blind bet, which rarely wins, but of course other players look at me like I'm just another clown who doesn't know what he's talking about.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 27th, 2015 at 4:25:25 PM permalink
Wish I could join you.....I think the fact that this Blind bet rarely gets paid (the 1 in 17 hands frequency) is going to highlight the bad bet component of this game's blind. Wiz, I didn't see on UTH and it is quite a task to add up that results pay table (unlike the Crazy Four Blind pay table results), how frequently does the UTH Blind get paid? I know the expectation is like -0.31, but if it got paid like one in 7-8 hands, that would be disguised to the player.
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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April 27th, 2015 at 4:39:50 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Wish I could join you.....I think the fact that this Blind bet rarely gets paid (the 1 in 17 hands frequency) is going to highlight the bad bet component of this game's blind. Wiz, I didn't see on UTH and it is quite a task to add up that results pay table (unlike the Crazy Four Blind pay table results), how frequently does the UTH Blind get paid? I know the expectation is like -0.31, but if it got paid like one in 7-8 hands, that would be disguised to the player.


In UTH, the blind hits 8.74% of the time, or once in 11 hands or so, so that during a typical session, you are subliminally aware enough "that it pays," that it feels like a positive bet to make.

It's when the negative prop bet hit frequency exceeds this 1 in 11-or-so hands by too much that we become aware that "it ain't really paying." But the blind bet allows the Raise feature, which is what we really notice - getting paid on the raises, but the blind bet must not be essentially dead all the time, or else its disguise wears off and it becomes noticed that it is functioning as a heavy vig or commission for that raise feature.

I don't know if it is too rare on DJ Wild, time and patronage will tell.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 27th, 2015 at 4:43:12 PM permalink
I think the mindset of the player is how much did he win/loss in total. He doesn't care which bet it came from or why. I bet if an errant dealer didn't mandate the players make the blind bet in UTHE, most players will would.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 27th, 2015 at 9:00:26 PM permalink
I tend to agree with the 1 in 11 threshold......sort of like a side bet, anything less than that starts to feel like a sucking sound on your bankroll. With UTH you also get that 4X raise (HUH gives you the 3X raise). DJ Wild is a 2X raise and a less frequent pay on the Blind..... but as PGD says, it will come down to patronage!
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Wizard
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Wizard
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April 27th, 2015 at 10:17:59 PM permalink
I played for about an hour this evening. The table was running cold so the excitement level was subdued. One thing that struck me was the pace of the game was very slow. Normally casinos put their worst dealers on field trial games, which may partially explain it. One thing that could speed up the game is if the player folds then he automatically loses his Trips bet. It wasted a lot of time to check the hands of players who folded for a win on the Trips. If a player had a paying trips hand, then he probably isn't going to fold to begin with.

Nevertheless, the table had a couple die hard players who I think had been playing it a long time. Another player looked like a boxer who was there for the big fight. He just sat there and played -- very badly -- raising on garbage.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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