djatc
djatc 
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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February 7th, 2017 at 6:52:23 PM permalink
Quote: Mooseton

I once walked in on my brother doing some sort of double up game in one of the final fantasys.
Bet max to double up, Winner! Save.
Bet max to double up, Loser, power off, power on & try again.



It's called save scumming. I would do the same if the game allowed it lol
They asked me how well I understood theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. They said welcome aboard.
reno
reno
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
onenickelmiracle
February 8th, 2017 at 7:39:27 PM permalink
I think the most fascinating statistic in the article is that the Russians' goal was to hit the slot machine spin button exactly 0.25 seconds after the smartphone vibrated. The timing wasn't always perfect, but it worked often enough to produce a profit. Unbelievable.
Keyser
Keyser
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
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February 8th, 2017 at 9:27:31 PM permalink
If the Russians had been winning without the use of any kind of electronic device, then would they still have been charged with a crime?
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 9th, 2017 at 6:51:57 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

If the Russians had been winning without the use of any kind of electronic device, then would they still have been charged with a crime?

Debatable... because gaming could say they were "altering the odds of chance" and thus "altering the outcome of the game" if they 'knew' when to hit the button for a winning spin.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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February 9th, 2017 at 7:16:16 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

If the Russians had been winning without the use of any kind of electronic device, then would they still have been charged with a crime?



I don't think they could be held criminally liable, but just like in the Ivey case the casino could still sue to get their money back.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 9th, 2017 at 7:41:59 AM permalink
Without use of a phone i dont see how they could even be sued. The video would show someone pausing to push the button and ge could say he was superstitious or thinking about his bills and whether he should continue playing or even hesitating to continue because he couldnt believe his luck would keep going

However if a search of his house found a slot machine with its software hacked i imagine they might try to press some form of illegal hacking of proprietary software charges
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 9th, 2017 at 7:54:35 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Without use of a phone i dont see how they could even be sued. The video would show someone pausing to push the button and ge could say he was superstitious or thinking about his bills and whether he should continue playing or even hesitating to continue because he couldnt believe his luck would keep going

However if a search of his house found a slot machine with its software hacked i imagine they might try to press some form of illegal hacking of proprietary software charges

That's the trick... The house would have to prove they "knew" when to push the button which would show outside knowledge not accessible to everyone and thus be changing the elements of chance. Like DRich said, they might not be able to be criminally punished, but they certainly could be sued for the money back (re:See Phil Ivey case).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 9th, 2017 at 8:32:34 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

That's the trick... The house would have to prove they "knew" when to push the button which would show outside knowledge not accessible to everyone and thus be changing the elements of chance. Like DRich said, they might not be able to be criminally punished, but they certainly could be sued for the money back (re:See Phil Ivey case).



Im familiar with the phil ivey case. There are significant differences assuming no electronic device was used

I.e. what did they do different from other players. They pushed buttons in a funny timing.

Hmm that doesnt rise to convincing a dealer to flip cards so they can read the back of edges. That is a demonstrable effort to affect odds. Simply pushing a slot button periodically wouldnt rise to that level.

What if a patron discovered it by accident without hacking another model. "Your honor every time i counted to 48 in my head i seemed to win so i kept pushing the button after 48. It wss in my head so probably wasnt perfect time but hey i kept winning so why stop"
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 9th, 2017 at 8:37:07 AM permalink
It should be pointef out the phil ivey decision was that he changed the odds by essentially MARKING them through the use of rotating the cards to disti guish which cardd benefited him

So i dont see how this russian case if done without an electronic device simply using his own mind to keep count could be compared
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 9th, 2017 at 9:53:35 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

It should be pointef out the phil ivey decision was that he changed the odds by essentially MARKING them through the use of rotating the cards to disti guish which cardd benefited him

So i dont see how this russian case if done without an electronic device simply using his own mind to keep count could be compared

The underlying complaint was that they altered the element or chance. If someone hit the button at 48 seconds and 'always' won, then this would be a machine malfunction like any other. Sure, the player can sit and play all day, but the casino certainly could refuse to pay based on machine malfunction.

An example of this is also the double up trick. It was just some guys hitting some buttons, but they figured out if they hit them in a certain sequence at a certain time that it changed the outcome. This is the same thing. The guy is hitting a button at a certain time and it changes the outcome.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.

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