Progressive jackpots

But what are we discussing ..... All progressives become positive at some point... Am I missing something here? Or are we just discussing at what point it's positive ,isn't this just the same discussion as a must hit except with less info, I don't think obj are linked to each other at most places -

A new Article closely related to this topic:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/general-guide-to-progressives/

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Parx casino had a bunch of them one was in the 3k-3500 range can't remember the exact amount

I was looking at your comment from March, and wondering if it is possible the ones you saw at Parx were for more than 1-cent. I personally have only seen them at 1-cent, starting at $900 for major and $10 for minor. Is it possible those were 2-cent machines?

It's possible, haven't been back there since

Quote: bobbartop

I was particularly interested in what OneNickel had to say above, but that post is from 2013. Things he said made a lot of sense and he spoke from some experience. The casino I frequent has about 20 machines and I have been going there a few years but I have only started paying close attention to this game in the last six months or so. They seem to hit frequently enough, like I said, mostly under $1100, so going along with what OneNickel said, I assume they are on a "loose" setting. But I am just guessing, and frankly, as far as I know it could be possible that Aristocrat only makes them with one setting. It's possible.

Anyway, I thought the meters were generous, 1% on both major and minor, and I can count on one hand the times I've seen one go over $1500, and remember once one going to $2100. I wish I had some inside scoop on these and know for sure whether $1500 is positive EV. I know you can get "stuck" pretty quickly on them and would like to test them without getting my proverbial brains blown out.

-BB

I've had the cards an unknown number of times at all bet levels, estimated over 500+, I seriously doubt it is possible. My sister has had the cards probably under 50 times and has hit two majors, coincidentally on the same machine. I do assume the minor is worthy. Majors go weeks with man after man pounding out max bets along the way. I can only see it if a casino has an aggressive free play award where you'll get your money back after a failed attempt.

Quote: AxelWolf

Oops I was writing my previous response got distracted then fell asleep I woke up finished it and sent it before I read this.

I'm not sure if $1500 is a good number

I can tell you this I have seen them at $2400 however someone was playing it an when I returned it had been hit.
I have seen many various numbers over $1500. the seed them at 900 IIRC?

The question is what happens if you start $1400 if even a small percentage goes to $2500? $2400 $2300 $2200 and so on how much will you lose on the runners?

I think its worthwhile investigating. Perhaps you can go every day write down and keep track using the meter move to find out when they have hit and get an average (Unfortunately you wont know if they hit more than once before you have returned) That would take a while and wouldn't be perfect but it might help get a better Idea of the average random jackpot.

A machine went to $2800 before popping recently. People even said they they thought it was broken. A few thought they had it picking perfectly with regards to the kangaroos, but after picking all cards, the obj man wasn't there.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I've had the cards an unknown number of times at all bet levels, estimated over 500+, I seriously doubt it is possible. My sister has had the cards probably under 50 times and has hit two majors, coincidentally on the same machine. I do assume the minor is worthy. Majors go weeks with man after man pounding out max bets along the way. I can only see it if a casino has an aggressive free play award where you'll get your money back after a failed attempt.

Thank you for your reply. You should know that searching and finding your comments from 2013 is what led me to this forum. The only significant conclusion I have made is to play when the Minor is quite large. It does happen. But I'm sure I'm still in negative EV territory. It's a fun game, somewhat addicting, but I am not addicted to losing.

Thanks for your help.

-BB

Quote: onenickelmiracle

A machine went to $2800 before popping recently. People even said they they thought it was broken. A few thought they had it picking perfectly with regards to the kangaroos, but after picking all cards, the obj man wasn't there.

This post by One Nickel is what prompted me to join this forum back in early 2016.

I was searching for info on this slot game and came across One Nickel's comments and thought they were enlightening. Since then, the little bit that I have played these I have taken One Nickel's advice and played max coin. It's not something I do all the time, I still play a lot of video poker, of course.

I just wanted to throw a few images here, mainly for One Nickel if he's interested. Tonight I took a photo of all cards but one being exposed and I was still in contention. There were four OBJ, three Sharks, two Crocs, and two Roos. In other words, if the last card is an OBJ, I win major. If it is a Shark, I win minor. If it's a Croc, I get $5. The only reason I took this photo was because of the situation. I finally clicked the remaining card and it was the fourth Shark.

Now I'm looking back in my computer files because I know this has come up before, several months ago. In fact, it came up twice before. Same scenario. I can tell you, both times it was the fourth Shark. I know it's a small sample size. Still, I wanted to share it with One Nickel.

Quote: AxelWolf

In the original post I think you were more on the right track. I'm sure there is a number on the progressives that makes this game +EV at some point.

IMO this game is a Mystery Bonus Progressive. It's no different than a must hit other than you don't know the range. I bet there's a hidden range. If there's a hidden range and that range is not high enough there's a chance this game may never turn positive(but I think that's unlikely).

You need to figure out how often on average the random bonus comes up and then how often it awards the progressives during the bonus. You also need to know the hold for each location.

I'm just wondering. What if, on each and every Card Feature Round, there are actually Two Roos, Two OBJ, Four Sharks, and Four Crocs? Then it wouldn't need to be a mystery progressive, and there would be a lot of leeway in how you could come about hitting it. It might seem once completing the round that it had been impossible to hit it going in, but that could be confused by how the Roos were picked. Certainly, if your first two picks are Roos, you're screwed. I am also wondering, if you get to the situation that I showed a couple days ago whether the last card MUST be a Shark.

Quote: bobbartop

I'm just wondering. What if, on each and every Card Feature Round, there are actually Two Roos, Two OBJ, Four Sharks, and Four Crocs? Then it wouldn't need to be a mystery progressive, and there would be a lot of leeway in how you could come about hitting it. It might seem once completing the round that it had been impossible to hit it going in, but that could be confused by how the Roos were picked. Certainly, if your first two picks are Roos, you're screwed. I am also wondering, if you get to the situation that I showed a couple days ago whether the last card MUST be a Shark.

Sorry to answer a question with a question and veering in a different direction. I was going to ask this just after the pictures but forgot. I can't remember erectly how the bonus works. After you make your bonus round picks does it show you where everything was? From my understanding if it reviles the remaining symbols or amounts you would have gotten then the picks are supposedly random and fair.

Quote: AxelWolf

After you make your bonus round picks does it show you where everything was?

No, it does not.

On another note, I feel that it offers you the Card Feature Bonus about once every $1000 worth of action. That is my estimate. Of course, I've gone a couple thousand with no bonus round, and I've also had four bonus rounds in the first couple hundred worth of action. But, I suspect the casino can adjust that.

Although I play max coin, I have seen many other players get the bonus round, AND WIN the major, on smaller and even minimum bets.

By the way, over $1200, it locks up and plays music, just like a royal.

Quote: bobbartop

I feel that if at least one Roo does not convert TWO Crocs, you're screwed for the major. That's just my hunch.

Hello!

I've become a big fan of this slot machine recently. When I read the slot machines pay table instructions, it says that any bet ($3 or $.30) can trigger the progressive card bonus. It makes no mention of higher bets triggering more progressive card bonuses. May I ask how you know that betting $3 has a 10 times higher chance of triggering the card bonus as a $.30 bet? Wouldn't Aristocrat have to make note of that in the slot machine pay table instructions?

Thanks for your insight!

Quote: denise.morris

Hello!

I've become a big fan of this slot machine recently. When I read the slot machines pay table instructions, it says that any bet ($3 or $.30) can trigger the progressive card bonus. It makes no mention of higher bets triggering more progressive card bonuses. May I ask how you know that betting $3 has a 10 times higher chance of triggering the card bonus as a $.30 bet? Wouldn't Aristocrat have to make note of that in the slot machine pay table instructions?

Thanks for your insight!

Hello, it looks like the same thing brought you to post on this forum that brought me here quite a while ago. I too was curious about some of the comments regarding this game. I can offer a couple small observations since then. I remember experimenting with min bets to certain significant amounts of coin-in. And NADA. No "Card Features". At the same time, I HAVE witnessed other players getting it with min bets, although I don't know how long they were sitting there banging their heads against the wall.

When I bet max bet at my local casino, I "feel" I get a Card Feature once in $1000 coin-in on average. I have also given a little play at another casino I feel that it was set differently, giving ice in the winter time. So obviously the casino has options. That's not surprising.

It is a fun game, but I have not played around with it in many months.

I doubt that the details would need to be disclosed in the help screens or paytables, but Nevada Gaming would definitely make them disclose if you could not hit it by betting a lower amount.

Yes, it can be done at minimum bet! My g/f was lucky enough to do it at Gold Strike Tunica last month! Her biggest win ever by a long shot! And she thinks it might be only the 2nd time she's played the "card game".





Generally speaking though, I expect the probability of getting that bonus round is proportional to the wager.

Quote: tringlomane

Yes, it can be done at minimum bet! My g/f was lucky enough to do it at Gold Strike Tunica last month! Her biggest win ever by a long shot! And she thinks it might be only the 2nd time she's played the "card game".


Generally speaking though, I expect the probability of getting that bonus round is proportional to the wager.

Congrats to your girlfriend.

I played yesterday and I have not been playing regularly, I kinda got tired of blowing my brains out. Blowing one's brains out does get old.

I notice that the person who re-started this thread recently, has not been back.

Anyway, I played this yesterday because the Minor was pretty big, over $200, and heck, it's easy to get four sharks. (yeah, right).

So I'm going to post this, even though it may seem like I'm bragging. Which is silly, because it's nothing to brag about. But I showed it to my cat, and he didn't give a rat's ass. I want some recognition, darn it. The Major was $1050, not huge, but I'm keeping it. Fyi, I started with a "Jack", and went clockwise. The two Crocs, a Roo, another Croc, another Roo, and a Jack for the final touch. As someone else in this thread said, if your first pick is a Roo, you're screwed. And I don't think it's possible to get the Major without converting three Crocs. Just my opinion.

By the way, your gf got SIX Jacks? Talk about overkill. Save one for next time. Again, congrats, nice hit.

I play high limit slots the 3 wheels one line $100 for left side $200 a pull for right side the left side pays 800 COINS basically 80k when
I play 2 COINS the progressives starts at 160k I didn't pop it till it
was almost 300 so deff playing 2 COINS is best when the progressive is that
big but after they hit and I play 2 coins it seems like they
will only kick the 80's out on 1 coin not the progressive. So we know the
machine has to hold before it lets go but after a progressive it's 80 for 1
coin or 2 coins for 160k again it takes Years to build up for some reason
it won't release on 2 COINS it will pay smaller ones but not the prog. My
question is, say I put 1000 ticket in machine click on bet one does that
lock the outcome 777 then before pulling the handle I add 1 more coin will
the out come be the same 777 or since the progressive have hit is the
machines holding more till they reach a higher point they have no problem
paying the 80 but the 2 COINS which is 160 180 and climbing last time I
popped it for almost 300 to me that's worth a 2 coin every pull. That's 3 to
1 if it pops But if the progressive is low 160 just after a reset is it
holding and its just as good to hit two 80's then one 160 that may never
come these are my biggest concerns does RNG lock the out come 777 once I
click on one coin or is it still generating till I pull the handle ? i have
always read always play 2 but in a perfect world that makes sense. My last
part the casino makes money I watch people drop 20 k in to 100 machine hit
few little ones I go behind them the next day with 20k more and pop it for
higher ones which brings me back to the whole coin in coin out thing if the
machine holds then pays its doing what it suppose to do? but that 1 coin vrs
2 COINS with left side at 80 and right side at progressive at 160 or 180
will it hold on the 2 coin bet it seems to for me any help I always thought
the rng locked when you hit the bet button not pull the handle , we all
heard ahh you weren't playing 2 COINS after reading your logs it appears
all these Years it's on the pull so by betting 1 lock it then add one more
coin would not give me the Same 777 ? I have lost close to 10 mil 4 Holmes
cars trust fund now I am about to be homeless my problem is not winning its
leaving i stay until it all goes back in so after 40 years of running a
business I'm in a bad spot I signed lifetime bans and they still invited me
back several times but they are protected by cal law and so whatever they
want but if I guy signs a paper please never let me back in here after
losing 250k in 4 hours they say oh no problem just come check in and will
get u a card it's impossible to claim against an Indian casino unless they
cause a gross neg or something if you have any news on how they get away
with that please let me know if this had been in nev they would have not
let me back if I signed a lifetime ban. It's gotta be criminal what they do
, so if u got a good attorney send me his contact # this last time they
invited me back they said we have to be careful we have a fiduciary
obligation to protect you but said come on in and I dropped 450k they lie so much
thanks again!

Hi, Caligold.

That's a tough post to read.

I'm not saying you're unwelcome, but this forum is not going to be of much help to anyone fighting a gambling addiction. We have very little to offer beyond suggesting you approach Gambling Anonymous or one of the other help organizations. Please note I'm speaking for myself here, not the forum.

Perhaps if you were to read everything here and other places about Advantage Play, you could make choices that would allow you to play and survive, by not picking games that take your money to the same extent as you describe. But that just puts you right back into what seems to be a toxic environment for you.

I do not know what California law is regarding casinos that continue to market to you or allow you to continue playing after you've signed a self-exclusion letter. I also don't know whether it differs between Native American establishments and entities under other jurisdictions. Chances are you should discuss this with a California attorney that specializes in NA compacts.

In the end, I guess it comes down to you simply not allowing yourself to drive there.

Sorry, I'm not of much help. I can feel a similar draw myself sometimes, so I can sympathize. But I've learned it has to be up to you, not anybody else. I hit my low point in Atlantic City, about 15 years ago, when I chased a machine so hard I didn't have a dollar left to get back on the Jersey Turnpike and had to take back roads home. I was lucky it was relatively minor, but it woke me up. Perhaps you need to hit a similar low point, I don't know.

Best wishes. Be strong.

Might need to up the stakes some. Do they have any 500/1000 machines?

Quote: MaxPen

Might need to up the stakes some. Do they have any 500/1000 machines?

Whether you are kidding or not, this seems highly inappropriate at this time.

Obviously, I play the 500 and 1000 machines the pay back was bad on the ones i played my questions is the out come lock In when you hit the coin button or is it still generating until you pull the handle ? I must have missed it i always thought when you have placed your bet at 100 by selection play one coin it locks the out come but you don't push the spin button Or pull the handle can you increase the bet to 1 more coin and will the same out come land 777 or does the random number gen keep running until I pull the handle regardless of the amount bet.

I have been told by a reliable source that the outcome locks on either the "spin" button, the "max bet" button, or the handle pull, if betting less than max bet. Pressing the "bet one", if more than one can be bet, does not lock in the spin until "bet one" causes the max bet possible. Most machines will start the spin when you equal that amount. If the machine waits for you to then press "spin" or pull the handle, the spin locks at that point, not before.

There are people here who might answer your question with first-hand knowledge. Take what they tell you over what I said, if any of them answer.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I have been told by a reliable source that the outcome locks on either the "spin" button, the "max bet" button, or the handle pull, if betting less than max bet. Pressing the "bet one", if more than one can be bet, does not lock in the spin until "bet one" causes the max bet possible. Most machines will start the spin when you equal that amount. If the machine waits for you to then press "spin" or pull the handle, the spin locks at that point, not before.

There are people here who might answer your question with first-hand knowledge. Take what they tell you over what I said, if any of them answer.

Babs is correct that it usually locks in when the game starts. The reason being the if the result locked in after the first bet it would be possible to do forensic analysis to determine if you should bet more. E.g. If you bet one coin and it selected a jackpot and you knew it, would you bet more coins? I would.

Thank you then that explains it, why the machine will pay 777 on one bet more times then the with two coins. Bottom line it's luck but don't try to hit a progressive back to back , although it's probable, not likley.... If on a machine that has 200,000 payout with 2 coins the progressive but only 25,000 with one coin then it would be stupid to play 1 coin , so all these sites Say always play max on all progressive is a general statement that the out come is the same the like the casino guide are really not even close the RNG locks on max bet or pull handle or spin wheels. So the machine is not likely to hit a back to back progressive this has been my experience playing for 38 years. Then tend to hold , now days these new ones must hit by 100,k are totally different then old school 3 wheels one pay liners. The new ones are pre program to drop immediately after the drop so the people can see the numbers climbing like a 1,000 pull thunder cash could hit back to back depending on what the reset pay progressive reset at was set as soon as it hits. Vrs the old ones don't say must hit by x dollars it still may have a number but we never see it and not likely to be back to back. As a new one could be thank you I think you nailed it that guy on YouTube should explain that to people a little better on the lock.

Now that you fully understand, it is time to once again up the stakes to the 500/1000 level and get that money back.

Quote: AxelWolf

Now that would be an interesting question, can a casino legally change a machine percentage lower on a progressive once it gets real high? This should be big NO NO. I know casinos have done this in the past on VP machines, a few times, gaming control was called out. It was a mix different decisions made by gaming control.

If a casino changes a slot on you by 5% Your going to tell me you would still have an advantage? Highly doubtful. Lets assume you find a slot machine that's at 10k. You think the cost is somewhere around 8k to hit. You now have a 2K profit over the cycle. If they change the pay back by 5% the machine could now easily cost you 20k to hit, now you would lose thousands of dollars per cycle instead of having a profit.

A casino changed a machine -6% just before they took it out.
I pity anyone who played that game during the bad period.

Slot holds on non-VP progressives are changed all the time. Sometimes up. Sometimes down.
I consider archaic...any progressive hold info more than 6-months-old...but that's not a complete help.
You can always be unlucky/lucky to play some game on the day after the hold was altered up/down.

Got hammered three times when machines were unexpectedly tighter.
...so I've learned my lesson the hard way.

It's very cool when machines are raised +4-8%, and no one else knows (yet). :-)

One time I was watching machine with 2 friends, and saw a pro start playing.
We has decided not to play because of a -2% recent drop, and talked about how the pro probably was clueless about the change. He was around 9930, last I saw him. Twice unlucky - machine hold dropped, and late-dropping progressive.

-----
Hint 1: Any time a bank of machines is altered physically or moved, maybe slot holds have been altered.
Hint 2: If one machine hold has been changed, the VP Slots or GM/Management may have changed philosophy, and other machines' holds may be different.
Technical Note: A software revision may have a different slot hold.
Note: I have not seen a machine setting adjusted twice in the same year. It's not common. It's also rare for a casino to use the same settings for 3 years.

Quote: mamat

Slot holds on non-VP progressives are changed all the time. Sometimes up. Sometimes down.
I consider archaic...any progressive hold info more than 6-months-old...but that's not a complete help.

I disagree 100%. Casino's rarely change the paytables or progressive increment on VP machines.

Quote: DRich

I disagree 100%. Casino's rarely change the paytables or progressive increment on VP machines.

Notice I said "Slot holds on non-VP progressives are changed all the time" ... non-VP progressives

I agree

So your saying the old school chip machines are changed all the time.

I thought the VP machines are changed much more.

I guess what I'm trying to understand does VP stand for video play the new kind of machines Like thunder cash or does VP stand for the old 3 wheels like 777 ? Sorry just a bit confused.

VP means video poker

Thank you !