Patent a betting system?

Quote: FleaStiff

Now if you want to write a book about the SlackyHacky betting system and how it has helped you get rich, get laid and get rid of dandruff you will be able to copyright that book

HA!

Actually, who cares about the book, I'd rather get laid and get rid of dandruff.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

First off, no, you can't patent a betting system.


But assume for a minute that you COULD patent it.

Then what?

How are you gonna prevent millions of ordinary people from using a system that happens to be the same as what you had patented?

That's the real question. Having a patent is only as valuable as your ability and willingness to enforce it. Patent litigation costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, and often millions if you actually end up going through trial with experts and all the trappings. So suppose you had a patent on a gambling system, and Joe Blow was using it. What are your damages? A few hundred bucks? You're not going to hire a $300/hr attorney to go after someone for $300 total, are you?

Quote: MathExtremist

That's the real question. Having a patent is only as valuable as your ability and willingness to enforce it. Patent litigation costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, and often millions if you actually end up going through trial with experts and all the trappings. So suppose you had a patent on a gambling system, and Joe Blow was using it. What are your damages? A few hundred bucks? You're not going to hire a $300/hr attorney to go after someone for $300 total, are you?

I think the value in getting a patent is not to prevent people from using it, but to prevent people from publishing it in case you wanted to sell it. But that would be a difficult task regardless.

It reminds me of the napster salesman on futurama. "You can't shut us down. The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. We've done nothing wrong."

Quote: slackyhacky

I think the value in getting a patent is not to prevent people from using it, but to prevent people from publishing it in case you wanted to sell it. But that would be a difficult task regardless.

I think you misunderstand what a patent is. In order to get a patent on a method, you (the inventor) must disclose that method publicly. You can't get a patent on something secret -- public disclosure is required. And your patent, if issued, would be published at the USPTO's website (patft.uspto.gov).

From 35 USC 112:
"The specification shall contain a written description of the invention, and of the manner and process of making and using it, in such full, clear, concise, and exact terms as to enable any person skilled in the art to which it pertains, or with which it is most nearly connected, to make and use the same, and shall set forth the best mode contemplated by the inventor of carrying out his invention."

It sounds like you want a trade secret, not a patent.

You can't patent a betting system (as an obvious usage of an existing system and products) but you can patent items related to the usage of a sets of hardware and software e.g. a system to allow the sharing of a photograph from a central server to a remote user, which to me is also an obvious usage. (see : A system for creation of an image display such as an electronic postcard, patent 6,542,936).

But there we go. US patent law is kinda odd to me at least. To me, if the patent is not a precise recipe, algorithm or physical device, it's kind of weird to patent an abstract method or concept.

My favourite patent I've heard about is US 6080436 - A method of refreshening a bread product by heating the bread product to a temperature between 250 degree. F. and 450 degree. F. The bread products are maintained at this temperature range for a period of 3 to 90 seconds.

I call that toast. And as Evenbob says, we don't joke about toast.

(I realize it's a little more subtle than that... but not much).

It wouldn't be toast at those temperatures, just warm bread -- but the patent actually says 2500-4500 degrees, not 250-450 degrees. Toasters can't get that hot. They actually get up to about 1000 degrees, but that's different technology than specified by the patent.

More to the point, the US patent system is pretty clear on the unpatentability of abstract ideas. Just ask anyone who's tried to patent a card game lately. The PTO is currently rejecting them under 35 USC 101 for being unpatentably abstract. That wasn't always the case -- I have several card game patents -- but it just goes to show how interpretations change over time.

Quote: MathExtremist

It wouldn't be toast at those temperatures, just warm bread -- but the patent actually says 2500-4500 degrees, not 250-450 degrees. Toasters can't get that hot. They actually get up to about 1000 degrees, but that's different technology than specified by the patent.

You are right, I misread the 2500F there... and even copied it wrong thinking it had copied the degree sign as a 0 ;)

Quote:

More to the point, the US patent system is pretty clear on the unpatentability of abstract ideas. Just ask anyone who's tried to patent a card game lately. The PTO is currently rejecting them under 35 USC 101 for being unpatentably abstract. That wasn't always the case -- I have several card game patents -- but it just goes to show how interpretations change over time.

Sounds good to me. my (uneducated) reading of some software patents are either obvious or prior art, or slightly new usages of existing technologies, or do not detail a specific implementation of an abstract idea or concept. I'm not saying those ideas aren't good ones, but I'm not sure what's gained by the patent around them over getting them implemented and dealing with the various engineering problems they entail.

I'm all for patenting specific software algorithms, as to me they come under the same sort of area as chemical and pharma patents. You can't patent a "method for relieving pain by ingesting a variant of chemical X orally" (or can you?), but you can patent "a chemical compound X that relieves pain in a targeted area". Similarly, it makes sense to me to allow a patent for "minimizing a data file by applying compression algorithm X" but not "a method to minimize a data file by use of a compression method".

Please be all means correct me if I am talking nonsense. It's not an area I fully understand, as is clear ;)

Now imagine if I had asked this same question. Consistent answers or ATTACKS?

Ken

I think that having to patent a betting system would be a nice thing to do. But in the long run, it would have been really hard but I guess it's for the better. I really just hope that it would go out well in the future.
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Bet Online Sports Betting

Quote: MathExtremist

I think you misunderstand what a patent is. In order to get a patent on a method, you (the inventor) must disclose that method publicly. You can't get a patent on something secret -- public disclosure is required. And your patent, if issued, would be published at the USPTO's website (patft.uspto.gov).

From 35 USC 112:
"The specification shall contain a written description of the invention, and of the manner and process of making and using it, in such full, clear, concise, and exact terms as to enable any person skilled in the art to which it pertains, or with which it is most nearly connected, to make and use the same, and shall set forth the best mode contemplated by the inventor of carrying out his invention."

It sounds like you want a trade secret, not a patent.

Maybe. But having it public knowledge isn't the point. The point is to have a way to prevent others from posting it on the website, or selling it or whatever.

Like music I guess.