monet0412
monet0412
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July 12th, 2017 at 1:39:42 AM permalink
Actually I typed out and deleted information on how I consistently beat Reels. I deleted it because most likely nobody will believe or use the information. The reason I post or talk to people about it is because nobody ever takes my advice or if they do believe what I'm saying they don't use the information. I can understand though because let's say I put you on a play and after 4 days you end up losing 1500 after hitting a 4500 dollar jackpot. Your not going to enjoy that struggle and most likely going to think I made a huge error. However if you have the time to keep playing these machines over and over for years your gonna make sbout 15-20k a year and eat for free forever. The other problem for me is I can't show anyone the math on reel machines. I can only tell you that I've put millions upon millions of coin and spins through and I know what can be done. Also some inside information about theoretical return from management that I tip so sometimes tipping can be profitable. Of course I'm not certain they have the correct Theo... but like I said... I really don't know much I'm just a pinball banging around in the Casinos playing games all day and night just firing torpedoes!!

Stop/Loss is ridiculous because gambling or AP is a lifelong session. Just because you quit today up or down doesn't mean your never going to be back in action. I clump all my AP together anyway... I don't see any separation.. I only see in my mind is the return going to be + or - in the long run. Like I say though I'm a Neanderthal.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2017 at 5:40:46 AM permalink
Quote: monet0412

I can't believe I just typed all that information out on Reels and what I thought about this Stop Loss BS and reread it and deleted it lol... anyways... forget it... WTF do I know?!



For what it's worth, I am listening and probably taking notes!
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2017 at 5:59:58 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Post of the year, your dissection, mission. I don't think we disagree except for what constitutes "the majority" these days, and I'll cede the argument to you, as you see many more machines than I do. Really appreciate your making the calculation relatively simple.



Thanks for the compliment, you might even be right about what is actually the majority as I imagine mileage is going to vary from person to person. Also, I'm mainly only looking for machines where an advantage can be had, anyway, so there are a ton of machines I ignore completely. I've probably said this before, but there are probably fewer than ten machines that I find fun to play, in general, and probably only two or three that I think can be fun whether one is at an advantage or not.

Speaking of, will whoever created, 'Diamond Hunt,' please make a progressive version? That game is awesome. There's literally no way to ever justify playing it, though.

Quote:

Should quote it below so you can't delete it. Lol...thanks for taking the time.



I wouldn't delete it, I really don't specifically discuss any machines in it. Further, on the few machines I did mention, I didn't say what the play point is or otherwise admitted to not knowing it.

Also, I think the one I called, 'Quick Hit PRO,' might not actually be that. Quick Hit PRO might be something else, I'll try to remember to look next time.

Quote:

Fwiw, my take on Stop Loss is it keeps me from going on tilt, especially if I'm losing early in a trip. I have a $1000 towel from Atlantis (never used, hanging in a place of honor 20 years), and a 2am trip down the Black Horse Parkway because I didn't have enough cash left to pay the NJ Turnpike toll. Tilts from 20+ and 15 years ago. I don't kid myself that it will have any effect on whether I win.

Learning experiences all around.



Exactly, I agree with Monet that life is all one big session, but that has little bearing on pragmatic concerns for people who are playing negative EV games.
Vultures can't be choosers.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
monet0412
July 12th, 2017 at 7:50:57 AM permalink
Quote: monet0412

Actually I typed out and deleted information on how I consistently beat Reels. I deleted it because most likely nobody will believe or use the information. The reason I post or talk to people about it is because nobody ever takes my advice or if they do believe what I'm saying they don't use the information. I can understand though because let's say I put you on a play and after 4 days you end up losing 1500 after hitting a 4500 dollar jackpot. Your not going to enjoy that struggle and most likely going to think I made a huge error. However if you have the time to keep playing these machines over and over for years your gonna make sbout 15-20k a year and eat for free forever. The other problem for me is I can't show anyone the math on reel machines. I can only tell you that I've put millions upon millions of coin and spins through and I know what can be done. Also some inside information about theoretical return from management that I tip so sometimes tipping can be profitable. Of course I'm not certain they have the correct Theo... but like I said... I really don't know much I'm just a pinball banging around in the Casinos playing games all day and night just firing torpedoes!!



I'll second that I'll eat up any information you're willing to share about slots, because there is a serious lack of good info out there.

I think AP's and gambling writers/mathematicians are mistaken in ignoring a game that covers 90% of the casino floor. Part of the problem is that there are so many damn games, and they're so hard to analyze without a Par Sheet. I think another part of the problem is that they're often dismissed as ploppy games by serious players/writers, when in reality there are plenty of profitable slot plays out there.
monet0412
monet0412
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July 12th, 2017 at 8:03:16 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Exactly, I agree with Monet that life is all one big session, but that has little bearing on pragmatic concerns for people who are playing negative EV games.



I understand what you two are doing and saying... well sorta... When you all start talking .033 and N=32 to the X power of E ... I just kinda glaze over and move on. If people are going to play -EV games and they know they are -EV games and they know they can't win... well they are just having fun or they have a gambling problem and are doomed anyway. You can't reach those people. They are going to do what they are going to do and that is fine. Those people aren't quitting anyway. Stop Loss or Stop Win... blah and BS they are going to get back in action soon enough. I guess you could make an argument for someone trying to play MegaBucks or some other large payoff game that they are taking 100 dollar or 1000 dollar shot at. Take this poker game I sat down to the other night at the Golden Nugget. I was up around 450 in the first 45 mins and left 95 dollars up total after about an hour of play. I don't even know my point anymore lol. I think I have told you all this before... I get home many mornings and my wife will ask how I did? Sometimes I say something like I was up 12 grand but I ended up losing 3 grand total so I gave back the 12 + 3. She will tell me how stupid I was and why didn't I leave with 10k up or 5k up. I tell her... that makes no difference I'm just gonna play the same game tomorrow or some other game. Don't give me trouble. I'm always smart when I win but when I lose she thinks I am greedy or stupid. I tell her don't worry about it they are gonna send me x amount of mail and I made x amount of cash back and we can always eat our way even :)

Anyways...I'm rambling and I clearly don't understand the OPs Slot System or the Stop Win/Loss strategy either. The only way it makes sense to me is if your never going to be in action ever again after you implement your Stop Win/Loss.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2017 at 8:10:41 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I'll second that I'll eat up any information you're willing to share about slots, because there is a serious lack of good info out there.

I think AP's and gambling writers/mathematicians are mistaken in ignoring a game that covers 90% of the casino floor. Part of the problem is that there are so many damn games, and they're so hard to analyze without a Par Sheet. I think another part of the problem is that they're often dismissed as ploppy games by serious players/writers, when in reality there are plenty of profitable slot plays out there.



Those are some interesting points.

A.) I don't know that they, 'Ignore,' them, per se, in the sense of not caring about them at all. I just think that they don't enjoy them as much as other games, if at all.

I believe that one characteristic that most AP's share is the fact that most of them still genuinely enjoy what they are doing. I wouldn't presume to speak for Bob Dancer, but I imagine he is certainly aware that machines other than VP can be played at an advantage, my guess is just that he genuinely enjoys VP and would rather focus entirely on that.

I also think that some AP's who generally don't play or talk about slots would recognize obvious opportunities, usually in conjunction with some kind of promotion.

B.) You're right, it's a PITA to analyze just ONE slot machine without a PAR Sheet. In fact, you're not so much analyzing it as you are making a very educated guess, because it's still usually going to be based on a largely limited sample size. I suppose that's one nice thing about must-hits, other than the fact that you rarely find them in a good position, they are easy to understand and don't require too much by way of analysis. It's really just a matter of what assumptions you want to make about an individual play.

C.) The other thing is, I don't think there is a ton of money in it for most people if you are looking at JUST the machines and not considering other factors. You could try to analyze some sort of Progressive machine only to find that it would have to miss fifteen cycles, or so, before you're ever at the point where you have an advantage!

I mean, VP and VK (Progressives) are pretty easy, the paytable pays a fixed amount depending on playing perfect strategy. You could just play Basic Strategy and you know what that costs you.

That's the point. The time cost of learning a VP game (or just using a strategy sheet) is minimal compared to breaking down an entire slot machine. It also bears reiterating that you could break down a machine just to find it's almost never positive. Certainly playing VP correctly is more difficult than just mashing a button on a slot machine, but identifying an advantage on a slot machine is arguably much more difficult.

So, if you're going to look at just beating the machines, absent any mail, points, promotions or other factors...I think you really need to enjoy doing it just for the sake of doing it for it to really be worth the time cost.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2017 at 8:16:05 AM permalink
Quote: monet0412

I understand what you two are doing and saying... well sorta... well they are just having fun or they have a gambling problem and are doomed anyway. You can't reach those people. They are going to do what they are going to do and that is fine. Those people aren't quitting anyway. Stop Loss or Stop Win... blah and BS they are going to get back in action soon enough.



I would grant that in many cases, but I do want to try to disseminate information that may actually help truly, 'Recreational Players,' the kind of people for whom gambling is just an annual pilgrimage, or something along those lines. I can't save anyone with a gambling problem, to start, I'm not a Psychologist so there's no way I'd ever be able to get to the root problem.

I can definitely identify with the rest of your post! Fortunately, my significant other tries to understand the specifics of what I'm doing and is gradually getting better at not being a, 'Fair Weather Fan.'
Vultures can't be choosers.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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July 12th, 2017 at 8:49:17 AM permalink
The Wizard on slots from American Casino Guide...

https://youtu.be/DtDldt47Dts

https://youtu.be/GNlCLpEI2mc
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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July 12th, 2017 at 1:06:29 PM permalink
Quote: KevinAA


I have compiled the following statistics of replies in this thread:

user       description
Mosca okay
OnceDear okay
QFIT asshole
micheal99000 pretentious jerk
FinsRule dumbass
gamerfreak didn't read
OnceDear okay
monet0412 dickhead
QFIT asshole again


Only 1 in 3 replies were not asshole replies. 2/3rds of the replies are useless and indicate a high level of idiocy. Sad.



Aw man. I can't be a decent asshole even when I'm trying. I need to work at it more.
NO KILL I
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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July 12th, 2017 at 1:43:19 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The Wizard on slots from American Casino Guide...

https://youtu.be/DtDldt47Dts

https://youtu.be/GNlCLpEI2mc



Very Sad Face Emoji after watching these videos.

#1 Don't Play Slots... #10 watch out for Trolls credit hustling... He called them Trolls like they are less human :(
Not my fault some guy left five hundred in the machine and I cashed it out or 2 dollars or whatever I found.

#9 Don't Leave a Machine in a High State but it's ok to AP High State Machines but not ok to Credit Hustle... Oh and don't tip more than 0.5% lol

I've literally seen fist fights break out over Cherry Pies, Boom Machines, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Hurricane, Must Hits, Blazing Sevens... Etc Etc

Reminds me of the guy in my hotel room on the T.V. telling me that the only way to beat slots is to get lucky. (Very Sad Face Emoji)

Oh well, this is why these machines get very little heat so it's good to have all this misinformation out there.

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