DRich
DRich
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September 23rd, 2022 at 4:13:32 AM permalink
Quote: VladPutin


You accept SD/DD blackjack for your betting system challenge? If so I might take you on after some research.



I might accept that bet with the caveat that I will be reshuffling after every hand.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
teliot
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MichaelBluejay
September 23rd, 2022 at 7:27:32 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

No, and since you failed the reading comprehension test, now I'm blocking you.

I just blocked them too. Life is too short to engage with people who want to argue that the Earth is flat
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ThatDonGuy
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September 23rd, 2022 at 7:47:02 AM permalink
Quote: VladPutin

Sounds like you reject blackjack because you're afraid of real math. You're specifically picking games with high HE to make it impossible for betting systems to beat the house edge.

And then you claim betting systems are "completely useless".

You, sir, have just committed a "bait and switch".

The fact that betting systems can not overcome your high HE games is not equivalent to "completely useless" and "makes no difference", iirc those are your own words. The bait and switch here is you're trying to claim they "makes no difference" because they can't over come your high HE games. But that's not what "makes no difference" actually means. It means it does not change the EV.

And that is where you're wrong.

That's why you only take high HE games in your challenge, because you're scared of real math.

If the HE is thin enough, a dent from the betting system can actually turn the EV positive.

According to CBJN, MGM has a 0.19% HE double deck, Paris 0.26% 6D, Aria 0.19% DD, Bellagio 0.20% DD, Caesars 0.26 6D etc etc.

All with thin edges that can be beaten without card counting, merely on the results of previous hands.

TLDR you're a coward hiding behind high house edge games with your challenge while using the fact nobody took your challenge to claim a logical fallacy.
link to original post


Pardon me for asking, but are you willing to describe your SD/DD blackjack "system" in some detail?
If you are, then it can be simulated.
If you aren't, then how does anyone tell the difference between "just using the system" and card counting?

Quote: camapl

Am I the only one who learned PASCAL?
link to original post


No - that was the standard language at UC-Berkeley in my day (early 1980s) for everything in the non-engineering Computer Science degree except assembly language programming (of course) and operating systems (which used C). This includes having to write a compiler in Pascal.
aceside
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September 23rd, 2022 at 8:05:46 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy


Pardon me for asking, but are you willing to describe your SD/DD blackjack "system" in some detail?
If you are, then it can be simulated.
If you aren't, then how does anyone tell the difference between "just using the system" and card counting?

Quote: camapl

Am I the only one who learned PASCAL?
link to original post


No - that was the standard language at UC-Berkeley in my day (early 1980s) for everything in the non-engineering Computer Science degree except assembly language programming (of course) and operating systems (which used C). This includes having to write a compiler in Pascal.
link to original post


When people talk about a betting system, they assume Martingale, but that is not all. I developed a betting system based on blackjack card counting, but cannot test it. Here it is:

Consider a 2-deck blackjack shoe game. We play simultaneously two-hand when the HiLo true count (TC) is greater than +1. Otherwise, we play one-hand. We flat bet all the way on each hand. Can you help simulate my system?
Last edited by: aceside on Sep 23, 2022
unJon
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September 23rd, 2022 at 9:18:36 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Quote: MichaelBluejay

No, and since you failed the reading comprehension test, now I'm blocking you.

I just blocked them too. Life is too short to engage with people who want to argue that the Earth is flat
link to original post



To be fair, he was arguing for a simplistic version of “counting” based on whether previous hands were won or lost in blackjack.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
MichaelBluejay
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September 23rd, 2022 at 10:11:15 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

To be fair, he was arguing for a simplistic version of “counting” based on whether previous hands were won or lost in blackjack.
link to original post

Maybe, but my Challenge page states:

(1) Games are roulette, craps, or baccarat (i.e., not blackjack)
(2) Challenge available only to system sellers
(3) Counting systems are disallowed
(4) Possibly more things that he missed would be revealed by his subsequent posts, which I didn't read

This is one reason the Wizard stopped offering his own challenge. People can't even read the damn rules.
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unJon
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September 23rd, 2022 at 10:16:18 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: unJon

To be fair, he was arguing for a simplistic version of “counting” based on whether previous hands were won or lost in blackjack.
link to original post

Maybe, but my Challenge page states:

(1) Games are roulette, craps, or baccarat (i.e., not blackjack)
(2) Challenge available only to system sellers
(3) Counting systems are disallowed
(4) Possibly more things that he missed would be revealed by his subsequent posts, which I didn't read

This is one reason the Wizard stopped offering his own challenge. People can't even read the damn rules.
link to original post



Yeah I’m not arguing with you. Was just reacting to I’m being characterized that the earth is flat.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
MichaelBluejay
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September 23rd, 2022 at 10:22:28 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Yeah I’m not arguing with you. Was just reacting to [him] being characterized that the earth is flat.
link to original post

Got it. But actually, I wouldn't put it past him.
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IWannaBeAP
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:17:44 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: unJon

To be fair, he was arguing for a simplistic version of “counting” based on whether previous hands were won or lost in blackjack.
link to original post

Maybe, but my Challenge page states:


(4) Possibly more things that he missed would be revealed by his subsequent posts, which I didn't read


link to original post



He basically just said you were "hiding behind" high house edge games and not willing to take on low house edge games where the system can dent the EV. He was proposing blackjack games with ~0.2% House edge. He also called you the "C word" lol
MichaelBluejay
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:28:23 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

He basically just said you were "hiding behind" high house edge games and not willing to take on low house edge games where the system can dent the EV. He was proposing blackjack games with ~0.2% House edge. He also called you the "C word" lol
link to original post

I don't accept blackjack because:

(1) Blackjack can be beaten, with card-counting. (The rules disallow card-counting, but as we've seen, people don't read the rules.)
(2) Coding and debugging takes 20x longer than roulette, craps, or baccarat.

Also, the challenge terms state that the game will use *common* Vegas rules. -0.2% BJ games are pretty rare, I'd call that *exceptional* Vegas rules, not *common* Vegas rules.

Calling someone a c**t seems worthy of suspension, but whatever, I've just blocked him.
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IWannaBeAP
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September 23rd, 2022 at 2:02:08 PM permalink
haha I meant he said "Coward" lol
ViennaPizza
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September 23rd, 2022 at 2:07:00 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay



(1) Blackjack can be beaten, with card-counting. (The rules disallow card-counting, but as we've seen, people don't read the rules.)

link to original post



Bruh you look like you don't know how to read either. Either that or you're ignorant of the math of the games you claim to know. Nobody said anything about card counting.

In blackjack previous wins are negatively correlated with future wins, and vice versa. That's a fact. That has nothing to do with card counting. Assuming ofc using perfect basic strategy.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Sep 24, 2022
MichaelBluejay
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teliot
September 23rd, 2022 at 2:40:42 PM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

haha I meant he said "Coward" lol
link to original post

Oh, I should have figured. Because often when I reject a challenger for whatever reason (or refuse to code someone's idiotic idea of a supposed winning betting system), they call me a coward.

I realize I didn't elaborate on why the terms specify common game rules and not exceptional rules: My challenge offers a whopping 10 to 1 odds. That means a system that has a lousy 10% chance of winning in a casino would be a good bet for my challenge since I'm paying 10-1. No one would consider a system that loses 90% of the time to be a winning betting system, but such a losing system could beat my challenge with the 10-1 payoff.

The requirement that a system must win ≥11 out of 20 tests with each test being 200,000 rounds is based on the edge of the games I allow. An exceptional game (like some promo) with a much lower house edge could have +EV in my challenge, even if it's a worthless losing system in a casino.
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charliepatrick
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:34:16 PM permalink
I use Javascript for my simulations. As has been said you need to ensure you have coded the RNG correctly - ironically you test this by running simulations you know the expected results like tossing coins, craps etc. Writing the games requires programming but once you have, say a deck handler dealing cards from a shoe, you build up basic building blocks. Blackjack doesn't need the suits whereas 3-card poker etc does. Similarly for Baccarat except when adding, say red 8's, bonus payments. (It does have limitations of speed and I've not got round to learn faster languages.)

Interesting that many of us came via Fortran. I first wrote in Fortran in 1974 to study the UK single charts; the program took in a wad of cards, which included the data, and punched out the updated "file" onto cards and a printout of this weeks chart. The other program I remember was the "Game of Life" using "sparse arrays". In those days you sat at a card punch machine typing in your program.
teliot
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September 24th, 2022 at 5:44:29 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

I first wrote in Fortran in 1974 to study the UK single charts; the program took in a wad of cards, which included the data, and punched out the updated "file" onto cards and a printout of this weeks chart. The other program I remember was the "Game of Life" using "sparse arrays". In those days you sat at a card punch machine typing in your program.

The first programing language I learned was Basic. In 12th grade (1974/75) I would get excused from French Class to go to the one and only teletype our high school had, that was connected to the district's mainframe computer. We would code using yellow punch tape so that the whole program could be saved. In those days the big program we worked on was an array-based version of Star Trek, where you had to use trigonometry to figure out the angle to fire a missile at the Klingons. We'd move one array location at a time towards the base for refueling, or avoid colliding with stars, as we went in search of Klingon battle cruisers to fight. Next up was programming a landing game, where we could choose our planet and its gravitational field was fixed, and we had to land our spaceship using individual directions towards firing the retro-rockets, with a fixed fuel supply. I tell you, those games played incredibly slowly over a teletype were just as much fun for us then as anything I've seen since. In 1975 our little club took a field trip to LA College where we were shown a computer that could play chess. With gratitude to my French teacher.
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aceside
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September 24th, 2022 at 6:55:28 AM permalink
I have been learning to program Excel for some time but still am unable to simulate the card-counting scheme I propose below:

Consider a 2-deck blackjack shoe game. When the HiLo true count is greater than +1, we play simultaneously two-hand. Otherwise, we play one-hand. On each hand, we flat bet one unit all the way until the cut card.

Using Wizard’s basic strategy to play a Hit-17 surrender game with a 1.5-deck penetration, can you help simulate the house edge?
ThatDonGuy
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September 24th, 2022 at 8:12:20 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Quote: ThatDonGuy

I do my share of simulations, and I use Visual C#, which is part of Microsoft Visual Studio, which you can download for free.
link to original post



can you share an example of a simulation you did?
link to original post


It's hard to show Visual C# code because of the way it is implemented, but here is the main "loop" code for craps - specifically, pass line betting with 3/4/5x odds:

Note that this code is simplified somewhat to make it easier for people not familiar with the language to read it - for example, I will use "N = N + 1" instead of "N++" here

The letter L following a number indicates it is a "long" (i.e. 64-bit) number

R is a "Random" variable; R.Next(n) returns an integer from 0 to n-1 inclusive


long NumComeouts = 0L;
long Winnings = 0L;
int Die1, Die2;
int Point;
int Roll;

Die1 = R.Next(6) + 1;
Die2 = R.Next(6) + 1;
Point = Die1 + Die2;
if (Point == 7 || Point == 11)
{
// Natural
Winnings = Winnings + 1;
}
else if (Point == 2 || Point == 3 || Point == 12)
{
// Craps
Winnings = Winnings - 1;
}
else
{
if (Point == 4 || Point == 10)
{
OddsBet = 3;
}
if (Point == 5 || Point == 9)
{
OddsBet = 4;
}
if (Point == 6 || Point == 8)
{
OddsBet = 5;
}
// Roll until you roll your point number or a 7
Roll = 0;
while (Roll != Point && Roll != 7)
{
Die1 = R.Next(6) + 1;
Die2 = R.Next(6) + 1;
Roll = Die1 + Die2;
}
if (Roll == Point)
{
// One advantage of 3/4/5x odds is, all wins pay 7 (1 for the original
// pass line bet, plus 6 for the odds bet)
Winnings = Winnings + 7;
}
else
{
// Remember to subtract both the pass line bet and the odds bet
Winnings = Winnings - (OddsBet + 1);
}
}
NumComeouts = NumComeouts + 1;
if (NumComeouts % 100000L == 0L)
{
// Output the number of comeouts and the amount of winnings here
}

For those of you interested in such things, instead of doing R.Next(6) + 1 twice, I usually do:
Roll = R.Next(3600000) / 100000;
Roll = (Roll / 6) + (Roll % 6) + 2;

DRich
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September 24th, 2022 at 8:51:45 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

The first programing language I learned was Basic. In 12th grade (1974/75) I would get excused from French Class to go to the one and only teletype our high school had, that was connected to the district's mainframe computer. We would code using yellow punch tape so that the whole program could be saved. In those days the big program we worked on was an array-based version of Star Trek, where you had to use trigonometry to figure out the angle to fire a missile at the Klingons. We'd move one array location at a time towards the base for refueling, or avoid colliding with stars, as we went in search of Klingon battle cruisers to fight. Next up was programming a landing game, where we could choose our planet and its gravitational field was fixed, and we had to land our spaceship using individual directions towards firing the retro-rockets, with a fixed fuel supply. I tell you, those games played incredibly slowly over a teletype were just as much fun for us then as anything I've seen since. In 1975 our little club took a field trip to LA College where we were shown a computer that could play chess. With gratitude to my French teacher.



I started on FORTRAN with punch cards and the only output device was a line printer. I wrote a checkers game but for every move you made you had to punch a new card and run it through the card reader. The line printer would print a whole new board for every move. It was very slow and rather impractical, but that is all we had back then.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MichaelBluejay
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September 24th, 2022 at 9:10:42 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

I use Javascript for my simulations. As has been said you need to ensure you have coded the RNG correctly
link to original post

Why wouldn't you use the built-in RNG? Most modern Javascript implementations use Xoroshift128+, which is supposedly superior to Mersenne Twister.

These are the best pages I could find that compare modern PRNG's:

Chris Wellons (programmer)

xor... developer

PCG developer (a bit outdated)
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Wizard
Administrator
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September 24th, 2022 at 1:21:59 PM permalink
Quote: VladPutin

Bruh you look like you don't know how to read either. Either that or you're ignorant of the math of the games you claim to know.
link to original post



Personal insult. Three-day suspension.

To respond to an earlier post, I code in C++ and write my own code. Nothing off the shelf. The only code I didn't write is a Mersenne Twister RNG. I also try to write looping programs for a closed-form analysis, wherever I can, but some games, they are simply are not appropriate.

To respond to another earlier post, my first language was BASIC, which I learned in high school in, I belive, 1982. I also learned Fortran and Pascal in college. Also knew my way around a Unix mainframe pretty well.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MichaelBluejay
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September 24th, 2022 at 3:12:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Personal insult. Three-day suspension.

Thank you, Wizard. I think the bigger transgression was that he reportedly called me a coward, but either way.

Quote: Wizard

The only code I didn't write is a Mersenne Twister RNG.

Do you think you might look into any of the newer PRNG's which are reportedly faster and have better statistical quality, like xoroshiro and PCG (as per my post above yours)?
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MichaelBluejay
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September 24th, 2022 at 4:12:59 PM permalink
Looks like Java has been updated (as of JDK 17) to provide more modern PRNG's. There are three groups built in to JDK 17:

. . . • Legacy Group (Math.Random / java.util.Random, ThreadLocalRandom, SecureRandom, SplittableRandom)

. . . • LXM (based on LCG)

. . . • Xoroshiro/Xoshiro

It's interesting that SecureRandom is in the "legacy" group, because I think it's the only one that's a CSPRNG (cryptographically-secure). I think that none of the more modern PRNG's that Java now provides are CSPRNG.
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Mental
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September 28th, 2022 at 2:16:47 PM permalink
A good place to start is to choose some games from Mike's many games that particularly interest you. Think about them and see if you even understand the mechanics of the game. Then decide if your programming skills would be a good match to the problem. Some games require combinatorics, some need Markov chains, some need Monte Carlo simulations. I have no idea what games interest you and what your skill set is. I do know from experience that you want to start by solving problems that have already been solved by several people. Otherwise, how will you know that your new solution is any good.

I wrote my own video poker analyzer 25 years ago. I was constantly finding bugs by comparing hand frequencies against a commercial video poker program. I would write scripts to look for errors in each of the roughly 3M starting hands and then decide which class of errors I would tackle next. I had code that worked for non-wild games, but the code broke when I added a joker. Same thing when I went to handle double jokers, quick-quads, etc.

I guarantee that if you solve a few games that really interest you, you will gains skills that will transfer to other problems. It will also help you recognize beatable games. Ed Thorpe's calculations weren't that difficult or sophisticated. His real genius was in sensing that he could make significant improvements to basic strategy by understanding the effects of card removal. I imagine he learned a lot about the problem as he was writing his programs. You don't learn as much from reading a result from someone else (which may not even be correct).
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aceside
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September 28th, 2022 at 3:21:58 PM permalink
Quote: Mental


I guarantee that if you solve a few games that really interest you, you will gains skills that will transfer to other problems. It will also help you recognize beatable games. Ed Thorpe's calculations weren't that difficult or sophisticated. His real genius was in sensing that he could make significant improvements to basic strategy by understanding the effects of card removal. I imagine he learned a lot about the problem as he was writing his programs. You don't learn as much from reading a result from someone else (which may not even be correct).
link to original post


Every good. I don’t program complicated things myself but would like to simulate some blackjack card counting. I’ve used several online simulation programs to do it but haven’t been able to obtain any consistent results. There are commercial softwares to buy but they are not flexible enough for me to develop. This is really a headache. Is there some way to collaborate with a programmer?
Mental
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September 28th, 2022 at 4:07:49 PM permalink
I use C++ on the backend and I can use any web browser for the GUI.
"Emscripten is an LLVM/Clang-based compiler that compiles C and C++ source code to WebAssembly, primarily for execution in web browsers."
I develop the C++ code and compile emscripten under cygwin, but it works in ubuntu or whatever. Emscriptem replaced PNACL, which was a big pain in the tuckus to use.

I was using Algol and Fortran in the 70's and I was forced to use Fortran again in the1990s. I would hate to do any of my own programming in Fortran.
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Mental
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September 28th, 2022 at 4:22:42 PM permalink
To analyze video poker, you just analyze the best strategy of all 8,000 or so nonequivalent deals and then take the weighted average HE. There is no RNG involved in calculating the HE for video poker. That is what I do in my program and I can do it 1.6 seconds, including generating a strategy. This is an exact result. A MC sim would be slow and inexact.

I assume this is what gordonm888 means by looping -- looping over all possible deals.
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aceside
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September 28th, 2022 at 4:33:49 PM permalink
Do you think it is possible to use Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) in Excel to simulate for the house edge using a certain Blackjack basic strategy to play a billion 2-deck shoes?
ThatDonGuy
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September 28th, 2022 at 6:41:37 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

To analyze video poker, you just analyze the best strategy of all 8,000 or so nonequivalent deals and then take the weighted average HE. There is no RNG involved in calculating the HE for video poker. That is what I do in my program and I can do it 1.6 seconds, including generating a strategy. This is an exact result. A MC sim would be slow and inexact.

I assume this is what gordonm888 means by looping -- looping over all possible deals.
link to original post


8000? There are 134,459 "unique" hands in a standard 52-card deck.
Ace2
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September 28th, 2022 at 7:06:09 PM permalink
Please define unique
It’s all about making that GTA
ThatDonGuy
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September 28th, 2022 at 7:19:10 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Please define unique
link to original post


A "unique" hand is one that is different from the other unique hands even when you switch the suits around. For example, if you have a hand, and then make all of the spades in that hand hearts and all of the hearts in that hand spades, those two are the same unique hand.

Another way to put it: replace spades with "Suit A," hearts with "Suit B," clubs with "Suit C," and diamonds with "Suit D"; the hands formed by assigning spades, hearts, clubs, and diamonds to Suit A through Suit D in each of the 24 orders are the same unique hand.

Examples:
All four Royal Flushes are a single "unique hand"
All four hands that are four Aces are a single "unique hand"
The hands 2s, 3s, 5h, 8d, 9h; 2d, 3d, 5c, 8h, 9c; 2d, 3d, 5s, 8h, 9s are a single "unique hand" - a suited 2 and 3, a suited 5 and 9 of a second suit, and an 8 of a third suit.
Note that 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4s (2, 3, 4 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit) and 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4c (2, 3 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit; 4 in a third suit) are two different "unique hands." If the 4 is a heart, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4s; if the 4 is a diamond, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4c.
Ace2
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September 28th, 2022 at 8:25:16 PM permalink
I think I got it.
It’s all about making that GTA
MichaelBluejay
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September 28th, 2022 at 8:40:24 PM permalink
Quote: aceside

Is there some way to collaborate with a programmer?
link to original post

There are lots of sites where you can hire programmers for one-off projects, like Upwork, StackOverflow, and Fiverr. You might even be able to find some here. (I'm not available now, sorry, and I'm not the best programmer, anyway.)
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teliot
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September 28th, 2022 at 8:41:32 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Ace2

Please define unique
link to original post


A "unique" hand is one that is different from the other unique hands even when you switch the suits around. For example, if you have a hand, and then make all of the spades in that hand hearts and all of the hearts in that hand spades, those two are the same unique hand.

Another way to put it: replace spades with "Suit A," hearts with "Suit B," clubs with "Suit C," and diamonds with "Suit D"; the hands formed by assigning spades, hearts, clubs, and diamonds to Suit A through Suit D in each of the 24 orders are the same unique hand.

Examples:
All four Royal Flushes are a single "unique hand"
All four hands that are four Aces are a single "unique hand"
The hands 2s, 3s, 5h, 8d, 9h; 2d, 3d, 5c, 8h, 9c; 2d, 3d, 5s, 8h, 9s are a single "unique hand" - a suited 2 and 3, a suited 5 and 9 of a second suit, and an 8 of a third suit.
Note that 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4s (2, 3, 4 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit) and 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4c (2, 3 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit; 4 in a third suit) are two different "unique hands." If the 4 is a heart, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4s; if the 4 is a diamond, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4c.
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you are really just talking about the number of equivalence classes of hands under the action of the symmetric group S4 on the suits of each hand. And I agree with your result.
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gordonm888
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gordonm888
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September 28th, 2022 at 9:23:03 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Ace2

Please define unique
link to original post


A "unique" hand is one that is different from the other unique hands even when you switch the suits around. For example, if you have a hand, and then make all of the spades in that hand hearts and all of the hearts in that hand spades, those two are the same unique hand.

Another way to put it: replace spades with "Suit A," hearts with "Suit B," clubs with "Suit C," and diamonds with "Suit D"; the hands formed by assigning spades, hearts, clubs, and diamonds to Suit A through Suit D in each of the 24 orders are the same unique hand.

Examples:
All four Royal Flushes are a single "unique hand"
All four hands that are four Aces are a single "unique hand"
The hands 2s, 3s, 5h, 8d, 9h; 2d, 3d, 5c, 8h, 9c; 2d, 3d, 5s, 8h, 9s are a single "unique hand" - a suited 2 and 3, a suited 5 and 9 of a second suit, and an 8 of a third suit.
Note that 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4s (2, 3, 4 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit) and 2s, 2h, 3s, 3h, 4c (2, 3 suited; 2, 3 suited in a different suit; 4 in a third suit) are two different "unique hands." If the 4 is a heart, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4s; if the 4 is a diamond, it is the same "unique hand" as the one with 4c.
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This concept is standardly called "suit-folding." Which is a shorter way to refer to it.
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aceside
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September 29th, 2022 at 5:53:41 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: aceside

Is there some way to collaborate with a programmer?
link to original post

There are lots of sites where you can hire programmers for one-off projects, like Upwork, StackOverflow, and Fiverr. You might even be able to find some here. (I'm not available now, sorry, and I'm not the best programmer, anyway.)
link to original post


Thank you for your information. The Wizard has simulated a lot of blackjack house edges for a given basic strategy. I am wondering if there is such a program for me to download online somewhere.
MichaelBluejay
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October 1st, 2022 at 9:03:16 PM permalink
On the very first page of this thread I posted the Java code to my blackjack simulator. I don't know whether there are off-the-shelf programs for non-programmers.
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ViennaPizza
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October 9th, 2022 at 2:04:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: VladPutin

Bruh you look like you don't know how to read either. Either that or you're ignorant of the math of the games you claim to know.



Personal insult. Three-day suspension.




Now that I served my 3 day suspension for personal insult, I believe it's time for Michael Bluejay to get a 3 day ban as well.

Not only did he start the insults and the flame, but his insults to me are identical to my insults back to him in idea. In other words, I merely copied his insults. Thus I figured if he can say those stuff to me, I can say the same back. Either neither of us get in trouble or both of us get in trouble. Now apparently I got a suspension for saying that, so I request in the spirit of equal rule enforcement, Michael Bluejay gets a 3 day suspension as well.

Regarding details:

Me: "Bruh you look like you don't know how to read either."

This is a response to

Quote: MichaelBluejay

No, and you failed the reading comprehension test.



Me: "Or you're ignorant of the math of the games you claim to know."

This is a response to

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: unJon

Was just reacting to [VladPutin] being characterized that the earth is flat.
]

Got it. But actually, I wouldn't put it past him.

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October 9th, 2022 at 11:27:52 AM permalink
[ ]
DRich
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October 9th, 2022 at 11:53:07 AM permalink
Quote: aceside

Do you think it is possible to use Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) in Excel to simulate for the house edge using a certain Blackjack basic strategy to play a billion 2-deck shoes?
link to original post



Absolutely
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teliot
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October 9th, 2022 at 5:59:54 PM permalink
I will have to say that the ultimate arbiter of this sort of discussion is working code. After a decade of C, C++, Java, VBE, over the last week I figured out how to code in JavaScript. It's very easy, really, once you know Java, a lot of similarities. So either one can code or they can't. And if you can't, honestly, not anyone in particular, not saying any names, but if you can't code, wtf are you even doing in this thread?

Here is my JavaScript for basic Baccarat:


function init() {
var par = document.getElementById("par");

var a, b, c, d, e, f;
var player, banker;
var isNatural;
var temp, Number, totalHands = 0;
var bNum = 0, pNum = 0, tNum = 0;
var pEV, bEV, tEV;
var BacShoe = [];
BacShoe[0] = 128;
BacShoe[1] = 32;
BacShoe[2] = 32;
BacShoe[3] = 32;
BacShoe[4] = 32;
BacShoe[5] = 32;
BacShoe[6] = 32;
BacShoe[7] = 32;
BacShoe[8] = 32;
BacShoe[9] = 32;

par.innerHTML = "Starting ..." + "<BR>";



for (a = 0; a <= 9; a++) {
for (b = 0; b <= 9; b++) {
for (c = 0; c <= 9; c++) {
for (d = 0; d <= 9; d++) {
for (e = 0; e <= 9; e++) {
for (f = 0; f <= 9; f++) {

player = getPlayer(a,b,c,d,e,f);
banker = getBanker(a,b,c,d,e,f);

temp = 1;
temp *= BacShoe[a];
BacShoe[a]--;
temp *= BacShoe;
BacShoe--;
temp *= BacShoe
;
BacShoe
--;
temp *= BacShoe[d];
BacShoe[d]--;
temp *= BacShoe[e];
BacShoe[e]--;
temp *= BacShoe[f];

BacShoe[a]++;
BacShoe++;
BacShoe
++;
BacShoe[d]++;
BacShoe[e]++;


Number = temp;
totalHands += Number;

if (banker > player)
bNum += Number;
else if (player > banker)
pNum += Number;
else
tNum += Number;


} //f
} //e
} //d
} //c
} //b
} //a

bEV = (bNum*(0.95) + (totalHands - bNum - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;
pEV = (pNum*(1.00) + (totalHands - pNum - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;
tEV = (tNum*(8.00) + (totalHands - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;

par.innerHTML += "Banker Win: " + bNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Player Win: " + pNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Tie: " + tNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Total Hands: " + totalHands + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Banker EV: " + bEV + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Player EV: " + pEV + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Tie EV: " + tEV + "<br>";


}//init

function getPlayer(a, b, c, d, e, f) {
var player1, banker1;

player1 = (a+b)%10;
banker1 = (c+d)%10;

if (banker1 === 8 || banker1 === 9 || player1 === 8 || player1 === 9) {
return player1;
}
else if (player1 === 7 || player1 === 6) {
return player1;

}
else if (player1 <= 5) {
player1 = (player1 + e)%10;
return player1;
}
else {
return player1;
}
} //getPlayer

function getBanker(a, b, c, d, e, f) {
var player1, banker1;

player1 = (a+b)%10;
banker1 = (c+d)%10;

if (banker1 === 8 || banker1 === 9 || player1 === 8 || player1 === 9) {
return banker1;
}
else if ((player1 === 6 || player1 === 7) && banker1 >= 6){
return banker1;
}
else if ((player1 === 6 || player1 === 7) && banker1 <= 5) {
return (banker1+e)%10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 >= 0 && banker1 <= 2) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 3 && e != 8) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 4 && e >= 2 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 5 && e >= 4 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 6 && e >= 6 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else {
return banker1;
}
}
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teliot
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October 9th, 2022 at 6:00:05 PM permalink
I will have to say that the ultimate arbiter of this sort of discussion is working code. After a decade of C, C++, Java, VBE, over the last week I figured out how to code in JavaScript. It's very easy, really, once you know Java, a lot of similarities. So either one can code or they can't. And if you can't, honestly, not anyone in particular, not saying any names, but if you can't code, wtf are you even doing in this thread?

Here is my JavaScript for basic Baccarat, which this extraordinarly sucky message board software has decided to "center" for some reason totally unassociated with my coding.


function init() {
var par = document.getElementById("par");

var a, b, c, d, e, f;
var player, banker;
var isNatural;
var temp, Number, totalHands = 0;
var bNum = 0, pNum = 0, tNum = 0;
var pEV, bEV, tEV;
var BacShoe = [];
BacShoe[0] = 128;
BacShoe[1] = 32;
BacShoe[2] = 32;
BacShoe[3] = 32;
BacShoe[4] = 32;
BacShoe[5] = 32;
BacShoe[6] = 32;
BacShoe[7] = 32;
BacShoe[8] = 32;
BacShoe[9] = 32;

par.innerHTML = "Starting ..." + "<BR>";



for (a = 0; a <= 9; a++) {
for (b = 0; b <= 9; b++) {
for (c = 0; c <= 9; c++) {
for (d = 0; d <= 9; d++) {
for (e = 0; e <= 9; e++) {
for (f = 0; f <= 9; f++) {

player = getPlayer(a,b,c,d,e,f);
banker = getBanker(a,b,c,d,e,f);

temp = 1;
temp *= BacShoe[a];
BacShoe[a]--;
temp *= BacShoe;
BacShoe--;
temp *= BacShoe
;
BacShoe
--;
temp *= BacShoe[d];
BacShoe[d]--;
temp *= BacShoe[e];
BacShoe[e]--;
temp *= BacShoe[f];

BacShoe[a]++;
BacShoe++;
BacShoe
++;
BacShoe[d]++;
BacShoe[e]++;


Number = temp;
totalHands += Number;

if (banker > player)
bNum += Number;
else if (player > banker)
pNum += Number;
else
tNum += Number;


} //f
} //e
} //d
} //c
} //b
} //a

bEV = (bNum*(0.95) + (totalHands - bNum - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;
pEV = (pNum*(1.00) + (totalHands - pNum - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;
tEV = (tNum*(8.00) + (totalHands - tNum)*(-1))/totalHands;

par.innerHTML += "Banker Win: " + bNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Player Win: " + pNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Tie: " + tNum + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Total Hands: " + totalHands + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Banker EV: " + bEV + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Player EV: " + pEV + "<br>";
par.innerHTML += "Tie EV: " + tEV + "<br>";


}//init

function getPlayer(a, b, c, d, e, f) {
var player1, banker1;

player1 = (a+b)%10;
banker1 = (c+d)%10;

if (banker1 === 8 || banker1 === 9 || player1 === 8 || player1 === 9) {
return player1;
}
else if (player1 === 7 || player1 === 6) {
return player1;

}
else if (player1 <= 5) {
player1 = (player1 + e)%10;
return player1;
}
else {
return player1;
}
} //getPlayer

function getBanker(a, b, c, d, e, f) {
var player1, banker1;

player1 = (a+b)%10;
banker1 = (c+d)%10;

if (banker1 === 8 || banker1 === 9 || player1 === 8 || player1 === 9) {
return banker1;
}
else if ((player1 === 6 || player1 === 7) && banker1 >= 6){
return banker1;
}
else if ((player1 === 6 || player1 === 7) && banker1 <= 5) {
return (banker1+e)%10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 >= 0 && banker1 <= 2) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 3 && e != 8) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 4 && e >= 2 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 5 && e >= 4 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else if (player1 <= 5 && banker1 === 6 && e >= 6 && e <= 7) {
return (banker1 + f) % 10;
}
else {
return banker1;
}
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teliot
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October 9th, 2022 at 6:00:06 PM permalink
deleted
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DRich
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October 9th, 2022 at 6:05:14 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

So either one can code or they can't.



Exactly. When hiring I never really cared if the person I was hiring new a particular language. A good programmer can program in any language as it is only semantics at that point.

I have even fibbed when applying for jobs saying I new a particular language. If they offered me the job I would be fluent in that language before my start date.
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MichaelBluejay
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October 9th, 2022 at 9:28:20 PM permalink
Thanks, teliot! I learned a few tricks from your code. Let me return the favor:

(1) You don't have to assign an HTML object to a variable to refer to it, you can just refer to its ID. This line is unnecessary, works fine without it:

var par = document.getElementById("par");

(2) Arrays can be declared and populated in one line, like this:

BacShoe = [128,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32];

For anyone trying to run the code, here's what you need to do to get it to run:

(1) Add the HTML object, the <script> tag, and the call to the init() function, like so:

<div id=par></div>

<script>
init();

[teliot's code]

</script>


(2) Fix the references to BacShoe[]. The forum software interprets an array argument of "b" in brackets to be the command for "bold", which is why teliot's code suddenly turns bold, and an argument of "c" in brackets as the command for "center", which is why teliot's code suddenly gets centered. Copy and paste the code, and then put in the "b" and "c" arguments everywhere they're missing.
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teliot
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Thanked by
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October 10th, 2022 at 2:59:58 AM permalink
Your coding tips are welcome. I listed the array elements that way because of some debugging I was doing, then forgot to put them back. Originally I coded it the way you have it.
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DogHand
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October 10th, 2022 at 6:45:26 AM permalink
teliot,

Thanks for providing your code. I almost always learn something new when I see examples of code from experienced programmers.

One quick question: you have this statement fragment in your code:

banker1 >= 0 && banker1 <= 2

Do you actually have to check if banker1 is greater than or equal to zero?

Dog Hand
teliot
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October 10th, 2022 at 2:13:31 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

teliot,

Thanks for providing your code. I almost always learn something new when I see examples of code from experienced programmers.

One quick question: you have this statement fragment in your code:

banker1 >= 0 && banker1 <= 2

Do you actually have to check if banker1 is greater than or equal to zero?

Dog Hand
link to original post


No, banker1 >= 0 does not need to be checked.
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