Eight loaves of bread puzzle
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15 members have voted
June 15th, 2017 at 6:02:04 PM
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There were two men, Bob and Jim, having a meal. Bob brought five loaves of bread, and Jim brought three. A third man came and joined them. They together ate the whole eight loaves. As he left, the third man gave the other two men eight coins as a thank you.
Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.
What did the Wizard suggest? Free beer to the first answer I consider to be correct. As always, no searching and put answers in spoiler tags.
The question for the poll is what do you consider a fair split? Multiple votes allowed.
Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.
What did the Wizard suggest? Free beer to the first answer I consider to be correct. As always, no searching and put answers in spoiler tags.
The question for the poll is what do you consider a fair split? Multiple votes allowed.
8/21/17 total eclipse reminder.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 15th, 2017 at 6:18:47 PM
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4 coins each
For those terrified of gluten, the very reasonably priced buffet at Gold Coast has gluten free desserts that are surprisingly tasty.
100% risk of ruin
June 15th, 2017 at 6:24:33 PM
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You each ate 2 2/3 loaves, you gluttons. Jim donated 1/3 of a loaf to the stranger, and Bob donated 2 1/3, a ratio of 1:7. Therefore, Jim is due 1 coin and Bob is due 7.
The stranger did not pay for his meal; he offered a gift to the two of you for your generosity and camaraderie. As such, you should take the gift in the spirit in which it was given and split it evenly between you.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
June 15th, 2017 at 6:28:53 PM
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Hmmm.
Assume each had equal appetite and ate 1/3 of the 8 loaves or 8/3 loaves
Now, Bob had contributed 5 (=15/3) loaves and ate 8/3 so he had given 7/3 loaves to the third guy
Jim had contributed 3(=9/3) loaves but ate 8/3 of them. So he had given 1/3 loaves to the 3rd guy
Thus their contributions had ratio 7 to 1, Bob should receive 7 coins and Jim should receive 1
They should then pool their coins and buy 8 pints of beer
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
June 15th, 2017 at 6:30:08 PM
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Quote: JoemanYou each ate 2 2/3 loaves, you gluttons. Jim donated 1/3 of a loaf to the stranger, and Bob donated 2 1/3, a ratio of 1:7. Therefore, Jim is due 1 coin and Bob is due 7.
Yes, this is the answer I was looking for. Congratulations!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 15th, 2017 at 7:15:10 PM
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Nowhere in the problem does it say how many loaves each one ate. The split needs to be based on that.
It reminds me of the time I was proctoring a math contest problem - "On what day of the week will January 1, 2000 be?" (this was asked in 1978) - and gave full credit to anyone whose proof was, "I looked it up in the calendar in the back of the phone book." When the teacher in charge questioned my judgment, I responded, "Nowhere in the problem does it say what day of the week any other day is, and if they have to look that up, then looking up the date for 1/1/2000 is just as valid."
June 15th, 2017 at 9:27:32 PM
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Quote: ThatDonGuy
Nowhere in the problem does it say how many loaves each one ate. The split needs to be based on that.
Fair point. However, if I spelled out that every man ate an equal portion, then an astute reader would know that was pertinent to the problem and focus on bread consumed. I was trying to get the reader to think of that without leading the horse to water. Absent information to the contrary, I think it seems fair to assume they all ate about the same amount.
If you, or anyone, would care to suggest an alternative wording, that doesn't give the answer away, I'm all ears.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 15th, 2017 at 10:04:41 PM
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Wait hold on.
I think it's quite unlikely they'd each eat 2 and 2/3'rds loaves. It's more likely that Jim and Bob each ate 3 loaves and the straggler ate 2 loaves. Y'all really thinking one dude's like, "okay so we have a total of 8 loaves and 3 people, that's 2.66 loaves each.....I'll give him 1/3 of one of my loaves and you give him 2 and 1/3 loaves of your bread, that way we'll all have 2 and 2/3'rds loaves to eat!"
It's also likely Bob ate 5 loaves Jim ate 3, because one would only bring enough bread to eat. Doesn't seem like they were expecting the straggler to arrive. The breadless straggler likely was paying off a bet he had lost.
Notice how straggler shows up AFTER they are having a meal. He likely does this often and was told, "go away, this isn't communist Russia! Go get your own darn bread!!"
I think it's quite unlikely they'd each eat 2 and 2/3'rds loaves. It's more likely that Jim and Bob each ate 3 loaves and the straggler ate 2 loaves. Y'all really thinking one dude's like, "okay so we have a total of 8 loaves and 3 people, that's 2.66 loaves each.....I'll give him 1/3 of one of my loaves and you give him 2 and 1/3 loaves of your bread, that way we'll all have 2 and 2/3'rds loaves to eat!"
It's also likely Bob ate 5 loaves Jim ate 3, because one would only bring enough bread to eat. Doesn't seem like they were expecting the straggler to arrive. The breadless straggler likely was paying off a bet he had lost.
Notice how straggler shows up AFTER they are having a meal. He likely does this often and was told, "go away, this isn't communist Russia! Go get your own darn bread!!"
June 15th, 2017 at 10:19:08 PM
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Quote: RS
Notice how straggler shows up AFTER they are having a meal. He likely does this often and was told, "go away, this isn't communist Russia! Go get your own darn bread!!"
Hammer sickle your way right out of this bread party, mister.
100% risk of ruin
June 15th, 2017 at 10:26:56 PM
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The real question.... who brought the peanut butter and jelly?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 15th, 2017 at 10:38:40 PM
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I find I'm partial to solutions where Bob ends up getting the most!
June 15th, 2017 at 11:47:27 PM
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God bless cowboys, God bless gold.
God bless my uncle, God rest his soul.
He taught me well, boys, taught me all I know.
Taught me so well that I grabbed the gold
Left his dead ass there by the side of the road
God bless my uncle, God rest his soul.
He taught me well, boys, taught me all I know.
Taught me so well that I grabbed the gold
Left his dead ass there by the side of the road
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
June 16th, 2017 at 4:13:43 AM
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Well here is the average man (non mathematician) answer
Bob and Jim were just being kind to the stranger. The payment was unexpected. Neither man being mathematically inclined or giving a damn about proportional consumption much less fractional computational math kept any track of who ate what
Happy they received coins from the stranger they split the money in either of two ways dependent on how much the bread originally cost
A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially
B) if the bread was some weird amount e.g.$2.67 per loaf the 8 coins were split equally because neither Bob nor Jim hav the time nor interest(read intelligence) to do anything different
Anyway those are the real world answers :)
Bob and Jim were just being kind to the stranger. The payment was unexpected. Neither man being mathematically inclined or giving a damn about proportional consumption much less fractional computational math kept any track of who ate what
Happy they received coins from the stranger they split the money in either of two ways dependent on how much the bread originally cost
A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially
B) if the bread was some weird amount e.g.$2.67 per loaf the 8 coins were split equally because neither Bob nor Jim hav the time nor interest(read intelligence) to do anything different
Anyway those are the real world answers :)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 16th, 2017 at 4:30:04 AM
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It is not stated in the question how much each man ate, so I'd make the following assumptions:
1) bob ate the most because he brought the most
2) Jim ate more than the stranger because Jim brought something and the stranger was just getting a free meal
3) each man ate a whole number loaves of bread
4) all 8 loaves the bread were consumed
The only solution that satisfies all four of those is Bob ate 4, Jim ate 3, stranger ate 1
So it turns out that Jim ate exactly what he brought to the dinner , bob ate four of the five loaves he brought and the stranger ate one of the loaves bob brought. Therefore bob should get all 8 coins.
1) bob ate the most because he brought the most
2) Jim ate more than the stranger because Jim brought something and the stranger was just getting a free meal
3) each man ate a whole number loaves of bread
4) all 8 loaves the bread were consumed
The only solution that satisfies all four of those is Bob ate 4, Jim ate 3, stranger ate 1
So it turns out that Jim ate exactly what he brought to the dinner , bob ate four of the five loaves he brought and the stranger ate one of the loaves bob brought. Therefore bob should get all 8 coins.
June 16th, 2017 at 4:33:34 AM
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If the bread (slot) machine malfunctioned, a 4th dude would use that as an excuse to take all the coins. (Malfunction voids all pays)
June 16th, 2017 at 4:48:36 AM
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If only you had posed this question back in April, I would have been able to collect! As it is, there is currently no Vegas trip on my horizon. I will gladly donate my beer to whichever local WoV member is the thirstiest.Quote: WizardYes, this is the answer I was looking for. Congratulations!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
June 16th, 2017 at 7:28:11 AM
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Quote: michael99000It is not stated in the question how much each man ate, so I'd make the following assumptions:
Absent information to the contrary, I think it is reasonable to assume they each ate the same amount of bread.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 16th, 2017 at 8:01:34 AM
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If one person brings 5 loaves and another person brings 3, either the two have an agreement ipso facto that:
The 8 loaves are community bread and we can eat up to four each -or-
5 of these loaves belong to you, 3 belong to me. I get to eat 3 loaves, you get to eat 5.
There are variations of course: they're different kinds of bread, one bread is more expensive. None of these are stated.
The payment of the 8 coins should be based on the ipso facto arrangement.
If it is the first arrangement, payment is equal (they are one happy commune)
If it is the 2nd arrangement, 5 goes to the person who brought 5 and 3 to the person who brought 3.
The 8 loaves are community bread and we can eat up to four each -or-
5 of these loaves belong to you, 3 belong to me. I get to eat 3 loaves, you get to eat 5.
There are variations of course: they're different kinds of bread, one bread is more expensive. None of these are stated.
The payment of the 8 coins should be based on the ipso facto arrangement.
If it is the first arrangement, payment is equal (they are one happy commune)
If it is the 2nd arrangement, 5 goes to the person who brought 5 and 3 to the person who brought 3.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
June 16th, 2017 at 8:10:41 AM
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Quote: darkoz
A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially
That is exactly my reasoning and what I think is the "real-world-non-mathematician" answer.
It is completely irrelevant who ate how much bread. Bob is in the red financially for the cost of 5 loaves of bread, and Jim is in the red for the proportionate amount for 3 loaves of bread. They should split the coins proportionate to the amount of bread they each brought, not by how much was eaten.
June 16th, 2017 at 9:22:06 AM
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Here is another similar question
A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner. They agree to split the check
After the check is served the math Wizard says his share of the bill is 1/7 because he ate less food than the AP. He uses a calculator to prove it. The AP says they both should pay equally because they agreed to split the bill
The waitress overhears the argument and suggests they each pay for the cost of their respective orders to settle the argument
Both the Wizard and the AP demand the casino host be contacted so he can pay for the meal as a comp
The casino host agrees to pay for the entire meal if both players gamble over $1000
The Wizard and the AP play the doey dont at Craps
They agree to split the cost of the losses
How much money does the Wizard and the AP split?
A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner. They agree to split the check
After the check is served the math Wizard says his share of the bill is 1/7 because he ate less food than the AP. He uses a calculator to prove it. The AP says they both should pay equally because they agreed to split the bill
The waitress overhears the argument and suggests they each pay for the cost of their respective orders to settle the argument
Both the Wizard and the AP demand the casino host be contacted so he can pay for the meal as a comp
The casino host agrees to pay for the entire meal if both players gamble over $1000
The Wizard and the AP play the doey dont at Craps
They agree to split the cost of the losses
How much money does the Wizard and the AP split?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 16th, 2017 at 9:24:01 AM
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Quote: darkozWell here is the average man (non mathematician) answer
Bob and Jim were just being kind to the stranger. The payment was unexpected. Neither man being mathematically inclined or giving a damn about proportional consumption much less fractional computational math kept any track of who ate what
Given that I'm the one asking the question, it can be fairly assumed that both men are perfect logicians and don't mind measuring things to fractional amounts.
Quote:Happy they received coins from the stranger they split the money in either of two ways dependent on how much the bread originally cost
A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially
What difference does it make what a loaf of bread costs? Given that I'm the one asking the question, you can assume that both men will analyze the problem to death and won't be happy unless they perceive they are paid a fair amount.
Quote:B) if the bread was some weird amount e.g.$2.67 per loaf the 8 coins were split equally because neither Bob nor Jim hav the time nor interest(read intelligence) to do anything different
You also seem to be ignoring the fact that Bob and Jim ate some of the bread. Does it seem fair that they should get paid for bread they ate?
Quote:Anyway those are the real world answers :)
Maybe for most people but not my world.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 16th, 2017 at 9:31:22 AM
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Quote: darkozHere is another similar question
A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner. They agree to split the check
After the check is served the math Wizard says his share of the bill is 1/7 because he ate less food than the AP. He uses a calculator to prove it. The AP says they both should pay equally because they agreed to split the bill
The waitress overhears the argument and suggests they each pay for the cost of their respective orders to settle the argument
Both the Wizard and the AP demand the casino host be contacted so he can pay for the meal as a comp
The casino host agrees to pay for the entire meal if both players gamble over $1000
The Wizard and the AP play the doey dont at Craps
They agree to split the cost of the losses
How much money does the Wizard and the AP get?
Costs them $13.88 each, in value, to play craps.
June 16th, 2017 at 9:34:18 AM
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Quote: RSCosts them $13.88 each, in value, to play craps.
Correct. So the cost of the dinner end result was $13.88 to each person
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 16th, 2017 at 9:47:37 AM
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Quote: darkozHere is another similar question
A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner.
This has happened so many times I'm going to make a separate thread for it, but with different assumptions.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 16th, 2017 at 9:56:54 AM
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Quote: WizardThis has happened so many times I'm going to make a separate thread for it, but with different assumptions.
Always happy to contribute
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
June 16th, 2017 at 10:07:10 AM
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Quote: darkoz
They agree to split the cost of the losses
How much money does the Wizard and the AP split?
Trick question... they don't split any losses. Since they are a math wizard and an AP, they know to quit while they are ahead!! :D
June 16th, 2017 at 11:00:52 AM
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There were two men, Bob and Jim, havingsharing a meal. Bob brought five loaves of bread, and Jim brought three. Before they started to eat, a third, equally hungry man came and joined them. They together ate the whole eight loaves. As he left, the third man gave the other two men eight coins as a thank you.
Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.
What did the Wizard suggest?
---------------
You can take out the "equally hungry" part if you think it is overkill, since "sharing" has been added.
Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.
What did the Wizard suggest?
---------------
You can take out the "equally hungry" part if you think it is overkill, since "sharing" has been added.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
June 16th, 2017 at 3:11:40 PM
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Quote: RogerKintFor those terrified of gluten, the very reasonably priced buffet at Gold Coast has gluten free desserts that are surprisingly tasty.
I always ask for extra gluten when I eat out myself.
the answer seems obvious to me, which means I have the wrong answer.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 16th, 2017 at 3:25:15 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaThere were two men, Bob and Jim, havingsharing a meal. Bob brought five loaves of bread, and Jim brought three. Before they started to eat, a third, equally hungry man came and joined them. They together ate the whole eight loaves. As he left, the third man gave the other two men eight coins as a thank you.
Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.
What did the Wizard suggest?
---------------
You can take out the "equally hungry" part if you think it is overkill, since "sharing" has been added.
I think the part of being "equally hungry" will be what the reader focuses on. Furthermore, perfectionists will argue it may take more food to fill up some people than others. Maybe I should have added that they started and finished eating at the same time, which could lead to the assumption they consumed about the same amount.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 16th, 2017 at 3:32:00 PM
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Quote: michael99000
Therefore bob should get all 8 coins.
OOH! I like this solution even better!
June 16th, 2017 at 3:44:22 PM
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I don't think there's any way around it. The fact that they all ate exactly the same amount is vital to getting to the answer you are considering the correct one , but is not obvious enough to just expect people to assume. Three people " sharing" a meal does not at all imply they ate the same amount nor does them all eating for the same length of time (everyone eats at their own speed)
As a matter of fact, I'd actually assume they didn't all eat the same amount because they didn't bring the same amount. If you and I decide to drink together and you bring a case of beer while I bring a six pack, would you assume we both planned on drinking the same amount ?
As a matter of fact, I'd actually assume they didn't all eat the same amount because they didn't bring the same amount. If you and I decide to drink together and you bring a case of beer while I bring a six pack, would you assume we both planned on drinking the same amount ?
June 17th, 2017 at 3:20:07 AM
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btw I can't get google translate to do Götterfunken
it will do 'gods' for Götter, and 'spark' for funken, but it seems unlikely it means 'godspark' unless that is like 'goddamn' or something
PS: regular google did better, but the word seems to be connected to 'Ode to Joy' poem by Shiller
first line:
Freude, schöner Götterfunken = Joy, beautiful spark of the gods
Godspark it, explain yourself, Wizard!
it will do 'gods' for Götter, and 'spark' for funken, but it seems unlikely it means 'godspark' unless that is like 'goddamn' or something
PS: regular google did better, but the word seems to be connected to 'Ode to Joy' poem by Shiller
first line:
Freude, schöner Götterfunken = Joy, beautiful spark of the gods
Godspark it, explain yourself, Wizard!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 17th, 2017 at 6:18:26 AM
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Quote: michael99000I don't think there's any way around it. The fact that they all ate exactly the same amount is vital to getting to the answer you are considering the correct one , but is not obvious enough to just expect people to assume. Three people " sharing" a meal does not at all imply they ate the same amount nor does them all eating for the same length of time (everyone eats at their own speed)
As a matter of fact, I'd actually assume they didn't all eat the same amount because they didn't bring the same amount. If you and I decide to drink together and you bring a case of beer while I bring a six pack, would you assume we both planned on drinking the same amount ?
Let's say you and your friends go to Hooters and order a basket of wings. When it comes time to pay the check do you divide it exactly according to how many each person ate?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 17th, 2017 at 6:20:06 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitFreude, schöner Götterfunken
Yes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 17th, 2017 at 8:42:33 AM
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Quote: WizardYes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.
although it doesn't have that meaning, I think I kind of like it as a new cussword to use!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 17th, 2017 at 9:27:19 AM
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Quote: WizardYes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.
Our local German expert, Axel. ;-)
June 17th, 2017 at 9:52:02 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitalthough it doesn't have that meaning, I think I kind of like it as a new cussword to use!
Götterfunken is allowed as a curse word here at WoV, I might add.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
