ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy 
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 95
  • Posts: 4334
January 16th, 2015 at 8:00:19 AM permalink
Quote: Deck007

Assuming what you said is true this would put the casino out of business. They would get 40% only of their previous revenue and be a loss making entity.


This makes two assumptions - first, that it's going to be a permanent deal, and second, that the prices aren't already inflated.

Haven't you ever seen a business have a "We Pay The Sales Tax" sale?

This is equivalent to dropping prices by 5.7%. I have a feeling bars and restaurants can handle this. Where the biggest hit might be is in the other stores, assuming Malaysian casinos have them.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
  • Threads: 7
  • Posts: 1482
January 16th, 2015 at 11:11:32 AM permalink
Quote: Deck007

No hypothetical situation. It is happening in Malaysia.

The question is for mathematician or accountant



In order to understand it and assess it, we would need the circumstances clearly defined.

I haven't heard that yet.

I'm going to assume that the government is looking to take 6% of hold as tax.

That would be: customer buys in for $200, leaves the table with $100, hold is $100, tax is $6.


The real sting isn't the tax in this case, but that a government agent is going to come and repeatedly audit the casino looking for irregularities (and possibly accept bribes to overlook irregularities), and impose penalties because of table accounting problems.

Note that this isn't a sales tax, as far as I can tell - to my mind, that would mean that for every $10 wager, the government takes 6% (60c). That makes games like roulette, baccarat, and blackjack have too low of a house edge to be on offer. The only game left would be Big 6.

Effects to the player will likely be that table minimums increase, possibly rules get a little worse, and the pit scolds you a lot for ratholing (because there is now a tax impact for misreporting the cash-out).
May the cards fall in your favor.
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 594
January 16th, 2015 at 11:43:12 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

In order to understand it and assess it, we would need the circumstances clearly defined.

I haven't heard that yet.

I'm going to assume that the government is looking to take 6% of hold as tax.

That would be: customer buys in for $200, leaves the table with $100, hold is $100, tax is $6.


The real sting isn't the tax in this case, but that a government agent is going to come and repeatedly audit the casino looking for irregularities (and possibly accept bribes to overlook irregularities), and impose penalties because of table accounting problems.

Note that this isn't a sales tax, as far as I can tell - to my mind, that would mean that for every $10 wager, the government takes 6% (60c). That makes games like roulette, baccarat, and blackjack have too low of a house edge to be on offer. The only game left would be Big 6.

Effects to the player will likely be that table minimums increase, possibly rules get a little worse, and the pit scolds you a lot for ratholing (because there is now a tax impact for misreporting the cash-out).



Wrong, the OP described it it's a tax on buy in.

So if you buy in for $1K, leave with $2K, the casino owes a $60 tax, and loses $1060 on the deal.

If you buy in for $10K, play 1 hand, push, and cash out, the casino owes a $600 tax on that buy in.

Now, this being malaysia, I doubt casinos there report their revenue honestly.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 7056
January 16th, 2015 at 12:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: sc15



Now, this being malaysia, I doubt casinos there report their revenue honestly.



Perhaps you should check. Looks to me like the only casino in Malaysia is owned by Genting. As a large multinational public corporation, I doubt they'd risk the domino effect that'd come from mis-reporting revenues.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 594
January 16th, 2015 at 12:13:05 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Perhaps you should check. Looks to me like the only casino in Malaysia is owned by Genting. As a large multinational public corporation, I doubt they'd risk the domino effect that'd come from mis-reporting revenues.



Cuz you know, a public company has never committed fraud before.

And the people running the casino are probably malaysians.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 7056
January 16th, 2015 at 12:24:11 PM permalink
Quote: sc15

Cuz you know, a public company has never committed fraud before.

And the people running the casino are probably malaysians.



I suppose either of those things is possible. But both are highly unlikely.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
  • Threads: 7
  • Posts: 1482
January 16th, 2015 at 4:04:31 PM permalink
Quote: sc15

Wrong, the OP described it it's a tax on buy in.



Wrong, the OP stated a presumption that it was a tax on buy in.

To me, that makes about as much sense as taking a cut off of all bank deposits, while making it illegal to not post the full amount to the account.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Deck007
Deck007
Joined: Mar 3, 2014
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 344
January 16th, 2015 at 4:39:03 PM permalink
Folks let us leave aside what make sense or not.

I am hoping that some mathematician may not be in the same stature as the Wizard can tell me how this tax would affect the company's P & L statement.

What impact it will have on the top and bottom line of the P & L statement.

I assume the tax is imposed/triggered at the buy-in time and refund of tax for the remaining chips will be excised when the player cash in their chips.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 3540
January 16th, 2015 at 5:11:02 PM permalink
Quote: Deck007

Folks let us leave aside what make sense or not.

I am hoping that some mathematician may not be in the same stature as the Wizard can tell me how this tax would affect the company's P & L statement.

What impact it will have on the top and bottom line of the P & L statement.

I assume the tax is imposed/triggered at the buy-in time and refund of tax for the remaining chips will be excised when the player cash in their chips.



It will not affect the bottom line at all if they don't want it to. If they are paying 3-2 on blackjacks, they switch to 6-5. If they are using a pay table on a carnival game that has a house edge of 4.5% they change the pay table to one that has a house edge of 6.5%. Everything gets passed on to the consumer.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Deck007
Deck007
Joined: Mar 3, 2014
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 344
January 16th, 2015 at 5:23:56 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

It will not affect the bottom line at all if they don't want it to. If they are paying 3-2 on blackjacks, they switch to 6-5. If they are using a pay table on a carnival game that has a house edge of 4.5% they change the pay table to one that has a house edge of 6.5%. Everything gets passed on to the consumer.


ZCore13



No. There is no such thing as a 6-5 BJ here.

You cannot just change the HE from 4.5% to 6.5%.

Just like slot. You cannot just change the HE from 10% to 16%. Nobody will play.

  • Jump to: