Math in Movies and TV Shows
Interestingly, I discovered that this theorem/proof is real and was created and proved by one of the writers, who also happens to be a Ph.D. mathematician. Wikipedia page here. I'm not mathematical enough to understand the proof. The amazing part, to me, is that this was not something just made up to resolve the plot, but rather something that was provable. I think this is cool, even if I don't understand the math behind it.
Obviously, a television show like Numb3rs has references to all kinds of mathematical things. Other tv shows and movies might have references to mathematics. We've even talked about different instances on this forum website. I guess this thread is to ask, what math references did you like or not like in tvs and movies. While Numb3rs is an interesting show, I find sometimes that it has unrealistic views on certain things, especially the usage of computers. The episode where they track down a hacker by watching IRC chat rooms made me want to throw things at the tv. But this thread isn't about computers, it's about math.
So, let's talk about tvs and movies that showed something doing with math, and how they were right on and it was great, or how they were incredibly wrong, and either it made you hate the scene, or the changes they made were ok because it helped the scene.
Edit: Incidentally, I'm not thinking about movies/shows that are actually about math or concerned with math. But rather, math in usage in other types of movies.
Whenever a TV show portrays people playing bingo, they always, without fail, mismatch the letters and numbers at least once. You always hear the caller calling out numbers such as B-63 or N-16 or O-33. I have never -- not once, ever -- seen a bingo session within a TV show where they did not make this mistake at least once. It's almost as if they do it intentionally.
Anyway, thanks for listening. Please proceed to talk about math as requested.
The only other real math reference outside of Futurama or The Simpsons that I can think of off the top of my head is an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Captain Picard is pondering the "unsolved" Fermat's Last Theorem.
Quote: konceptumI mostly watch shows in syndicate, re-runs, Hulu, or Netflix, so I'm not privy to a lot of stuff at the time it happens. Recently, I was watching an episode of Futurama. In this particular episode, the Professor creates a machine that allows two people to switch minds, ie, Person A's mind goes into Person B's body, and vice-versa. However, there is a limitation, in that once a pair of people's minds have been switched, that same pair cannot be switched again. They could be switched with other people, but any particular pairing cannot be switched again.
It was fun to have the Globetrotters back :)
However, I'm afraid the same premise was used in an episode of Stargate SG-1 several years before. First Daniel Jackson switches minds with an alien named Machelo. Then Jack O'Neil and T'ealc accidentally exchange minds as well. When they want to unscramble the egg, so to speak, they find the limitation that once A switches with B, they can't switch back.
Sam solves the problem once they locate Machelo waking around in Daniel's body. So the eps were different in story. However, there was no need to show a mathematical proof in the SG-1 case.
Quote:Edit: Incidentally, I'm not thinking about movies/shows that are actually about math or concerned with math. But rather, math in usage in other types of movies.
There's a children's movie, quite old, called "The Phanotm Tollbooth," which requires the hero to solve mathematical riddles in the course of his animated adventures.
Quote: JBI know this thread is to be about math, but I can't help but voice my concerns over something very disturbing that I have observed in multiple television shows.
Whenever a TV show portrays people playing bingo, they always, without fail, mismatch the letters and numbers at least once. You always hear the caller calling out numbers such as B-63 or N-16 or O-33. I have never -- not once, ever -- seen a bingo session within a TV show where they did not make this mistake at least once. It's almost as if they do it intentionally.
Anyway, thanks for listening. Please proceed to talk about math as requested.
not in my PURVIEW
I have vague recollections of that movie. Mainly of it being very disturbing to me.Quote: NareedThere's a children's movie, quite old, called "The Phanotm Tollbooth," which requires the hero to solve mathematical riddles in the course of his animated adventures.
Quote: RogerKint
I remember that episode. I had high hopes for CYE. They only blew it on one number, which is better than most shows.
thats really bad at math because they're trying
to avoid the obvious stereotype.
Quote: Gabes22Is there some copyright laws dealing with that. I do know in movies they can't use real phone numbers or real addressed. For instance in "The Untouchables" set in Chicago they use the address 1634 Racine to where Sean Connery's character lives. 1634 S Racine would be where a park is, and 1634 N Racine is when Racine would be right in the center of the Chicago River.
If you are talking about Bingo, I don't think so - I remember episodes of Las Vegas and M*A*S*H that had Bingo games, and don't remember any incorrect letter-number combinations in either.
Warning: Thread Tangent Approaching
As for phone numbers, I remember one show mentioning on a DVD commentary that they had either gotten a warning or a fine because, while it had used a "555" phone number, recently the FCC had made a deal with phone companies so they could use 555 numbers (usually in number-forwarding services, although 555-1212 has always been directory assistance), and only numbers between 555-0100 and 555-0199 could be used in fiction, which is why you are not imagining things when you think that pretty much every phone number in the movies now is 555-0199.
They got the balls correct in the bingo scene on Curb Your Enthusiasm
Re: Fake phone numbers
One thing on my "bucket list" is to call 867-5309 and ask for Jenny. So far, I still haven't worked up the nerve.
Quote: WizardRe: Bingo
They got the balls correct in the bingo scene on Curb Your Enthusiasm
In that part of the episode they did, but in another part of that same episode, the clip that RogerKint linked to on page 1, they made a mismatch (G 41).
Quote: WizardRe: Bingo
They got the balls correct in the bingo scene on Curb Your Enthusiasm
Re: Fake phone numbers
One thing on my "bucket list" is to call 867-5309 and ask for Jenny. So far, I still haven't worked up the nerve.
What area code will you use?
Quote: JBQuote: WizardThey got the balls correct in the bingo scene on Curb Your Enthusiasm
In that part of the episode they did, but in another part of that same episode, the clip that RogerKint linked to on page 1, they made a mismatch (G 41).
You're right; I didn't check that link before. Shame on Larry. I commission HB to go to his house and correct him.
Quote: only1choiceWhat area code will you use?
Whichever one I'm when I get up my nerve. Assuming here -- 702.
Quote: JohnzimboI always wondered...were the problems in the hallway in Good Will Hunting actual problems? Anyone know?
Yes, they were real problems in linear algebra.
One scene Sheldon was talking about how being saved by Superman is unrealistic, and first talks about someone falling from a building, "accelerating at 9.8 feet per second per second". No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
Another scene Leonard mentioned GABA, otherwise known as gamma-amino-butyric-acid (I think, too lazy to look up and confirm) Point is, the actual term nobody in the profession would use in dialogue, they would just say GABA. It's unrealistic.
Quote: ewjones080No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
It's not even close to that.
Quote: ewjones080One scene Sheldon was talking about how being saved by Superman is unrealistic, and first talks about someone falling from a building, "accelerating at 9.8 feet per second per second". No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
And it's 9.81 meters per second squared :)
Quote: DocIt's not even close to that.
From the NASA site:
"The acceleration is constant and equal to the gravitational acceleration g
which is 9.8 meters per square second at sea level on the Earth."
Quote: konceptumSo, let's talk about tvs and movies that showed something doing with math, and how they were right on and it was great, or how they were incredibly wrong, and either it made you hate the scene, or the changes they made were ok because it helped the scene.
It's My Turn (1980) was about a female mathematician. The movie is well known among mathematicians because the full proof of the Snake Lemma is given in the first scene and all of the mathematics on blackboards is correct. The director insisted on getting everything accurate and realistic even though not one person in a thousand in the audience could possibly understand it.
One of the early episode of the Simpsons where Bart gets himself transferred to a genius school, because he hears they don't have grades. The episode used a completely accurate Calculus joke. The joke breaks up everyone in the class except Bart who suddenly feels like he made a big mistake.
Big Bang Theory episode in which Sheldon says "9.8 meters per second squared" the first time, and then he says "9.8 meters per second per second" the second time.
Quote: ahiromuI have absolutely no problem with that statement other than it's not the conventional way to say m/s^2, it makes perfect sense.
You might say it that way in a teaching situation as well. If you are trying to emphasize that acceleration is the rate of change of velocity relative to time. In reality you are making no statement about current speed (which could easily be zero).
It is very common mistake for beginning physics students. If you tell a student that an object is accelerating at 10 meters per second square, and then you ask what the speed of the object is, the student will say 10 .
Quote: ahiromuYou are accelerating at a rate of 9.8 meters per second per second. I have absolutely no problem with that statement other than it's not the conventional way to say m/s^2, it makes perfect sense.
I'd settle for physics teachers explaining what "per second squared" means. My junior high school teacher was so bad at explaining such things, that I had to ask my chemistry teacher about it.
Quote: ThatDonGuyWarning: Thread Tangent Approaching
As for phone numbers, I remember one show mentioning on a DVD commentary that they had either gotten a warning or a fine because, while it had used a "555" phone number, recently the FCC had made a deal with phone companies so they could use 555 numbers (usually in number-forwarding services, although 555-1212 has always been directory assistance), and only numbers between 555-0100 and 555-0199 could be used in fiction, which is why you are not imagining things when you think that pretty much every phone number in the movies now is 555-0199.
Bruce Almighty did NOT use a 555 number in its movie, and many people received phone calls asking to speak with God. This obviously caused a lot of complaints. However, one of the people with the number was a Reverend named Bruce (or so he claimed). He used this to his advantage to help spread the word. I can't find the article now, but it was very interesting when I first read it.
Since the DVD came out, the number has been changed to a 555 number.
As for the OP, a funny gambling clip is from South Park, where the town needs to earn $300,00 to save South Park. They go to the local Indian Native American casino, and put it all one number for a 35:1 payout, which Kyle reads about in a book. The number miraculously hits, when Kyle's gambling addict father suggests they do it one more time to become super rich, leading to one of the funniest lines from Stan's dad, "Oh hell yeah, let it ride!" The number misses and the town gives out a collective sigh.
This has to do with math because they get a lot of the math correct. South Park usually tries to make sure that all the numbers and everything add up.
Quote: Gabes22Is there some copyright laws dealing with that. I do know in movies they can't use real phone numbers or real addressed. For instance in "The Untouchables" set in Chicago they use the address 1634 Racine to where Sean Connery's character lives. 1634 S Racine would be where a park is, and 1634 N Racine is when Racine would be right in the center of the Chicago River.
I don't think it is a law so much as the do not want either a lawsuit or just don't want to hassle people. "555" can be seen being used as early as the 1970s. I remember a pop-up video that said something like 40 people in the USA had 867-5309 when the song came out and yes, they got people calling for "Jenny." I do know my first time in NYC looked for the optometrist that Sol Rosenberg called on the tape (40 W 60th St IIRC) and to my suprise there was still an optometrist in the building! I could not get inside but snapped a pic to show my buddies wih whom I used to listen to the tape. As a side note, if you listen to the bootleg version of the tape that doctor is says, "hello, Rosenberg speaking..." so that is the reason the nurse sounds so confused at the call saying, "but what is your name?!"
If you watch "Casino" Sam tells Lester to call him at 702-474-1862 to which I instantly noted when I watched it that there was no 555. When I moved out and got my own phone I called the number-just hung up. Somewhere I read it was for the "Idle Spurs" place from the movie but IRL at one time, but could be wrong on that.
Quote: konceptum
So, let's talk about tvs and movies that showed something doing with math, and how they were right on and it was great, or how they were incredibly wrong, and either it made you hate the scene, or the changes they made were ok because it helped the scene.
Edit: Incidentally, I'm not thinking about movies/shows that are actually about math or concerned with math. But rather, math in usage in other types of movies.
I liked "Numb3rs" for its use of math and using it to solve crimes. Loved the female FBI Agent--something about a hot and smart woman is great. I love when any movie uses this kind of plot device. They did it in "Margin Call" though you never really "saw" the log like they showed math on whiteboards in "Numb3rs." BTW: They say all that math was right on the boards, even if it meant nothing to the plot the equations worked. The math-guys on here can confirm or disprove that.
On a related note, what is driving me crazy is the new "Dallas" and how they treat the oil scenes. First they talk about SouthFork having "2 Billion bbl" under it. To put that in prespctive, the USA has about 20 billion bbl of non-shale oil in the entire country per the latest CIA Workd Factbook. This alone is beyond "suspend disbelief."
Next, they talk about some charachter trying to "buy some old leases." Well, typical oil leases only stay in force as long as there is production from the well. When production stops, the lease ends and a new lease may be signed. Just say you want to research who owns it and buy a new lease from them! They show drilling on the SF ranch when the driller has no lease. They talk about sale of the ranch but seem to forget that all Bobby has to do is insert the words, "excepting and reserving all oil, gas, and other hydrocarbons or minerals," and nobody can legally drill.
Sorry for the rant, realize not everyone is a landman and it is a TV show. But come on, guys, at least try to make it look real.
Quote: ewjones080There's a lot of stuff I dislike about The Big Bang Theory. Not because it's inaccurate--I wouldn't know anyway for the physics stuff--but because a lot of the lines try "sound smart".
One scene Sheldon was talking about how being saved by Superman is unrealistic, and first talks about someone falling from a building, "accelerating at 9.8 feet per second per second". No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
I'll let my Dad (specialist in physics) and my old Physics teacher know that. Both uses per second per second to make the rate of change clear.
(s/feet/meters/)
Yeah, it's a bit antiquated but as another poster said, spelling out the term can be useful when you are trying to work through what it MEANS to the problem you are looking at, rather than plugging A into F=ma, where the units all come out nice and easy.
I thought Numb3rs started strong, but it, like most shows, started to stretch and fray at the edges. CSI (and the derivatives) are lousy for forensic science... again started okay, but rapidly went into TV-magic-science-land.
Quote: thecesspitCSI (and the derivatives) are lousy for forensic science... again started okay, but rapidly went into TV-magic-science-land.
Par for the course.
But just to heap on... I read a note in the paper about a European doctor who claims to have examined cases, probably all of them, show on House MD. The gist is that had a real doctor treated those patients, medically, that way, he'd have ended up with a big pile of corpses.
About CSI, and other cop and forensics shows, one thing I've also read is that no system can match a fingerprint to a database. Rather the computer narrows it down to several prints, and then a human expert takes over and determines who, if anyone, matches the print. Now, for pacing and dramatic reasons, I understand the show simply getting an answer in a few seconds from the computer.
Maybe the Mythbusters should tackle a CSI/TV Forensics special, the way they've done with James Bond and McGyver
I think he also says, "I'm on a winning streak of one!" -- which I use all the time.Quote: ThatDonGuy
As for the OP, a funny gambling clip is from South Park, where the town needs to earn $300,00 to save South Park. They go to the local Indian Native American casino, and put it all one number for a 35:1 payout, which Kyle reads about in a book. The number miraculously hits, when Kyle's gambling addict father suggests they do it one more time to become super rich, leading to one of the funniest lines from Stan's dad, "Oh hell yeah, let it ride!" The number misses and the town gives out a collective sigh.
Quote: NareedBut just to heap on... I read a note in the paper about a European doctor who claims to have examined cases, probably all of them, show on House MD. The gist is that had a real doctor treated those patients, medically, that way, he'd have ended up with a big pile of corpses.
This website shows a review of every episode of House, as well as a medical critique of the cases on the show. S/he talks about what was done right and what was done wrong. Really a fascinating read for anybody that's a marginal fan of the show. If you really like the show, you might not like seeing how often Dr. House was wrong. On the other hand, for someone like me, who started off a fan of the show and slowly drifted into non-caring, it's kind of fun to read the reviews.
Quote: konceptumReally a fascinating read for anybody that's a marginal fan of the show.
Marginal? More like hardcore.
There are similar websites for lawyer shows. I vaguely recall one long ago for "The Practice."
Quote: NareedAnd it's 9.81 meters per second squared :)
I remember learning it as 32 feet per second per second. (Which is approximately 9.81 meters psps.) But that was way back in 9th grade too, so maybe the accepted parlance has changed since then.
I love the Futurama episodes that include the Globetrotters, and how they are written as mathematical geniuses1
Quote: Toes14I remember learning it as 32 feet per second per second. (Which is approximately 9.81 meters psps.) But that was way back in 9th grade too, so maybe the accepted parlance has changed since then.
I suppose at schools they still teach in Imperial units. But scientists have long since changed to the metric system. Therefore a physicist would be expected to quote the value of "g" in meters.
Quote: ewjones080
One scene Sheldon was talking about how being saved by Superman is unrealistic, and first talks about someone falling from a building, "accelerating at 9.8 feet per second per second". No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
You mean 9.8 meters.
"Meters per second per second" is a pretty common expression actually. It is meaningful and sensible too. WTF is "second squared" anyway?
I mean, can you imagine a square with a side equal to one second? "Second squared" would be its area ...
It is also convenient to express slower accelerations sometimes in units like "meters per second per hour" for example.
"meters per second per second" isn't the weirdest of all units of measure btw. Take Hubble's constant for example. It is measured in kilometers per second per megaparsec. This is really just one over second yet, "one over second" doesn't really mean anything, while kilometer per second per Megaparsec tells you that it is a measure of a (quite slow) change of velocity per unit of distance.
Same story with acceleration - "meters per second per second" tells you that we are talking about a change in velocity with time, while "meters over second squared" is just a formal notation without any meaning.
One maker of bumper stickers "Don't Like My Driving? Dial 1-800 EAT SH*T" utterly ruined the 800 number for a trucking company.
Most staff writers do not really understand topics much beyond the "cocktail party" level where they could impress a half drunk bimbo and not much more.
CSI's DNA testing would usually require at least a 72 hour long show, most of which would be rather boring.
And any show on arson testing made more than ten years ago should probably be flipp-flopped on guilt and innocence because everything that was previously "known" about arson fires seems to have been utterly wrong.
Any show that involves a kidnapped/murdered child and the ditty "Look at the inlaws, before the outlaws" should be changed because contrary to popular belief most children kidnapped from a home during the night are in fact taken by strangers.
So as ever in Hollywood: The Studio Doesn't Want It Accurate, They Want It Tuesday!
Quote: ewjones0809.8 feet per second per second... No one would say that. It's 9.8 feet per second squared.
actually it is a good way to look at it; the rate is 9.8 meters per second. The increase in the rate is also per second. You sort of need a comma in there.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyOne show I won't watch anymore is Criminal Minds, they routinely screw up nearly everything involving science and technology.
Too funny! Dr. Reed, the young "genius," is playing VP in Vegas during an episode, and, while talking to a hooker playing next to him, states something similar to the following. By playing optimal strategy and always drawing for the royal, a player can increase his edge to 2 or 3 per cent. lol
Interestingly enough, I got a glimpse of the paytable on the screen and was able to pause it in order to jot it down...
ROYAL FLUSH - PROGRESSIVE (unknown reset and unknown current value)
FOUR DEUCES - 2000
STRAIGHT FLUSH - 500
WILD ROYAL FLUSH - 200
FIVE OF A KIND - 150
WILD STRAIGHT FLUSH - 100
FOUR OF A KIND - 100
FULL HOUSE - 40
FLUSH - 30
STRAIGHT - 30
THREE OF A KIND - 20
I assumed it was a 20-coin machine, but no... It indicated a 5-coin bet on a $1 denomination machine. Anyone seen such a pay table for a Deuces variant? Note the two payouts for straight flushes - one for natural and one for wild.
He left 2,025 credits on the machine and told her to keep it as he left to follow a new lead.
I'm sure some of the posters here could palm themselves off as math or computer geeks who program the oxygen tank metering system or who do executive overrides on the voice recognition systems and the face recognition scanning (or more likely boob recognition scanning) at the poolside day clubs.
I've got this "laser watch" for clocking a roulette wheel anytime a sweet young thing decides to park it beside me.
And if the woman happens to be a somewhat bright BJ player who likes to up her bets from time to time, I've got this surveillance monitoring system that taps the calls from The Eye to The Pit. I have a program that decodes the lip reading between Floor and Pit.
There is no limit to what people will believe ... particularly about pumping that oxygen into the casinos.
re: math numbers. If we're expanding this to STEM topics, I loved the first Die Hard. Wanted very much to enjoy Die Hard II, but the ATC/electronics were so far off, they ruined the movie for me. NOTHING they did about any of it was credible, from how they handled the inbounds to how the villains corrupted the glide slope. Was very disappointing; ignorance is bliss, I guess, when you're watching adventure flicks. FWIW, if you want a real idea, both in work environment and operating habits of ATC, do go back and look at Pushing Tin from approx 1998; please try to ignore the bad love story in the second half, but they captured the best representation ever of what it is/was to work in a busy TRACON and how our brains work, as well as some very typical aberrent types I've worked with. FWIW, the folks shown under the opening credits are/were NY controllers, including a couple who were working 9/11, as well as the technical advisor for the show. It was all actors/extras after the credits, however.
