chefphydeaux
chefphydeaux
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 4:56:06 PM permalink
I think a lot of people confuse the meaning of the terms bankroll, session money, and buy-in. At least the accepted definition of those words by APs, pro gamblers, writers and the like. They use them interchangeably , and most of us understand what the person is attempting to say.
To me "Bankroll" is the money I have set aside purely for casino use. It is not the rent/mortgage, nor any other bill. It is truly disposable income. Session money is the portion of the bankroll taken to said casino to use. Buy-in is a smaller portion of the session money, simply used at a specific game, in this case UTH. Huh... starting to sound like George Carlin's bit " a place for your stuff"!

My session money is usually 500$. Buy in money is usually 100, some games it becomes 105, due to the math. For UTH I use 105$, basically 5 hands at a pure minimum bet at a 5$ game. Ima sucker for the 1$ progressive bet, I am fairly close to even on that bet. Yea I know... way way under capitalized, but that is all I am willing to risk. I do follow most of the WOO basic strategy to the game. I will raise 4x any ace, any 2 faces, and pairs. I will not raise 2x unless I have a pair or better, and don't chase 4 to a straight or flush.

I have taken a SWAG and bumped up to a 10$ bet on the opening bets(trips,ante,blind). I am hesitant to 4x raise, but will 3x all Aces and pairs. I have been very fortunate to have fallen into my only royal and straight flushes with the "double bet" out, for a very nice, "go home" hands.

As with any of the games I play, and I stick to craps, BJ and UTH, with the occasional Pai gow poker tossed in, doubling the buy in is a sign to leave. I don't count every dollar and instantly quit, but do have an idea where I am money wise. Last night I was up around 75 bucks, kinda running even with the house, losing single play bets, but winning most of the double and 4x. I took the time to "double up" 10$ on the trips, ante,blind. Hole cards were Q6 unsuited. flop came 6,6,2. 2x raise on the play. Turn/River came QK for a full house. A nice little payout! Got 8x on the Trips, 3x on blind, and the even money on ante/play, + 9 for flopping a set. Walked out a little over 200$ ahead!
That's just my money management, it seems to work ok, and keeps me from turning a win into a loss. Too many times I have found myself up 112$ on a craps table and try ot get to 200$, and watch it turn into a 200$ losing day. Take the money and run.
khoyle2001
khoyle2001
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
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April 5th, 2012 at 9:34:14 AM permalink
First I would like to thank you all for your comments! I always try and listen to everyone's ideas and then glean from that what I should do. I started playing UTH because I have always been a BJ man but have grown tired of it and started looking for a new game to play during a "cooling off period" away from BJ. I feel into UTH by accident and found a game that is interesting to play (because I have always liked card games and poker) so this is why all my questions.

I do agree with "chefphydeaux" on the money should be "extra money". Not rent money or food money, but extra money that if lost will not cause me a hardship. For me $400 has been that number (I have been thinking about moving that to $500 because I have run the numbers and my finances say that number is acceptable) if I go for one night to a local casino.

If I go out of town the "bankroll" is the money I start with each trip and the Session money is what I start with each night (if I go away for the weekend (to Kansas City lets say) and go to stay at a casino or near a casino) I take a bankroll of lets say $600 and then each night start with a session money of $200. If I lose that then I am done for the night and either watch others or go do something else. If I am winning then I go until I am tired and then stop. "BUT" the next night I still only start with $200! Each night is unto itself.

I follow WOO very close to the rules/percentages that should produce results. I said "close" but not all the way on WOO rules. I have problem with betting 4x on Ace anything (I like A7 on up but have a problem with betting 4x on a A2). I like to start out at $5 spots (trips, ante, blind) and see how the cards are playing. If the dealer is hot I keep it there if the cards are being good to the players I will bump it up to $10 a spot. (Yes I play the trips bet even though I know for the most part it is a bad bet.) I will not chase the 4 to a straight but will to a flush (I dont know the percentage on making a flush with 4 cards showing same suit, but I have noticed more times then not that I do make the flush.)

I am not looking to get rich, but have a good time and hopefully go home with a few hundred in my pocket. I must be doing something right because I play for hours and (more times then not) walk away being some $ up. At worst down a couple hundred. I keep track of my winnings and loses and as of right now I am a few hundred ahead.

Again, thank you all for your input! Good luck to you all!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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April 5th, 2012 at 11:29:08 AM permalink
Betting 3x over 4x will cost you on average of 6.235% in HA. In otherwords, the HA goes from 2.18% to 8.42%.

You bet 4x because you have an advantage.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
khoyle2001
khoyle2001
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 9
April 6th, 2012 at 8:43:39 AM permalink
sorry! HA? Whats that? I am new at the lingo (trying to learn). So again, whats HA?
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 6th, 2012 at 8:45:40 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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April 6th, 2012 at 11:03:52 AM permalink
So, I've taken the WOO's table here and manipulated the first two card value to show the expected value based on the 1st two cards.

Initial CardsExpected Value Initial CardsExpected Value
5/K unsuited-0.117582 2/K suited-0.074507
8/Q unsuited-0.069429 6/K unsuited-0.020774
6/Q suited-0.006074 3/K suited0.022
2/A unsuited0.04173 7/Q suited0.062776
7/K unsuited0.081354 3/3 pair0.088456
8/J suited0.107386 4/K suited0.117016
9/Q unsuited0.132505 3/A unsuited0.147447
8/K unsuited0.166259 10/J unsuited0.174024
5/K suited0.219148 4/A unsuited0.249395
8/Q suited0.278932 6/K suited0.309149
9/J suited0.317837 6/A unsuited0.339763
5/A unsuited0.358541 10/Q unsuited0.369495
9/K unsuited0.371024 2/A suited0.399855
7/K suited0.403899 J/Q unsuited0.455681
4/4 pair0.46157 7/A unsuited0.465996
8/K suited0.481611 9/Q suited0.489199
3/A suited0.496714 8/A unsuited0.575314
4/A suited0.590105 10/K unsuited0.607484
6/A suited0.649275 9/A unsuited0.667695
5/A suited0.690217 J/K unsuited0.691991
9/K suited0.694571 7/A suited0.767431
10/J suited0.778841 Q/K unsuited0.782942
5/5 pair0.831643 8/A suited0.86889
10/A unsuited0.906071 10/Q suited0.943595
9/A suited0.953564 J/A unsuited0.991767
J/Q suited1.024156 Q/A unsuited1.080609
10/K suited1.148469 6/6 pair1.159873
K/A unsuited1.171914 J/K suited1.2275
Q/K suited1.31262 10/A suited1.409312
7/7 pair1.486948 J/A suited1.489507
Q/A suited1.572705 K/A suited1.658326
8/8 pair1.811461 9/9 pair2.132513
10/10 pair2.480803 J/J pair2.749739
Q/Q pair3.018649 K/K pair3.289359
A/A pair3.601073


Some observations. Why do you raise 4x when the EV <0?

If you are going to do 3x as money management or because you have a hunch or for whatever reason, I would only consider doing so on the first few rows of the table.

Once you get past about .50, I think you're throwing a substantial part of your house advantage away.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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April 6th, 2012 at 11:12:24 AM permalink
Thanks, this is useful.
Quote: boymimbo

Some observations. Why do you raise 4x when the EV <0?


Just a thought: You lose less then you would by checking? By the way, if you are going to do a scavenge play (e.g., put an extra $5 on someones 3x raise to make it 4x, or go half on a 4x raise), you should not do so on any -E.V. hands, for obvious reasons.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
khoyle2001
khoyle2001
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
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April 7th, 2012 at 7:32:19 AM permalink
Thank you!
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
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April 9th, 2012 at 3:36:10 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Thanks, this is useful.

Quote: boymimbo

Some observations. Why do you raise 4x when the EV <0?


Just a thought: You lose less then you would by checking? By the way, if you are going to do a scavenge play (e.g., put an extra $5 on someones 3x raise to make it 4x, or go half on a 4x raise), you should not do so on any -E.V. hands, for obvious reasons.


Yep, its because you lose less than by checking. You can use this calculator to see the difference between raising and checking.
For scavenger play, you can do any hand that wins more often than it loses. You can use this table. This includes hands that normally would be checked like pocket deuces.

When I play UTH, I bet $3 Ante and Blind, $2 trips and $1 progressive. What can I say, I'm a sucker for side bets.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
  • Threads: 150
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August 11th, 2013 at 6:35:38 AM permalink
Quote: miplet

Quote: teddys

Thanks, this is useful.

Just a thought: You lose less then you would by checking? By the way, if you are going to do a scavenge play (e.g., put an extra $5 on someones 3x raise to make it 4x, or go half on a 4x raise), you should not do so on any -E.V. hands, for obvious reasons.


Yep, its because you lose less than by checking. You can use this calculator to see the difference between raising and checking.
For scavenger play, you can do any hand that wins more often than it loses. You can use this table. This includes hands that normally would be checked like pocket deuces.

When I play UTH, I bet $3 Ante and Blind, $2 trips and $1 progressive. What can I say, I'm a sucker for side bets.

Thanks, Miplet.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4

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