Could a relatively "no house edge" casino be created?

Quote: FleaStiff

I thought Stations casinos were rolling in it...

I meant relatively speaking. They're not like, say, MGM (although I do like SC a hell of a lot more).

Quote: Birdgang

Could there be a fairer yet still lucrative way to do casino gaming? Could there be a configuration of games a casino offers (traditional and carnival) where there is little to no house edge, but the casino takes a commission on winning wagers?

Okay, I'll ask: how is taking a commission really different from "house edge"? Isn't the HE in baccarat based on betting with the bank, which takes the 5% commission into account? The bets are just paying reduced odds (in this case, 19-20 rather than 1-1).

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Okay, I'll ask: how is taking a commission really different from "house edge"? Isn't the HE in baccarat based on betting with the bank, which takes the 5% commission into account? The bets are just paying reduced odds (in this case, 19-20 rather than 1-1).

In Baccarat, the HE changes with the amount of decks I think, so I'm not sure how it's calculated.

But the point of a commission in my 'fantasy casino' would be to offer true odds and simultaneously ensure revenue for the house. I'd much rather lose 2%, or so on a winning 38 to 1 wager on roulette, rather than play at a 35 to 1 table, if the option came up. Coupled with even money bets where you could dismiss a commission (perfect world), I think you'd make off much better under that scenario.

Quote: Birdgang

In Baccarat, the HE changes with the amount of decks I think, so I'm not sure how it's calculated.

But the point of a commission in my 'fantasy casino' would be to offer true odds and simultaneously ensure revenue for the house. I'd much rather lose 2%, or so on a winning 38 to 1 wager on roulette, rather than play at a 35 to 1 table, if the option came up. Coupled with even money bets where you could dismiss a commission (perfect world), I think you'd make off much better under that scenario.

The players would be better off, sure. But the casinos are in competition with each other, and are in business to make money to support their massive debt loads that they incurred to build their billion-dollar properties. If you only made $5 per day per player from a door charge and all the games were theoretically free, you'd need to shuttle millions of players per day through the property. That's physically impossible. The model works online where you're not space-constrained -- and I've done zero-EV games for some online casinos -- but it can't possibly work in a B&M casino unless you make the entrance fee something like $100 each. There are casinos in Europe that charge a door fee and then offer -EV games, but I don't know of any that offer 0EV games.

The bottom line is that no casino would knowingly hamstring their revenue model when the market doesn't call for it. There is significant demand for gaming as it currently is. The casinos that stick to the current model will have significantly greater revenues than any casino that would switch to your proposed fantasy casino model. But your costs are the same as a regular operation, so your profits will necessarily be lower (or your losses bigger).

^^^^^^^^^^
+1

Quote: Birdgang

In Baccarat, the HE changes with the amount of decks I think

If this is true, then "true odds" would change as well.

HE is usually determined by:
(a) Determining every possible result;
(b) Determining the probability that this result happens;
(c) Multiplying the probability of the result by the amount won or lost;
(d) Adding up all of the values determined in (c) for all of the results in (a).

The "true odds" in any card game change with each card dealt - that's why there's card counting.

What are the "true odds" of winning in blackjack with a 104-card (2-deck) deck and the dealer hitting on soft 17?
It's certainly not 1-1.

Quote: vendman1

Exactly, I've tried to explain this to some friends of mine who enjoy roulette. Their response is "but it pays 35 to 1"...sigh.

Quote: Beethoven9th

LOL! The funny part is that I know plenty of (otherwise) intelligent people who say the same type of thing. It's amazing how people are so willing to throw away their money.

Not at all! I'm teaching proba and statistics. Believe me, they're just SO frightened of math that they have more fun NOT trying to work out their chances. To make a comparison, I'm so bored of all the chores of filling my IRS documents that I prefer paying more just to get rid of it.