Yet another dealer tip thread

The poll question is hwo do you prefer to tip the dealers.

Side bets are usually self-evident, but in craps they include anything other than a pass/come or don't pass/don't come bet (hardways, horn, CE, etc)

I mentioned to the Wizard during my trip that I place side bets for the dealers at table games, mostly at craps. He told me I should place better bets for them, like pass line bets, or to just give them a striaght tip. In the main I agree, but I've noticed all dealers warm up to me the minute I place a bet for them, no matter how bad it is. And more than when I give them a straight tip soon after the buy-in.

My MO is to place a dealer or two-way hardway bet when the point is 6 or 8, and then wih the dealers good luck. Sometimes I'll do it with a 4 or 10, too (though I think the odds are the same for any hardways). If it hits, well and good. If not, I'll tip the dealers $5 anyway and say "This is for the one that dind't hit." And then they really warm up to me.

At the Venetian playing 6 Card Poker, I'd bet $1 on the side bet for myself and $1 for the dealer. Sometimes I'd bet $2 for me and $1 for the dealer (that's the best thing about that game, too). At one point it hit at 30 to 1 for a 4-of-a kind. And that's the most I ever got the casino to tipa dealer for me :)

The way I see it is that it's always a good thing for the dealers to feel kindly towards me, so I tip early. And it's better for them if I don't gamble their tip money, on the other hand they seem to like a $1 hardway bet better than a $5 straight bet. So i compromise as outlined earlier.

Hmmmmm... I wonder which way fleaStiff will vote?

When I make a bet for the dealer, I tend to make it an even money type bet

Quote: Nareed

... Sometimes I'll do it with a 4 or 10, too (though I think the odds are the same for any hardways). ....

Not quite, unless perhaps you mean the odds of getting the dealers on your side.

The hard 6 and 8 are paid as if you lose on nine of ten resolutions, rather than the real ten of eleven, giving HE = 1/11 = 9.09%.

The hard 4 and 10 are paid as if you lose on seven of eight resolutions, rather than the real eight of nine, giving HE = 1/9 = 11.11%.

I generally tip my change at the end of a session, down to the nearest $20. So if I color out with $155 I'll tip $15, etc. It's probably not quite enough on average, but I hate (hate!) watching tip bets lose.

It is pointless to tip at the end of a session,
Your tipping increases the likelihood of favorable treatment from the dealers,
As well as the chance of a better rating from the floor.
You should tip early on and when the floor is watching.
I cannot tell you how many times the dealers have forgotten
to move a come bet to the 4/10 when I have tipped.
I've also seen dealers give a tell at BJ when they have 10 in the hole.
Tip on the first win.
I usually place a buck next to my bet at the tables, or
A two-way hardway at craps.

Would you tip a dealer crew when several players (Plural) were blatantly cheated right in front of you?

Quote: WongBo

It is pointless to tip at the end of a session,
Your tipping increases the likelihood of favorable treatment from the dealers,
As well as the chance of a better rating from the floor.
You should tip early on and when the floor is watching.
I cannot tell you how many times the dealers have forgotten
to move a come bet to the 4/10 when I have tipped.
I've also seen dealers give a tell at BJ when they have 10 in the hole.
Tip on the first win.
I usually place a buck next to my bet at the tables, or
A two-way hardway at craps.

I guess it depends on whether you're tipping because you'd like to receive good service, or because you feel that you just received good service. Tipping at the end of the session would follow the established convention for restaurant service, taxi cabs, and hotel housekeepers. Tipping mid-session would follow the established protocol for valet attendants (arguably) and bartenders (assuming you want another less-watered down drink later).

Quote: CrapsForever

Would you tip a dealer crew when several players (Plural) were blatantly cheated right in front of you?

That "tip" is more along the lines of "Gaming still has a person on-site 24/7 in PA, right? You might want to pull your heads out of your asses..." :-)

As I mentioned in other threads, in NJ and perhaps elsewhere, the ony way to tip the dealer at a craps table is to place a $1 bet on 6 and 8. Correct payout would be $1.17, but is normally rounded down. For whatever reason, in NJ, they round it up for dealer bets, all the way to $2!

Otherwise, at craps, I'll make a $1 pass, usually with $2 odds.

At other games, I'll put $1 on the edge of the betting circle.

No matter what I do, I'll piggyback / player control it.

And I NEVER tip via side bets.

I prefer to tip...straight hand in...before I start shooting the dice or bet $1 Big Red/$1 Horn on the comeout roll (Puck Off) when I am shooting. Dealers love the latter because they usually get paid.

I HATE Dealers who beg for tips; especially when they see I'm just making a new permanent pathway in the ground from the Craps Table to the ATM Machine....I digress...

Quote: rdw4potus

I guess it depends on whether you're tipping because you'd like to receive good service, or because you feel that you just received good service. Tipping at the end of the session would follow the established convention for restaurant service, taxi cabs, and hotel housekeepers.

All that is so, but it's amazing what a single dollar bet does. At the Four Queens in particualr the crew was very attentive to my bets, moving the 6 or 8 place bet when either was the point, and placing a red chip on the come after paying off a come bet (They did as at first whether I wanted to "keep'em coming," or words to that effect).

I'm not telling you to change your tipping ways, but you may want to consider it.

I always* root for the players to win, but it's always nice to get a player that understands I'm in a service industry and rely on tips. Therefore it brightens my work day when a player tips early on, and it does get what little favor I can offer. I always make sure to thank the player for placing the bet for me and win or lose I thank them again at the end of the hand.

As mentioned, if I'm asked if I want to just have it or play it, I have to just take it, but I don't mind at all when the player wants to play it for me, especially if they've been winning at a lot. I know it falls into the realm of myth/superstition but it seems like players actually do better with their splits and double downs if they match any dealer bet they placed on the original hand (hint, hint...). :)

* I should qualify this by saying that I actively hope they'll lose/go away when they're being a douche bag and making the game unfun for the other players. I don't care what they say to me, but when they make it hard for others to enjoy their leisure time, it annoys me.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

As mentioned, if I'm asked if I want to just have it or play it, I have to just take it...

You have to just take it?

Really? I thought the standard reply when asked is "It's your decision" as if to say that you're not allowed to influence the toke to be a bet or not.

For the record, I thought casinos prefer the tokes to be bets rather than direct hand-ins, because the house has an edge over that bet too....

By the way, what casino was this again?

I guess I'm a "good George" after reading this thread so far. Playing BJ I will always add a min. stakes "dealer plays" hand every 15 minutes or so unless I'm deep in the hole for that round. I play the dealer's hand with basic strategy--if there's a good reason for a double or a split I'll do it. I'll give the dealer a small toke if he leaves the table (end of shift or break). If I hit a stop-loss and leave the table I'll give a small thank-you toke on my way out. I find I'm noticed and treated well this way.

csb: A couple years ago during a slow midweek afternoon at Wynn I toked with a "dealer plays" hand and it was dealt a pair of 8's. I split 'em. One of the 8's was hit with a 3...so I double'd up. Play continued and the dealer's own hand busted so her toke hand was pretty sweet. She called the pit boss over to show him. I was treated very well indeed by the pit for the rest of my trip.... /csb

I've noticed that even if a "dealer plays" hand loses the dealer seems to appreciate the gesture.

I also make a few two-way hardway bets when I play and I always try to make one early in the session to get the dealers on my side.

I typically place the tip bet along with the straight bet that I am making, so the dealer is playing along with me. On Pai Gow Poker, I've had a few dealers request that I move the tip to the fortune bonus, which I will gladly do for them. The bonus bet is resolved much more frequently than the main bet, and I suspect the request to move the bet is really an attempt to increase my tipping frequency. But I will only place a new bet when the main bet is resolved.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

As mentioned, if I'm asked if I want to just have it or play it, I have to just take it...

You have to just take it?

Really? I thought the standard reply when asked is "It's your decision" as if to say that you're not allowed to influence the toke to be a bet or not.

For the record, I thought casinos prefer the tokes to be bets rather than direct hand-ins, because the house has an edge over that bet too....

By the way, what casino was this again?

According to our employee manual we're required to just take it if it's offered as a choice between play or take.

My guess would be that if we could ask them to play it for us, we might try to influence the outcome.

As for which casino... I'd rather not say publicly, but it's part of a big nationwide company, not an Indian casino.

Thanks for all the comments. We're coming up with some interesting points of view here.

One thing I told the Wizard, is that dealers tend to make a bigger deal out of a side bet tip than a straight tip. Over the course of the trip I also noted they tended to like a $2 two-way hardway perhaps a little more than a $1 dealer hardway, even though the money bet on them is the same. I also noticed genuine enthusiasm when a higher-roller would bet $5 for himself and $1 for the dealers on a hardway.

This reminds me of one of my Vegas laws, the 15th, which states "16) Bet for the dealers the same kind of bets you place for yourself. Otherwise you make it seem as though you're throwing their tip money away. Exception if the dealer asks politely for a specific bet you don't care to make."

I maintain the exception, but I think the rest is more a kind of bonding going on. That you and the dealer both ahve money riding on the same bet, not on different bets. For isntance, at first I'd bet a $1 dealer hard 8 when the point was 8; but then I could win while the dealers lost. They still thanked me for the bet, but perhaps a tad less warmly than for a $2 two-way hard 8.

Another aspect is that perhaps dealers like the thrill of scoring a bigger tip. Sure, getting $5 straight-up from a player is good, but getting $9 from a $1 hard 8 bet is better. And just liek a player regards a win as "the casino's money," dealers may regard a side bet tip as "the player's money." So in effect they gamble for free. Job satisfaction isn't entirely about money.

Oh, a player tip: don't refer to a side bet as a sucker bet and then make one for the dealer.

No, I didn't do that, but I came close at the Six Card Poker table. So if you regard side bets as sucker bets, which they are (even those I make), keep it to yourself or follo Nareed's 15th Law ;)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

As mentioned, if I'm asked if I want to just have it or play it, I have to just take it...

You have to just take it?

Really? I thought the standard reply when asked is "It's your decision" as if to say that you're not allowed to influence the toke to be a bet or not.

For the record, I thought casinos prefer the tokes to be bets rather than direct hand-ins, because the house has an edge over that bet too....

By the way, what casino was this again?

At my casino the dealers have the same policy, if asked they must take the toke as opposed to saying to play it. I've seen some dealers try to play around it by saying, "well I'm a gambler", though they really aren't supposed to do this and may be spoken to if the floor supervisor is watching the table.

As far as tips in craps I usually put a dollar on the passline next to my bet, and as the Wizard suggests I always back it up with the same odds that I'm putting on my bet. I usually do this once the shooter has made a couple consecutive points and I am winning. At the end of a session if I have an odd amount of money (Say 205 for example) I'll try some long shots for the dealer with that 5 bucks before I color up. If it hits, great, if not I wouldn't have done anything with that red chip anyways.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

According to our employee manual we're required to just take it if it's offered as a choice between play or take.

My guess would be that if we could ask them to play it for us, we might try to influence the outcome.

Oh, that's right. Because if you really had that power, the last thing the casino would want is you cheating to earn a buck tip - which you then have to split with your 900 coworkers.

After all, if you do that a couple times, you might wise up and decide to instead get a partner and REALLY cheat.

Yeah, betting that tips leads to real cheating, the same way that pot smoking leads to heroin abuse. Sigh.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

As for which casino... I'd rather not say publicly, but it's part of a big nationwide company, not an Indian casino.

FYI: It's not that I wanted you to name names per se, but so that maybe we can visit you while you're working.

But if you don't wanna name names, that's OK.

Can I assume that it's the company where they make a big deal about not using an apostrophe in the name?

Quote: rainman

Hmmmmm... I wonder which way fleaStiff will vote?

He is probably too cheap to vote, much less tip.

I guess I'll take on the Jerry Logan role. I rarely tip anymore. I used to tip -- a bunch. Pass line bets, odds, hardways, you name it. Sometimes even hand-ins. Watching a tip bet lose and the dealers not even acknowledge it, or a BJ bet just being scooped up and dropped into the toke box like it was a vending machine made me reconsider the whole tipping thing. I just don't get any utility out of it anymore. It does not make me feel generous or increase my happiness. The Wizard may say it is a cost of playing the game, but I refuse to take that stance.

I do still tip, but only in certain situations. I will hand-in at the end of a losing craps session because I hate players who only tip when they win, and I try to offset that. I notice it makes a lot more of an impact. I will also tip if I am at a small joint (like Poker Palace) and I notice no one else is tipping -- again, more of an impact. At the Wynn or Aria, my tip is but a drop in the bucket shared among 900 dealers. So there is my "selective tipping" method. Hate me if you will.

Quote: CrapsForever

Would you tip a dealer crew when several players (Plural) were blatantly cheated right in front of you?

Why would anyone continue to play at such a crooked table?

Quote: SanchoPanza

Why would anyone continue to play at such a crooked table?

HUGE MISTAKE ON MY PART!

I repeated each of my bets verbally multiple times to the dealers the rest of the night and there were not any mistakes made on my bets. However, now that I have had time to fully digest the mistakes/cheating that occurred in 2 consecutive sessions @ Bethlehem Sands; I will not return there. I'll just have to drive up to Mohegan Sun/ Foxwoods the next time I visit the Northeast.

Are there any other casinos within 2 hours of NYC that anyone suggests? Not a fan of Atlantic City!

Quote: CrapsForever

Are there any other casinos within 2 hours of NYC that anyone suggests? Not a fan of Atlantic City!

I don't dislike Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs or Mount Airy. Both are in northeastern PA. You could do worse than Turning Stone near Syracuse, NY as well. But if I were starting from a base in NYC, I'd either just play electronic games at Resorts World in Queens or I'd drive to Connecticut...

Parx is about 90 minutes from NYC,
The most table games of any casino in PA.
Limits are usually sort of high though.
Their site has a nice feature where you can check what's available...
Parx game report

Craps. When I'm shooting, I make a pass line bet for the crew alongside my own pass line bet. Occasionally, whether I'm shooting or not, I make a hard 10 bet for $5, the only center section bet I make. If it hits, $5 press on the hard 10, $5 for the crew, and $25 for me. If it hits again, $10 press on the hard 10, $10 for the crew, and $50 for me. This progression continues (although, usually not for long).

Pai Gow Poker. I make a $1 bet for the dealer along with my main bet. I don't normally play the fortune bonus. But if I do, it's only for $1. Any smaller winnings from that become a $1 bet for the dealer along side my bonus bet, hoping for a repeat. Sometimes, when I make the $1 bet along with my main bet, the dealer will want to push it to the fortune bonus. I let them know that if it loses, it doesn't get replaced. I figure it's up to them.

Blackjack. At the start of every hour, I get five $1 chips. $1 gets placed on top of my existing bet. In other words, my $10 bet becomes an $11 bet. Whatever the $1 bet wins, usually $1, is the dealers. Some dealers will want to play that on the next hand, again, that's up to them. When I'm on a winning streak, this works out well for them. My $1 bet (on top of my chips) wins. That $1 goes in front of my chips. I win again, thus they win $2, and then the $1 (from the $1 that was still on top of my chips) goes to the front again. Repeat ad infinitum. Sometimes dealers will win quite a bit of money, and I only ever risked a couple bucks. However, usually the dealer ends up getting around $5 from me.

Someone else mentioned being upset with dealers who don't even acknowledge the tips. This would upset me as well. I've never encountered this, however. All the dealers have been gracious, thanked me for the tip, whether they won or not. It always occurred to me that it was in the dealer's best interest to acknowledge all tips, as to hope to encourage the other players to tip as well. I do sometimes feel a bit awkward when a high roller sits at the table. There's nothing like someone betting $100 a hand at blackjack, tipping $5 a hand to the dealer, and I'm only tipping $1. I feel pretty mild, like the dealer doesn't even care about my tip at this point, but I've never had a dealer make me feel this way, they are always very gracious and thankful of any amount. It's just my own internal insecurities that make me feel bad.

Quote: WongBo

Parx is about 90 minutes from NYC,
The most table games of any casino in PA.
Limits are usually sort of high though.
Their site has a nice feature where you can check what's available...
Parx game report

Thx! I'll check Parx out next time I decide to venture into PA.

Quote: WongBo

It is pointless to tip at the end of a session,

Interesting concept. Every other place I tip in Vegas, I do so after I receive the service. I guess it depends a lot on what you are thinking the tip is. 99% of the time I'm tipping at tables it is due to dealers being nice. I have NEVER tipped on the first few hands unless I had played with that dealer earlier.

I don't feel like paying for good service. To me that is expected. If I am at a table with a cold dealer, I will generally not stay longer than 15 minutes and even then the cards need to be good.


As for the Poll....

BJ - Always on the main hand bet, as I don't play side bets.
Paigow - Always on the side bet
Craps - 50/50 between Pass/Place6,8 or $1 hardways

I'm not a big fan of the tipping threads on here, since they inevitably get to a debate that ends with everybody shouting at each other (somewhat of an exaggeration, but only a little).

That being said, everybody keeps saying that they only tip on the main BJ hand and not the side bets. I find this true for myself EXCEPT when the dealer keeps hounding me about making the side bets. If the service is good otherwise, I will tell them that I will put $1 up for them on the sidebet. It usually doesn't hit, though on Spanish 21 it seems to hit more when I do it that way. I had a perfect match one time, and the dealer got 12 for it.

In any case, I always ask if the dealer makes that bet, and if they gamble and do, then I will ALWAYS play it for them.

Quote: Doc

Not quite, unless perhaps you mean the odds of getting the dealers on your side.

The hard 6 and 8 are paid as if you lose on nine of ten resolutions, rather than the real ten of eleven, giving HE = 1/11 = 9.09%.

The hard 4 and 10 are paid as if you lose on seven of eight resolutions, rather than the real eight of nine, giving HE = 1/9 = 11.11%.

I meant the odds of the dice coming up 4-4 are the same as for coming up 5-5.

But of course a hard 8 bet loses to more dice combinations than a hard 10 bet. I had not considered that.

Does stuff like Aces Up and Pairs Plus count as side bets? I've made a couple dealer bets for those before. 90% of the time, I just give a straight tip, no matter which game it is.

Quote: FourFiveFace

Does stuff like Aces Up and Pairs Plus count as side bets?

Yes. Anything otther than the main bet is a side bet by definition. Even if, like Pair+, you can make it without making the main bet.