billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 19th, 2018 at 12:02:10 PM permalink
There is an often told tale of a BJ AP taking a tribe for a couple of thousand only to find his car towed away, fresh blue lines drawn around the parking spot and a handicap parking sign installed. Anyone want to guess what the fine for parking in the spot was?
I first heard it on a forum, but then later read it in a book. Only thing was in both cases, it was a first person story.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
nonentity
nonentity
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November 19th, 2021 at 5:22:49 AM permalink
I think you are incorrect on this point, man. When they issue someone that card, they input a scan of that personís ID into database. Itís got your ID attached to it. So in a way, it is an ID substitute. Thatís why if you sit at a table, they more often than not, accept your players card in place of your ID. When in the casino, you need one or the other or they wonít let you play a table game at all. It is exactly like stealing an identity of another person. Letís compare it to obtaining a CVS rewards card, which does not require your ID to be presented in order to be issued. You can literally have a CVS rewards card bearing the name of Angelina Jolie if you so wish. The only problem you might have is getting a prescription in your name. If they scan your CVS card and the real Angelina Jolie had picked up a bunch of OXI pills in her last refill two days ago and here you are with the prescription for OXI, they could refuse you your meds or worse put you on a suspected drug-dealer list to have police interview you. Similarly, it is illegal to use another personís debit card even with their pin, and that personís full consent. Even when itís your spouse or your parent/child, if you get caught withdrawing funds and the card does not match your ID, youíre screwed. Back in the day cards often got trapped inside ATM and in order to get it out, you needed to go into the bank and ask them to give it back to you. Can you imagine the horror if the card it turned out wasnít yours?

So, back to casino cards and why it may not work out as you hope. Letís say you have a winning strategy and you are looking to only profit about $1,000 at a table game while risking about $3,000 of your own money. Itís a one-time win and leave situation. 10 minutes play at most. Once you win, they will start looking for any excuse to not pay out. If your eyes look different than the eyes of the player the card was given to, you may not get paid your table win.

Additionally, every win and loss goes into the card activity history. When filing taxes you will be asked to verify with a statement from the casino how much you earned. Letís say your friend who gives you his players card is not a gambler but you won a $1,000 at a table using his card. Now heís got to pay taxes on that $1,000 that he didnít even really earn, because you were the one who earned it. Depending on his current income level, that $1,000 might put him over a threshold where his tax bracket gets higher for the year. He may no longer be eligible for section 8 housing, or food stamps. In truth you are screwing him even if you donít use his comps. Not a very ďfriendĒ thing to do.
Casino rules is one thing but breaking tax laws is a far more serious crime. And I promise you, if you win, your friend will be pissed about paying more taxes. If you manage to get away with it, at what cost? Is it worth it? Again nevermind even using their comps. Iíve been tempted to pick up a few abandoned cards so I can sneak in to play incognito (under another personís name) and run right after I win tossing the card in the trash right after I used it. Because letís face it, they all already have a file on me in their system and they all know my strategy. I canít fool anyone that Iím a novice or donít know what Iím doing. The strategy I have will only work for a dumb tourist they rarely encountered in the past. But as much as I want to try it, I know I will get caught as being not the person on the card and that will get me locked up.
Walking into a casino with multiple peopleís cards is what actually the issue was for the OPís friend. Casinos scan everything in your pockets for personal info. You can not be multiple people obviously so that was the signal for them to come grab the guy. Best way to avoid it is to only walk in with a single playerís card, leave your driverís licence/ids, Costco club card, CVS card and all and any cards that bear your or someone elseís name on them, and your cell phone at home or in the motel room. Take a taxi to and from the casino, bring cash. But even then, if you donít visually match the friend whoís card you borrowed, you will be spotted and tossed out like a used rag without your winnings. Again, donít even attempt to get other peopleís comps. That WILL 100% get you in trouble.
nonentity
nonentity
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November 19th, 2021 at 5:40:22 AM permalink
Try going into Costco with someone elseís club cards and see if you can buy anythingÖspoiler:you canít. Their club discount is only for members of their club. You probably wonít be arrested but you will be prevented from taking advantage of their low priced merch.
nonentity
nonentity
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November 19th, 2021 at 5:54:00 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz



Too bad. They can go play a violin. But they CANNOT pursue any legal ramifications under the law



That statement is 100% WRONG. They can definitely pursue legal ramifications although they most likely will not be successful.
link to original post



Depends. Did the person win or lose while using the card? If they lost, it might fly. If they won, they will get in trouble. They just ran up someone elseís tax bill with their winnings. Now that person the card belongs to canít say ďI didnít make $5,000 at a casinoĒ that year to the IRS. They will expect their cut of that money regardless.

Just imagine getting a bill from a hospital for $30,000 that you never went to. It turns out another person used your SSN to get a surgery. You may or may not know who it was. But your SSN being on the bill now means you are on the hook to pay this bill which you never racked up. The benefit of the surgery went to another person, but you are stuck with the bill.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
HunterhillRogerKint
November 19th, 2021 at 5:59:26 AM permalink
Imagine making a new account just to speak authoritatively about this subject with irrelevant analogies.

Lol at the IRS will want copies of your win-loss record from the casino to verify part. They donít accept those as proof because theyíre notoriously inaccurate, they want you to keep your own records.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
Hunterhill
November 19th, 2021 at 6:38:17 AM permalink
Quote: nonentity

I think you are incorrect on this point, man. When they issue someone that card, they input a scan of that personís ID into database. Itís got your ID attached to it. So in a way, it is an ID substitute. Thatís why if you sit at a table, they more often than not, accept your players card in place of your ID. When in the casino, you need one or the other or they wonít let you play a table game at all. It is exactly like stealing an identity of another person. Letís compare it to obtaining a CVS rewards card, which does not require your ID to be presented in order to be issued. You can literally have a CVS rewards card bearing the name of Angelina Jolie if you so wish. The only problem you might have is getting a prescription in your name. If they scan your CVS card and the real Angelina Jolie had picked up a bunch of OXI pills in her last refill two days ago and here you are with the prescription for OXI, they could refuse you your meds or worse put you on a suspected drug-dealer list to have police interview you. Similarly, it is illegal to use another personís debit card even with their pin, and that personís full consent. Even when itís your spouse or your parent/child, if you get caught withdrawing funds and the card does not match your ID, youíre screwed. Back in the day cards often got trapped inside ATM and in order to get it out, you needed to go into the bank and ask them to give it back to you. Can you imagine the horror if the card it turned out wasnít yours?



You're correct about the ID scan, at least, usually.

I think absolutely needing to present an ID or Players Card to play Table Games is an exception, rather than the rule. In fact, I can't think of a time someone was made to show one or the other.

The CVS comparison is bizarre and totally irrelevant to anything.

Another person's Debit Card goes to banking information and the conduct of banks has a whole bevy of regulations. Secondly, most casino's players club materials that I have perused say something to the effect that, "Free Play has no cash value," so you can't steal something that they declare valueless in the first place. I have heard, secondhand, about someone being arrested for using another card...but I haven't heard back on how that went, if they were charged with anything or what they were charged with. Last time I heard about an arrest along those lines, it turned out that they were also using a Fake ID for that person, which does get into impersonation.

Quote:

So, back to casino cards and why it may not work out as you hope. Letís say you have a winning strategy and you are looking to only profit about $1,000 at a table game while risking about $3,000 of your own money. Itís a one-time win and leave situation. 10 minutes play at most. Once you win, they will start looking for any excuse to not pay out. If your eyes look different than the eyes of the player the card was given to, you may not get paid your table win.



Is this common? What casinos are you visiting? Why would they refuse to pay $1,000 in winnings? I've never heard of this. Beyond that, it gets back to the point that, in general, I don't think casinos force either Players Card or ID to play Table Games.

Quote:

Additionally, every win and loss goes into the card activity history. When filing taxes you will be asked to verify with a statement from the casino how much you earned. Letís say your friend who gives you his players card is not a gambler but you won a $1,000 at a table using his card. Now heís got to pay taxes on that $1,000 that he didnít even really earn, because you were the one who earned it. Depending on his current income level, that $1,000 might put him over a threshold where his tax bracket gets higher for the year. He may no longer be eligible for section 8 housing, or food stamps. In truth you are screwing him even if you donít use his comps. Not a very ďfriendĒ thing to do.



As has been stated, these win/loss reports are notoriously inaccurate in the first place and are probably even worse for Table Games than they are machines. And, on Table Games?. No. The only way anything could have potential tax ramifications is if a W2G was hit, then the person might have a problem, but that would also require the casino itself to be unscrupulous. In the event of anything taxable, the casino should require physical ID and process the W2G in the name on the ID regardless of what the players club card in the machine says.

Quote:

Casino rules is one thing but breaking tax laws is a far more serious crime. And I promise you, if you win, your friend will be pissed about paying more taxes. If you manage to get away with it, at what cost? Is it worth it? Again nevermind even using their comps. Iíve been tempted to pick up a few abandoned cards so I can sneak in to play incognito (under another personís name) and run right after I win tossing the card in the trash right after I used it. Because letís face it, they all already have a file on me in their system and they all know my strategy. I canít fool anyone that Iím a novice or donít know what Iím doing. The strategy I have will only work for a dumb tourist they rarely encountered in the past. But as much as I want to try it, I know I will get caught as being not the person on the card and that will get me locked up.
Walking into a casino with multiple peopleís cards is what actually the issue was for the OPís friend. Casinos scan everything in your pockets for personal info. You can not be multiple people obviously so that was the signal for them to come grab the guy. Best way to avoid it is to only walk in with a single playerís card, leave your driverís licence/ids, Costco club card, CVS card and all and any cards that bear your or someone elseís name on them, and your cell phone at home or in the motel room. Take a taxi to and from the casino, bring cash. But even then, if you donít visually match the friend whoís card you borrowed, you will be spotted and tossed out like a used rag without your winnings. Again, donít even attempt to get other peopleís comps. That WILL 100% get you in trouble.
link to original post



They, "Scan everything in your pockets for personal info?" Dude, their facial recognition still mostly sucks. You really think they can read through your pants and wallet what the cards in your pocket say?

I honestly can't believe you took the time to type all of that what with 80-90% of it being either flatly wrong or not always true.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 19th, 2021 at 7:15:25 AM permalink
This is a gambling forum, although I can understand how someone might mistake it for a creative writing-oriented one.
Thanks for joining. You will do well here.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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November 19th, 2021 at 7:35:34 AM permalink
As Mission says 90% of what he said is untrue and I speak from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, not second hand accounts.

I have PERSONALLY been detained with as many as 28 players cards in my possession, handed them over, had police called, had police ask if I had permission to use the cards and to prove it, I handed over all the phone numbers.

The officers then called most everyone, asked them to verify their birthdays (which they had in front of them supplied by the casino) and then asked if I had their permission to use the cards

Of course everyone said yes and the police told the casino they could do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Of course, the casino was free to issue me a trespassing ban for the future. That's it.

That's not "I guess" or "imagine this". This is real life, spoken by me who actually has had this happen.

To be clear, it's happened to me in the following states (getting caught with cards not necessarily police intervention)

NY (no police, no charges, lawsuit filed[I posted about the lawsuit elsewhere and while I didn't prevail for unlawful detainment the defendant attorneys stressed on the record that what I did was not criminal)

NJ (DEG officer called in, refused to issue anything, except trespassing violation which casino had incorrect (long story) and even that was thrown out.

Pennsylvania (state troopers called in (this is where they phoned nearly every cardholder while I was being backroomed by the officers themselves) I was released and asked to phone them a week later (some cardholders hadn't answered the phone). One week later state trooper in charge said he was closing the case.

Mississippi (no police called. One JACKPOT on another person card WHILE using their Freeplay. Took an hour to get paid and a bunch of questions. BUT was finally paid (not banned but all my cards killed at that casino for comps the next day).

From FIRST-HAND experience I can guarantee you that what that new poster said is bunk.

Also, because it's part and parcel of my business I am aware of state laws involving use of another person players card and pretty much they are always lumped in with credit cards. They are almost always the same laws!!!!

They are usually called "Access Device Laws" and state it is illegal to use them (any device that gives you temporary access to a company like credit cards or comps cards etc) WITHOUT the permission of THE CARD HOLDER but is legal if used with the card holders permission.

Finally just to squash this notion about the IRS bill for playing on another person card. Unless you win over ten gees, casinos do not ask for social security information so they aren't sending anything to the IRS for 90% (don't hold me to the percentage just off the cuff from experience) of players.

And imagine if you ACCIDENTALLY left your card in the machine and the next player did have a good run. You really think you are getting the tax bill for that accident?

Seriously, LMAO!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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November 19th, 2021 at 7:38:23 AM permalink
Just to be clear, my statements related to arrests were secondhand. I have also been 86íed for having other cards on me.

ADDED: My experience with this in PA was similar to that of DarkOz, except they were able to get ahold of people while I was there. Actually, they didnít even try to call the players card people, but made one phone call to someone who I shared a checking account with because the debit card associated with that account was in the other personís name.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
darkoz
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November 19th, 2021 at 7:41:44 AM permalink
Using another person players card WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission is about the same as driving another person's car WITH permission versus WITHOUT permission.

If you can't grasp why, it beats me
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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