Poll

5 votes (15.15%)
2 votes (6.06%)
18 votes (54.54%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.03%)
4 votes (12.12%)
6 votes (18.18%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (6.06%)
1 vote (3.03%)

33 members have voted

GWAE
GWAE
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July 17th, 2017 at 7:32:51 AM permalink
Mission, I agree with almost all of your tipping points but I have a question. Do you think the current tipping system is the best way?

I like you tip well. It makes me angry to do it but the system is what it is and I will just follow. I am in favor of a pay for a table type system, or pay by the hour. You go to a restaurant and want a 4 person table, ok that costs $10 per hour. You have 4 but want an 8 top, ok no problem $20 per hour. Thst way if I want to order surf and turf then I could, or just wanted a sandwhich I could do that do. There are many times that I have not ordered a beer, dessert, or higher end food because I am not adding 20% to those already higher prices. If my cost of table was already set then there are times that I would certainly have ordered a beer.
DRich
DRich
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July 17th, 2017 at 7:35:36 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


So, my answer is I'm not going to eat at a place unless I am prepared to tip at least 30% of the total bill, so generally, I wouldn't eat at that place. I could say, "Who needs to tip them well," if they make six figures, but if everyone stopped tipping them well, then they wouldn't make six figures. I guess I kind of wonder what their base hourly amount is.



Thank you for your detailed post. A lot of your earlier posts seemed to imply you justify large tips because the employees need living type wages. I am just trying to understand if smaller tips are justified if someone would still be making middle class wages with the smaller tip percentage. In my example of the servers making $100k if the average person cut their tip from 18% to 10% the servers are still making near $65k per year in Las Vegas which would be considered an upper middle class income.
777
777
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July 17th, 2017 at 7:46:47 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Hate to admit it after all i said about not tipping, but i just left a restaurant and i just couldnt be a stiff. I felt bad for the waiter, since i know thats what he relies on and ended up leaving about 18%. My point still remains though. These owners of these restaurants and casinos need to pay their workers, it should not be our responsibility and there would be no need to raise prices just cause youre paying ur workers 10 an hour. Its not like were even getting a great deal to begin with with the current tip system in place. Every restuarant overprices their steak etc.

All in all, me being a good person, i had to leave something. I guess i couldnt walk the walk, or whatever that phrase is, but something still needs to be done with this tipping system in this country. Ill still never tip a casino dealer though and it's nothing personal to them, but tipping at casino games is just ridiculous.



It hurts me very much when typical CEO and upper management's salaries are many hundred or thousand folds higher than salaries of their employees. If employers can pay their CEO, Zcore13, and other upper management undeserved, ridiculous and stratospheric high salaries, then it must also have MORAL responsibility to take care of their other employees in the bottom of the food chain.

You stand up to your principle, which is admirable, and your show of compassion on your fellow citizens is much appreciated. IMO, our current tipped base compensation system encourages labor abuse practices by employers and theirs managements, and it must be changed for the better.
Last edited by: 777 on Jul 17, 2017
777
777
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July 17th, 2017 at 7:51:54 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I disagree with the fact that upping minimum wages make games go stinky and agree with ZK (he was right). Collusion and competition are much more likely to affect game conditions. Collusion on the strip to introduce 6-5 BJ, reducing odds on Craps, making the field double/double, 00 roulette, 1-3-6 3-card pay tables all have been rule reductions over the last years which is more about profiteering than wages.



Unlike other necessity things in life such as food, clothing, gas; gambling has an addictive element, and it is also a “luxurious thing” in life. People don’t usually compare shop “house edge” because of its addictive and luxurious nature. And also while on gambling adventure during vacation, consumers normally don’t want to burn any of their precious vacation time to compare shop for better “house edge.” Furthermore, vast majority of recreational gambling tourists are not well-versed house edge, EV. Considering addictive and time factors imposed on the consumers, and their careless attitude about spending on abstractly “luxurious” fun time, their lack of knowledge about house edge, it is easier for gambling establishment to price gouge the consumers.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:00:01 AM permalink
Quote: 777

IMO, our current tipped base compensation system encourages labor abuse practices by employers and theirs managements, and it must be changed for the better.



You're going to see labor abuse if tipping is eliminated, they'll all make MW and not a penny more, then. Probably be expected to help clean the kitchen and bathrooms after the restaurant closes, too.
Vultures can't be choosers.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:10:13 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

In my lengthy post, keeping the same server hours and going from just $4.95/hour to $8.25 an hour increased server expenses by $40,000 annually based on ONLY 34 TOTAL server hours per week. If you bump it up to $10/hour, then server wage expenses go up to almost $60,000/year based on 34 hours per week.



I think that in some states, you can pay below minimum wage and consider tip income as part of minimum wage and have to bump up their salary to minimum wage if their tips don't make it there on its own.

Quote: FLSA Fact Sheet 15

Tip Credit: Section 3(m) of the FLSA permits an employer to take a tip credit toward its minimum wage obligation for tipped employees equal to the difference between the required cash wage (which must be at least $2.13) and the federal minimum wage. Thus, the maximum tip credit that an employer can
currently claim under the FLSA section 3(m) is $5.12 per hour (the minimum wage of $7.25 minus the minimum required cash wage of $2.13).



I am confused as to your math. $3.20/hour x 34 hours/week x 52 weeks a year is 5,657.70 per employee.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
777
777
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:12:12 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You're going to see labor abuse if tipping is eliminated, they'll all make MW and not a penny more, then. Probably be expected to help clean the kitchen and bathrooms after the restaurant closes, too.



I don't think it will be the case, because we are not China or other countries where "slave" labor is the norm.

Their is nothing wrong with profiting, but it comes with a social responsibility. Your statement implies that employers are greedy have no moral/social responsibility, and it certainly gives ZK the ammunition to demand change to the tipped compensation system.
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:15:02 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Mission, I agree with almost all of your tipping points but I have a question. Do you think the current tipping system is the best way?

I like you tip well. It makes me angry to do it but the system is what it is and I will just follow. I am in favor of a pay for a table type system, or pay by the hour. You go to a restaurant and want a 4 person table, ok that costs $10 per hour. You have 4 but want an 8 top, ok no problem $20 per hour. Thst way if I want to order surf and turf then I could, or just wanted a sandwhich I could do that do. There are many times that I have not ordered a beer, dessert, or higher end food because I am not adding 20% to those already higher prices. If my cost of table was already set then there are times that I would certainly have ordered a beer.



I have no idea what the best way is. I don't think it's better than they don't get tips and all of the money comes from the restaurant on direct, because then prices would have to go up. Again, that saves me money, but why is an Applebee's or something like that going to be a penny over MW, or as close as they can get, depending on the labor market.

I like to think that your mean average individual person is going to be more generous than a corporation. How can we expect corporations to give and pay if we are not willing to give and pay people ourselves individually? What some (not all) people really want is a justification not to have to tip anymore.

I don't like the system of paying for a table because, just like with pizza delivery charges, the server is not going to see all of that money. They'll end up seeing MW, or something close to that. Also, most tables are for four...but what if I'm by myself? I don't want to be locked into a $10 fee, that's going to be over 50% regardless of service!

That's the other thing, it's also not going to guarantee or encourage any great level of service. The table fee is paid either way. I can't speak for your super expensive restaurants, but for low-midlow-middle end restaurants, I really think you can't beat the tipping system. I mean, I tipped $0.01 once in my life...I had to look around the entire place for my waitress (we were the only table) and she was in the bar (separate room) on some guy's lap. I had gotten so frustrated (before I thought to look in the bar) because we had been done eating for a half hour, that I went and asked the cook if there was any way he could write up a check for me to pay.
Vultures can't be choosers.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:17:48 AM permalink
I think it makes sense to up minimum wages and remove a portion of the tipped compensation system to where a restaurant tipper can feel comfortable tipping 0 - 10% and the server is compensated. I never tip over 20% and almost never tip under 10%. Quite honestly, in many restaurants, I'll call ahead and do take out instead of sit-down because (a) I don't want to wait for my food (b) I don't want to tip.

As for ZK's view of tipping dealer's I am okay with that. As an AP who is completely relying on math to get him through he needs every penny.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Mission146
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Mission146
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July 17th, 2017 at 8:21:27 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I think that in some states, you can pay below minimum wage and consider tip income as part of minimum wage and have to bump up their salary to minimum wage if their tips don't make it there on its own.



I am confused as to your math. $3.20/hour x 34 hours/week x 52 weeks a year is 5,657.70 per employee.



That's the case with Illinois, it's $4.95 tipped wages minimum, $8.25 regular minimum, and then you have to do that if the tips don't get them there. My point is, without tips, they would usually just pay the $8.25.

My 34 hours was based on daily hours for the entire place, not what one employee makes per week.

$8.25 - $4.95 = $3.30 * 34 * 365 = $40,953
Vultures can't be choosers.

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