andysif
andysif
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 433
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
July 20th, 2014 at 10:05:45 PM permalink
Quote: ChowSoy

Hey a non-bigotted view, thanks, betting against their occurance is one of a few options. I wouldn't personally be considering patterns of 10 however, too difficult to manage (Bernoulli).


Unfortunately "betting against their occurrence" still falls within the category of PROBABILITY.
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
  • Threads: 116
  • Posts: 983
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
July 20th, 2014 at 10:12:25 PM permalink
This is just beyond- I had a friend that worked on Wall Street and would only play baccarat after a streak of four or more - he was brilliant in everything else and swore this worked it was in positive side if variance for about two years running then he got shitcanned and lost it all
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
ottogtr
ottogtr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 37
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
July 21st, 2014 at 3:00:50 PM permalink
this past weekend i flow to sacramento ca to visit an old friend of mine. it was an unexpected visit from me. he already had plan to go to a 100k baccarat tournament that was taking place that saturday. since the tournament is at 1p i told we can have an early lunch before his session starts. he agreed and met up the next day at the chinese restaurant. we ate lunch, catch up on time, and headed to the high limit room when the tournament was located. there were many people there but hardly anyone was playing. just waiting around for the tournament to start. my friend found his table, i wished him good luck, and i begin to start a new shoe across the room. the shoe turned out to be great if i only have played my old way. 47 banks, 25 players, 9 ties. i would have won a min. of 15 units but with the system i was surprisingly won a bit more than 6 units. after 4 hours and 3 shoes later i managed to come out ahead with 8 or so units. my friend did fairly well winning about $1000 but lost at the baccarat tournament. we ate dinner and went on home.
during the flight back home thought about the system and i believe it will work. i spoke with my friend today and he told me he will have the contact ready for me to sign later this week.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
July 21st, 2014 at 3:11:40 PM permalink
Good luck to you, then, otto, and I hope it does work for you. Do let us know sometime.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
mustangsally
mustangsally
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 2463
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
July 21st, 2014 at 4:38:56 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

during the flight back home thought about the system and i believe it will work.

humans believe
in all sorts of things that are not truth.

I am one that hopes you lose much of your investment.
it is one of the best ways to learn truth.

"When you believe in things that you don't understand
Then you suffer"

Then is the key word

You should have visited the SoCal Bac tables at Morongo
The best in the West

I still like your Craps place 6 and 8 betting system
I look for my data and add to your first thread
It is a big time fun winner in my opinion

Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
NokTang
NokTang
  • Threads: 56
  • Posts: 1314
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
July 21st, 2014 at 4:54:35 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

i spoke with my friend today and he told me he will have the contact ready for me to sign later this week.



The oldest trick in the books. There could be no legally binding contract for such antics. It's a game to lure in the unknowing. If you trust him with the money, fine and good for you. The idea he's going to give you a written contract should be viewed as a warning sign, not an indication of legitimacy of the arrangement.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
  • Threads: 24
  • Posts: 1226
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
July 21st, 2014 at 4:58:00 PM permalink
What's the contract for anyway? To allow you to use the system?
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
ottogtr
ottogtr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 37
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 5:35:58 PM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

What's the contract for anyway? To allow you to use the system?

no the contract is not for me to use the system.
the term is for one year. there will not be more partners and no extra funds will be added until the end of the one year term.
min. 50k
he keeps 5% of the profit
10% early cancellation fee
miscellaneous items will belong to him (i.e comp,free play/match play, drawings)
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 22nd, 2014 at 5:47:48 PM permalink
So, he gambles with your money, and keeps 5% of the profit (if any) and all the comps.

Oldest scam in the book -- he is freerolling you. You take 100% of the losses and only 95% of the wins, minus comps.

There's a sucker born every minute. Sometimes I wish I was dishonest enough to take advantage of people like this.
ottogtr
ottogtr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 37
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 6:26:18 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

So, he gambles with your money, and keeps 5% of the profit (if any) and all the comps.

Oldest scam in the book -- he is freerolling you. You take 100% of the losses and only 95% of the wins, minus comps.

There's a sucker born every minute. Sometimes I wish I was dishonest enough to take advantage of people like this.

ill take the risk. he is also investing 50k of his own money to the baccarat system. every two weeks he will provide all the probable paper work to all the investors so we can do our own audits.

btw... waiting on one more investor to finish talking to her husband. possible time for this to start is this september 1st.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 22nd, 2014 at 6:31:10 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

ill take the risk. he is also investing 50k of his own money to the baccarat system. every two weeks he will provide all the probable paper work to all the investors so we can do our own audits.

btw... waiting on one more investor to finish talking to her husband. possible time for this to start is this september 1st.



Hmmm, interesting math question. How many suckers/investors does he need in order to make this +EV? Of course it depends on his quitting points (not to mention the value of the comps)
andysif
andysif
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 433
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 6:49:47 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

ill take the risk. he is also investing 50k of his own money to the baccarat system. every two weeks he will provide all the probable paper work to all the investors so we can do our own audits.

btw... waiting on one more investor to finish talking to her husband. possible time for this to start is this september 1st.


what kind of "paper work" are you (or him) talking about?
Is he going to meticulously mark down every hand played, ie bet size, result? including suit and rank of cards drawn?

and if he is recruiting you because he wants to bet a larger amount than he has, then why is he only taking you, and not any more partners? sounds contradictory.
andysif
andysif
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 433
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 6:50:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Hmmm, interesting math question. How many suckers/investors does he need in order to make this +EV? Of course it depends on his quitting points (not to mention the value of the comps)


it's not difficult. just 1.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2263
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
July 22nd, 2014 at 7:07:11 PM permalink
Does anyone else have trouble telling these apart? After seeing about the 3rd or 4th one, I started having trouble remembering which pigeon, er, casino game investment system customer it is. Do you suppose the system hawkers have some of the same kind of trouble?
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
ottogtr
ottogtr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 37
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 7:22:11 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

what kind of "paper work" are you (or him) talking about?
Is he going to meticulously mark down every hand played, ie bet size, result? including suit and rank of cards drawn?

and if he is recruiting you because he wants to bet a larger amount than he has, then why is he only taking you, and not any more partners? sounds contradictory.

its going be like a real business. yes he will mark down every hands for every hands he going to play. with the all the bets being a flat one unit bet i can compare the results and the bankroll to see if its balance. no need for cards rank of the cards just which side wins. i know someone will ask what if he change one of the outcome to skim of the top of the bankroll. my answer is...in any business when you are a silent partner and dont have proof that person is stealing then all you can do is just take it. he have trust in me for not stealing his system and sell it or use it to profit for myself so i will have trust in him for not skimming from the top.
if you have read most of the comments in this forum i have been saying a group of investors not just he and i. he is seeking a group of 5 investors for it to be profitable for him do this full time. at this time its the two of us and another two other investors. the last person is talking to her husband at this time. it should be good to go because her husband wanted to have the all 4 investors ready to go before he allow her to put in their share.
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
July 22nd, 2014 at 7:29:29 PM permalink
Lol if you actually think he is using his own money.

Safe yourself some grief and don't post about your fake wins in 2 months because no one will believe yyou anyways.

Eta: also no one here believes u have 50k. I don't doubt this is happening but probably with 1k max.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 22nd, 2014 at 7:31:10 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

it's not difficult. just 1.



I don't think that's right, for any reasonable amount of play.
andysif
andysif
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 433
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 7:50:31 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I don't think that's right, for any reasonable amount of play.


that guy is taking 5% cut on the winning.
if you go to this page
https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/
and change the banker's win pay from .95 to 1 or the player's win from 1 to 1.05 you can see that you will come out ahead.
ottogtr
ottogtr
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 37
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:45:02 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Lol if you actually think he is using his own money.

Safe yourself some grief and don't post about your fake wins in 2 months because no one will believe yyou anyways.

Eta: also no one here believes u have 50k. I don't doubt this is happening but probably with 1k max.

this is will be last post do to that fact that even if i post wins or losts when this system begins no one would believe me anyways. some would say that i have to show the actually math for anyone to believe in the system but again i cant. here are two comments from others and this is why i cant...
Quote: soxfan

Cats who can, do, and cats who can't, sell systems, hey hey.


Quote: AxelWolf

Cats who can, show the math and can prove it. Cats who can't, pretend or sell systems.


Quote: ottogtr

Cats who can, hide it. Cats who cant, asked to prove it so they can copyCAT it.

AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22272
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
July 22nd, 2014 at 9:07:51 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

this is will be last post do to that fact that even if i post wins or losts when this system begins no one would believe me anyways. some would say that i have to show the actually math for anyone to believe in the system but again i cant. here are two comments from others and this is why i cant...

There is more than one way to skin a Cat. Your soon to be partner just proved that.


TBH, I don't believe any of this BS. I think its one big trollfest.

Post up the contract and a pic of the 50k and I will then believe that there are some very gullible people even in this day and age.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
July 22nd, 2014 at 10:04:40 PM permalink
Just give me 3% of the wins, you'll do better with my system. Of course I am not responsible for your losses.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
ChowSoy
ChowSoy
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 25
Joined: Jul 18, 2014
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:19:20 PM permalink
Is it a seasonal thing, or maybe Christmas is looming. There just happens to be another "reel them in first" scam in progress on another forum, different angle but there are similarities in the claims; 250,000 shoes, beaten via flat betting. Turns out the perputrator of the other, calling himself James Baccrat Bond also has a few convictions to his name and claims to have not only pointed out a few computational errors to Prof Thorp but also bought his home from him.
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
July 23rd, 2014 at 12:44:34 AM permalink
Btw, I am accepting player tips since my comment got this bs to stop.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
mickeycrimm
mickeycrimm
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 2299
Joined: Jul 13, 2013
July 23rd, 2014 at 1:26:24 AM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

Lemon Drop Kid is alive & well! Long live the Lemon Drop Kid!



No, long live the Mississippi Kid.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
July 23rd, 2014 at 3:29:43 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Btw, I am accepting player tips since my comment got this bs to stop.



Any red for the shooter gwae :)
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
DMSCR
DMSCR
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 774
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 11:46:34 AM permalink
Quote: ChowSoy

Is it a seasonal thing, or maybe Christmas is looming. There just happens to be another "reel them in first" scam in progress on another forum, different angle but there are similarities in the claims; 250,000 shoes, beaten via flat betting. Turns out the perputrator of the other, calling himself James Baccrat Bond also has a few convictions to his name and claims to have not only pointed out a few computational errors to Prof Thorp but also bought his home from him.



EgaliteOnlineStalker and EgaliteStalkTrolling

Your behind the scenes stalk trolling backfired. You got the wrong person. Your Batman detective skills are like your constant ever going LIARs at the baccarat tables. All of this because you don't know how to open an Excel spreadsheet. HA!
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 12:55:21 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

that guy is taking 5% cut on the winning.
if you go to this page
https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/
and change the banker's win pay from .95 to 1 or the player's win from 1 to 1.05 you can see that you will come out ahead.



It's 5% of the net. He does not get a 5% bonus on every winning bet; he gets a 5% bonus of the net win if they are ahead after playing a certain amount of time. In other words, losses are subtracted from wins before the 5% is calculated. As you pay longer, your chances of being ahead approach 0, so the value of that 5% bonus also approaches 0.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 1:00:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Post up the contract and a pic of the 50k and I will then believe that there are some very gullible people even in this day and age.



You mean, you didn't believe that before?

Personally I think that this is one big scam being put on by the guy who claims that he is investing. He comes on to ask if it can be profitable, everyone tells him no, and he invests anyway? That doesn't make sense. If he already had his mind made up, why did he come here to annoy us?

When he posted that they were just waiting on one more investor to be finalized, I expected him to come back a few days later and say that the investor fell through, to see if anyone on this forum would like to take that investor's place. I'm sure that he wouldn't post it publicly since he would be shouted down and probably nuked, but maybe he will PM a few people who he feels are particularly gullible. Hopefully no one is dumb enough to fall for it, but I wouldn't be THAT surprised.
thecesspit
thecesspit
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
July 24th, 2014 at 2:38:43 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Quote: andysif

that guy is taking 5% cut on the winning.
if you go to this page
https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/
and change the banker's win pay from .95 to 1 or the player's win from 1 to 1.05 you can see that you will come out ahead.



It's 5% of the net. He does not get a 5% bonus on every winning bet; he gets a 5% bonus of the net win if they are ahead after playing a certain amount of time. In other words, losses are subtracted from wins before the 5% is calculated. As you pay longer, your chances of being ahead approach 0, so the value of that 5% bonus also approaches 0.



Depends how often he gets to take his cut... after every shoe or session and you could be on to a good thing.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 2:50:06 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Quote: andysif

that guy is taking 5% cut on the winning.
if you go to this page
https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/
and change the banker's win pay from .95 to 1 or the player's win from 1 to 1.05 you can see that you will come out ahead.



It's 5% of the net. He does not get a 5% bonus on every winning bet; he gets a 5% bonus of the net win if they are ahead after playing a certain amount of time. In other words, losses are subtracted from wins before the 5% is calculated. As you pay longer, your chances of being ahead approach 0, so the value of that 5% bonus also approaches 0.



Depends how often he gets to take his cut... after every shoe or session and you could be on to a good thing.



Well, yes, it depends how many bets there are before "breaking the bank" and starting over.

If you do it after every bet then obviously he has a huge edge even with only one "investor".

This is a somewhat interesting problem; it's sort of similar to the loss rebate discussion that was going on earlier. Except, instead of getting extra money when you lose, you get extra money when you win.

Note that with several "investors", the comps alone may make it worth playing, even without this 5% nonsense. Casinos will generally comp you about 1/3 of your expected losses. If you can get the bulk of these comps in promotional chips, free-play, or "show-up money", these are worth real cash. If you are only responsible for 1/9 of the bankroll but you get to keep all the comps, that means that you are getting 3x your losses bank in comps.
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
  • Threads: 116
  • Posts: 983
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 4:03:15 PM permalink
http://i.imgur.com/yDz5Cev.jpg. Please tell me where I can get in
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
Tanko
Tanko
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1195
Joined: Apr 22, 2013
July 24th, 2014 at 5:08:43 PM permalink
Quote: ottogtr

no the contract is not for me to use the system.
the term is for one year. there will not be more partners and no extra funds will be added until the end of the one year term.
min. 50k
he keeps 5% of the profit
10% early cancellation fee
miscellaneous items will belong to him (i.e comp,free play/match play, drawings)




That is not a contract.

Gambling contracts are illegal and void unless authorized by statute.

This one sounds unenforceable.

Don't expect to resolve any dispute in Court.
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
  • Threads: 116
  • Posts: 983
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
July 24th, 2014 at 5:41:47 PM permalink
I'm still in there is my 50
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
  • Jump to: