Prophecy of Paul VI in Humanae Vitae

Quote: FrGamble

Stop the madness about claiming that contraception is the only way for women to claim sexual equality with men. What I hear you saying is that you want women to look at sex the same way you do. Women have the upper hand when it comes to sex because of their natural gift of fertility. Men used to respect that and honor that - now we put on barriers to protect us or demand women to take a pill to destroy a healthy and natural part of a woman. Why? So we can have more sex. When you say give woman equality what you really men is knock women down to our level by robbing them of fertility and enabling all of us all to have lots of "safe sex". What a joke, what a lie, and what dire consequences that causes in society. Wake up people!

No, I want them to have the right to determine for themselves their status, rather than have it forced on them.

Are you trying to tell me that I won't respect and honor a woman because she is proud, powerful, and sexually active? You are wrong.

The pill has been around since what, 1960? My mother was born in '27, she used it. Are you impugning my mother's virtue? My wife, a woman who goes to church EVERY SINGLE DAY, she used it; are you impugning her virtue? All those 60-70-80 year old women you see, really virtually all the women in America; do you REALLY think there's a problem here? Because I could line up women of all ages from here to as far as you can see, women from all walks of life, bankers and housewives and clerks and saleswomen and doctors and nurses, all good American women, further than you can see, enough so that you would be hearing confessions for the rest of your life, and all of whom would be confessing to using birth control pills.

Except that none of them really think they've sinned. Not even my wife.

Quote: FrGamble

Again it is crystal clear that if you pass out condoms without being honest with people and educating them on the risk of multiple partners and promiscuity it leads to a higher incidence of STDs and pregnancies.

In one word: No.

In two words: hell, no!

If you buy an umbrella to keep dry when it rains, you'll find out there's a small chance it may have holes and leak some water anyway. By your thinking, umbrellas insure you'll get wet in the rain.

Quote:

Maybe I should try to put it in gambling terms, sex with multiple partners even with condoms is a negative expectation game - you will lose eventually.

Maybe. But I find it highly improable thet the Roman Catholic Church is saying, as you seem to be, that when having sex with multiple partners men should not use condoms.

What it comes down to is that the church has the same opinion as Rush Limbaugh. Oh, the words are nicer. The pope didn't say "slut" and "prostitute". But the attitude is the same. It's just couched in condescending instructiveness.

The idea that a church that harbored and abetted homosexual pedophilia for centuries is now
Trying to discredit condom usage as a means to reduce HIV is just a sick joke.
I loathe the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church and it is not hateful or bigoted to say so.

This thread is kind of amusing. I'm remembering when I
was 12 or 13, in the early 60's, I'd leaf thru risque fiction
books looking for the 'sex' parts. They usually described
sex with lofty platitudes like the padre uses here. Beautiful and
sacred and a glorious gift are all the things it usually isn't. For years I thought
thats what sex was, and I was real disappointed when I found
out it wasn't. Its a lot of things, but beautiful and sacred it ain't.

Padre, do you really believe all that nonsense or does the Church
make you describe sex that way. Cause you've been bamboozled,
son, its none of the lofty idealistic things you've been told it is.

Sex is usually fun or boring, with very little in between. And when its
over you're either sleepy or hungry. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.
Often its both fun and boring. It starts off fun and gets boring along
the way. Somewhat like watching porn when they stay in one position
too long. Boring.

Quote: FrGamble

Men used to respect that and honor that - now we put on barriers to protect us or demand women to take a pill to destroy a healthy and natural part of a woman. Why? So we can have more sex.

We demand? Really, Father? Do you speak to women at all, ever? I've never demanded a single woman take the pill, I don't know a single one whose done it due to a patriarchal demand.

Quote:

When you say give woman equality what you really men is knock women down to our level by robbing them of fertility and enabling all of us all to have lots of "safe sex". What a joke, what a lie, and what dire consequences that causes in society. Wake up people!

Yep, what a joke, what a lie.

" Once more a few of those romps in the hay are more intense and powerful because you have abstained and anticipated the moment. "
Celibacy clouds your judgement. Would eating a meal once a week be more enjoyable ? I think not.

Quote: WongBo

Trying to discredit condom usage as a means to reduce HIV is just a sick joke.

I'm afraid the sick joke is that we think the answer to stop the spread of STDs, unplanned pregnancy, and the denegration of women is to have more sex, albeit "protected". The answer to gun violence is not to give everyone a gun with a trigger lock on it. We need to change our minds and hearts about our sexual morality so we can recover what apparently has been lost - it's beauty, power, and sacredness. No one is immune to the problems caused when we allow our sexual desires to control us rather than us controlling them - this obviously includes of course some priests of the Catholic Church.

I admit it seems everyone is using contraception and I am a little taken a back at the vitriol and condescending tone of many when you dare to question the prevelant untruth that contraception is our savior. It is no fault of the many women who follow their conscience and use or have used contraception. I imagine the pressure to use these artificial means of birth control on the part of society and the men they know and love is fairly strong. If anything it might be the Church's fault for not more clearly articulating the consistent and liberating truth and not proclaiming the dire prophetic words of Paul VI that have unfortunately come true.

Quote: FrGamble

If anything it might be the Church's fault for not more clearly articulating the consistent and liberating truth and not proclaiming the dire prophetic words of Paul VI that have unfortunately come true.

No, the Catholic church has been quite clear about their "liberating truth" and it turns out that rational people reject it as bronze age ooga-booga. Paul VI is no prophet, judging from the tripe you posted originally, he wasn't even very bright. I understand that part of your career path is to unquestionably accept the infallibility of these popes but rational free-thinking people don't and thankfully the world is a much better place for it.

Quote: FrGamble

It is no fault of the many women who follow their conscience and use or have used contraception. I imagine the pressure to use these artificial means of birth control on the part of society and the men they know and love is fairly strong..

I'm starting to catch on to what you're saying.
For some reason, you think women don't want
to have recreational sex and they're forced
into it by those wascally men, who pressure them
to use birth control against their better judgment.

Holy cow, you couldn't further from the truth if
you tried. I hate to break it to you padre, but
women enjoy and want sex at least as much as
men, perhaps more. They want sex without
having to worry about a baby. They get the
pills and devices on their own, men have very
little to do with it. 1965 is long gone, ever hear
of womens lib?