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thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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October 25th, 2011 at 9:45:49 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Oh I assume, not much.



:) I should have stated that slightly better as "what if God is outside of time and past/present/future is meaningless... it's all there already complete?"
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
rxwine
rxwine
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October 25th, 2011 at 9:50:40 PM permalink
I should add: to judge you when I created you. It makes a difference if I didn't.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
rxwine
rxwine
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October 25th, 2011 at 9:58:25 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

If someone knows I am going to do something, how does it effect my free will to choose it? It seems to me that my freedom is not removed just because my choices are known to God.
I think it helps to remember that God is outside of time, where there is no suspense or succesion of seconds.



Oops, edited my whole post.

If I know what you are going to do every time, no exeptions there's no difference, particularly if I created you and am planning on judging you.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
ikilledjerrylogan
ikilledjerrylogan
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October 25th, 2011 at 10:00:36 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Oops, edited my whole post.

If I know what you are going to do every time, no exeptions there's no difference, particularly if I created you and am planning on judging you.



better to have loved and lost?
rxwine
rxwine
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October 25th, 2011 at 10:31:53 PM permalink
I had to look something up.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

There is time in heaven? Is God in Heaven?
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Scotty71
Scotty71
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October 25th, 2011 at 11:00:50 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I had to look something up.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

There is time in heaven? Is God in Heaven?



That is a prophetic vision.... seems odd that the original text included such a specific measure of time. I would think this was something added much later. But I am not smart enough to know when people started measuring hours and half hour. I cant imagine that G_D would measure time and for those in heaven for that matter. If the physical life is just a small part of our soul's existence time would really be meaningless.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." E.E. Cummings
rxwine
rxwine
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October 26th, 2011 at 3:01:29 AM permalink
I think the crux of the issue is: did God create people where he knew some were going to reject him and go to Hell, and why would he do that? Versus, if he did not know that before they were created how can he be omniscient?

By some people, I actually mean, he already knew their names and all. Very specific knowledge.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Nareed
Nareed
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October 26th, 2011 at 6:34:34 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I think the crux of the issue is: did God create people where he knew some were going to reject him and go to Hell, and why would he do that? Versus, if he did not know that before they were created how can he be omniscient?



Ours is not to question why :)

Seriously. The way the god character is conceived, he can help but to pile on contradictions and nonsense. As an intellectual exercise, though, if I were to take the notion of god seriously, I'd stick to what makes sense. Namely the line about god creating man in his image and likeness.

Of course this means god is some kind of humanoid creature. But his actual appearance is irrelevant. Instead the passage also means god has a mind not dissimilar to a human being's. Therefore god would also enjoy the thrill of the unexpected, pleasant surprises, an element of chance in the workings of the universe, and so on. I mean, if he already knows all that is going to happen, he'd be bored out of his mind.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
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October 26th, 2011 at 6:44:49 AM permalink
God still thinks that the Moon is a light source:

Genesis1:14 - And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
rxwine
rxwine
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October 26th, 2011 at 2:15:21 PM permalink
How many people consider the psychology of the conversion experience? There have been studies of it. (though I think mostly only free abstracts are available online)

Actually, I think there is a new term (or at least now popular) for a conversion experience that's come to the fore lately. Radicalization. As applied to the "radical" Islamists. But the experience itself can apply to other conversions in different faiths.

Although there can be an analytical slow approach to conversion with much study and immersion, there is quite a bit of radical turns too.

While it's tough to prove that someone is simply overwhelmed with much confusing and mind altering concepts instead of the awareness of a god that they may claim, it's worth considering. Many of the ideas are difficult to suss out properly even with much time. And some ideas, (as far as I'm concerned) are too murky to even be sure what's understood, though there's no lack of claiming.

If conversion were simply an intellectual experience there probably wouldn't be many converts. An emotional experience is a confirming force of proof. I'm not really sure what the success of places like the Salvation Army in converting with the down and outers and such. There's the idea of being more susceptible in a weakened state. Although I've met a few street people that are pretty tough shells and will listen to preaching if they have too and are no different afterwards other than less hungry.

Just my opinion, of course.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?

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