FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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October 14th, 2012 at 6:43:06 PM permalink
Please don't insult my faith or my intelligence by trying to portray what the Catholic Church is based on mistakes human beings have made in its name. Lets look at what the Church teaches, maybe even talk about the issue of life after death, which happens to be what this thread is about.
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
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October 14th, 2012 at 6:47:36 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

Catholicism...inquisition, cultural genocide, nazi sympathizing, homosexual pedophilia...Christlike? Not!



None of those things are Christlike. Men are not Christ... I imagine Fr Gamble covered that in his homily this week as did our priest. FWIW the athiest communists executed and starved millions of their people in the soviet union, Cambodia as did the Romans when conquering lands. Talking shit about the church for actions hundreds of years old holds no water. The pedophile issue was/is shameful and the priests involved should be jailed in criminal court PERIOD.... Cover Ups and turning a blind eye should result in conspiracy charges for the higher ranks directly involved IMO. Most of the time unfortunately the victims take money and don't force the issue further in the criminal court.

I dont know what address you write god at if any at all but I sure dont recall seeing the "Atheist Relief Services" raising money or more importantly getting their hands dirty after the earthquake in HATI or running orphanages and hospitals for the poor in 3rd world countries. I know exactly how much $$ and service hours our church gave towards missions in Africa, Latin America as well as soup kitchens in Downtown Chicago. We fund a group of battered women's shelters (any race,denomination are welcome) but you and EBOB probably think that's a big waste too. I am curious what either of you CHUMPS did in the last week, month or year to help improve the condition of your community or the world in general?
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." ó E.E. Cummings
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:06:15 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

One of the things that makes Catholicism so Christlike is the persecution against it and the lies told about it.



Yes, lets all pity the poor little weak Catholic
church. It tries to manipulate the truth at
every turn for the last 1000 years and now
has to tolerate naysayers. The problem is,
padre, the Chuch are the original creators
of the KoolAid, and to remain in good standing,
you have to drink from that spigot on a regular
basis. I understand completely and I don't hold
it against you. But neither do I condone it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:12:22 PM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

Talking shit about the church for actions hundreds of years old holds no water.



Oh yes it does! And here's why. The Church did
nothing to clean up its act, its was always forced
to by outside pressure. Conversion by force? That
would still be going on today if it wasn't illegal.
The various Inquisitions? The church only stopped,
after a very long time, because it was no longer
politically in their best interests to continue. The
Church has never been accused of being at the
forefront of modern change, no matter what era
it was. Quite the opposite.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:22:14 PM permalink
Trying to negate the officially sanctioned activities of the catholic chuch by
bringing up atrocities committed by regimes with no religious affiliation
is one of the weakest arguments I have ever heard.
Do you not get that the church did this while claiming to represent the ideals of Christ
and holding themselves up as a moral authority.
It is almost too ridiculous to believe that anyone could use this argument.
As far as orphanages go, why are there nearly universal stories of them
being used as sexual harems by the priests who ran them?
As far as missions in Africa and South America,
why in the face of AIDS is misinformation about condom use promoted as fact by the church?
How can their doctrine trump the very lives of the populace?

And Scotty, you don't know me or what I do, so if you want to call me a chump, in violation of the forum rules,
That's fine. But don't presume that just because
I am revolted by religious buffoonery and hypocrisy that I don't care about humanity.
I do more in my personal time for others in a week than most so called Christians do in a year.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:24:04 PM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

FWIW the athiest communists executed and starved millions of their people in the soviet union,



FYI, the Communists and the Nazis are not atheists. The Communists may deny god formally, but they function through faith in the state instead, complete with theology, and following the same earthly ends as most religions. The Nazis don't even deny god.

Quote:

[..]as did the Romans when conquering lands.



Before and after the Empire adopted Christianity.


Quote:

I am curious what either of you CHUMPS did in the last week, month or year to help improve the condition of your community or the world in general?



Mind the personal insult (I know they're not directed at me, but with the hypersensitive powers that be here you never know).

Anyway, I don't consider it in any way my obligation to improve anyone else, much less the world. But I do engage in such actions. his week I've argued against religion and for Laissez-Faire Capitalism.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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  • Posts: 790
October 14th, 2012 at 7:34:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Oh yes it does! And here's why. The Church did
nothing to clean up its act, its was always forced
to by outside pressure.



I know you think I am drunk on the kool-aid but this is just not true. We can actually look at the Second Vatican council as the most recent example of change motivated solely by the Holy Spirit working inside the Church.

Quote:

Conversion by force? That
would still be going on today if it wasn't illegal.



Again pure hogwash, the Church has always preached against conversion by force. See Pope Benedict's recent comments at Regensburg to get a fuller picture.

Quote:

The various Inquisitions? The church only stopped,
after a very long time, because it was no longer
politically in their best interests to continue.



We have already many times discussed how different our views on the inquisition period is. One of the big differences is that my view is supported by facts not myths and my view is shared by modern historical research.

Quote:

The Church has never been accused of being at the
forefront of modern change, no matter what era
it was. Quite the opposite.



We can look at science, philosophy, architecture, or art to name a few where we see that the Church has often been on the forefront and cutting edge of modern change and development in these important areas.
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:40:59 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

FYI, the Communists and the Nazis are not atheists. The Communists may deny god formally, but they function through faith in the state instead, complete with theology, and following the same earthly ends as most religions. The Nazis don't even deny god.



I wonder why this argument doesn't get WongBo upset. Isn't this like saying those who did such atrocious acts in the history of the Church really aren't Christians. Those awful priests may accept God formally, but they function through sick selfishness and atheistic based morality instead, complete with double lives.
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:46:30 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo


Do you not get that the church did this while claiming to represent the ideals of Christ
and holding themselves up as a moral authority.



You do understand that "the Church" did not do this or that horrible thing, human beings claiming to represent the Church did. In doing any of these awful and sinful things certain people went against the moral teachings of the Church. The problem is not the Church it is that people don't follow the moral authority of the Church.
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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October 14th, 2012 at 7:50:32 PM permalink
It is nearly impossible to separate the chuch from the guilt of the individuals it harbored.
Especially given the fact that in the case of the pedophiles, the monsignors, bishops and cardinals
played a huge role in shuffling the guilty into new locations rather than just calling the cops.
The church has officially sanctioned the teachings of the priests in Africa who spread misinformation about condoms.
Loathsome and reprehensible behavior is not only tolerated, it is coddled, encouraged, and widespread.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.

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