MrV
MrV
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October 17th, 2015 at 9:47:17 AM permalink
I like gambling at the Cal in LV: the people are mostly Hawaiians, and I've never run into any overt hostility.

But I wonder whether the Cal is taking steps to try to keep it Hawaiian, as opposed to inviting haoles.

For example, having only 2X odds on craps, when its sister casino offers much, much higher odds.

Why the difference?

One hypothesis would be simply to discourage the average gambler from lingering there.

Consider offering only 2X odds as a "tax" to discourage non-natives from playing.

Far fetched?

Maybe, maybe not, but the Cal is for Hawaiians, first and foremost, and by reputation native Hawaiians are pretty insular and not too warm toward we haoles.
"What, me worry?"
Avincow
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October 17th, 2015 at 11:21:03 AM permalink
But there are a bunch of hawaiians in MSS as well
RonC
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October 17th, 2015 at 11:25:57 AM permalink
Is it "racism" to allow everyone in the door but to cater to a preferred clientele? If they don't openly reject people for not being Hawaiian, I hardly see how it can be called "racism"--just playing to the crowd that they work to bring in. I have never felt anything but welcome there but the 2x odds thing is not my cup of tea. I have also had some of my best wins with Hawaiians rolling...so I don't mind playing craps alongside them.

I like MSS better because I can press higher than 2x odds.

I think those are just management decisions. If you bring in mostly Hawaiians via your programs to attract people, you will have mostly Hawaiians in your casino.
kewlj
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October 17th, 2015 at 11:42:46 AM permalink
Cal caters to Hawaiians....so what? Some of the local type casinos in my rotation that I visit every week cater to Latinos. Although I recognize this, I don't feel 'unwelcome'.

I really don't understand how you think the 2x odds thing plays into it? Are you saying Hawaiians are bad gamblers so they will put up with it? Implying THAT would seem to be racist.
beachbumbabs
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October 17th, 2015 at 11:45:14 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

I like gambling at the Cal in LV: the people are mostly Hawaiians, and I've never run into any overt hostility.

But I wonder whether the Cal is taking steps to try to keep it Hawaiian, as opposed to inviting haoles.

For example, having only 2X odds on craps, when its sister casino offers much, much higher odds.

Why the difference?

One hypothesis would be simply to discourage the average gambler from lingering there.

Consider offering only 2X odds as a "tax" to discourage non-natives from playing.

Far fetched?

Maybe, maybe not, but the Cal is for Hawaiians, first and foremost, and by reputation native Hawaiians are pretty insular and not too warm toward we haoles.



I lived in Hawaii for 2 years (big island) and worked at their airport.

I was NEVER considered a haole. In fact, when I resigned, the all-Hawaiian airport fire station threw a luau for me and adopted me. :)

I did have that conversation a couple of months in with a Hawaiian. It's not about being white. It's about going over there and being an Ugly American type, who complains about the native food, accommodations, idiosyncrasies, whatever's not typical of the Mainland. It's about being in a hurry, or expecting service to move at a Mainland pace. It's about taking on an attitude, conscious or not, that Polynesians are somehow inferior to you as a White. And if you try to move them along, they will go even slower, smiling and apologizing the whole way.

Next time you see an ad for Kona Brewery (I know those guys in the ads, btw; they're locals, and that was one of my regular hangouts), especially the one about "Happy Hour" and "Sad Hour", watch and listen closely. That's exACTly who they are. They're never in a hurry. They don't stress about anything. And a smile goes a long, long way. It's a very special place, and it's always on "Island Time".

I will concede there are a few parts of the Southern Island where I would not feel comfortable. They generally fly the separatist flag (so can be identified and avoided) and are worth leaving alone, which is all they really ask from the rest of the Island.

The Cal advertises heavily over there. Hawaiians love to gamble, as do Japanese (about 30% of the population last I heard), but Hawaii has no gambling, so they run special non-stop junkets to LV daily, even more often if you consider all the casinos that solicit business there. But I think more importantly for the Cal, they offer that Hawaiian attitude and amenities that welcomes the natives to their own corner of Vegas.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MrV
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October 17th, 2015 at 11:59:05 AM permalink
As I said, I like the joint, and Hawaiians seem pretty cool, I just wondered why the Cal has two times odds, when MSS is much higher?

Same company owns both joints.

Curious is all.
"What, me worry?"
rxwine
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October 17th, 2015 at 12:19:03 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Next time you see an ad for Kona Brewery



had to look that up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6WKfhj1lE0
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Paradigm
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October 17th, 2015 at 1:34:54 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I lived in Hawaii for 2 years (big island) and worked at their airport.


Babs, curious about the air traffic controller stress in HI vs. rest of your work locations. My understanding is that air traffic control is stressful......it has to be, you have thousands of lives in your hands every day. How does the Island Time and Hawaiian laid back attitude play in those types of circumstances. I love the HI laid back, Island pace attitude and wish I could put it to more use in my daily life, so just curious what differences you noticed being in a high stress environment but in a location with such a relaxed attitude.
Paradigm
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October 17th, 2015 at 1:35:51 PM permalink
And my apologies for de-railing the thread, but really Racism at The Cal......the thread needs to be de-railed!
EvenBob
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October 17th, 2015 at 1:53:11 PM permalink
I lived in Makaha in the 70's for awhile
and didn't get along with the natives
at all. None of them seemed to have
jobs and they hung out at the beach
all day drinking Coors and smoking
reefer. They would flirt brazenly
with my girlfriend all the time, right
in front of me.

Hawaiian time, the TV shows didn't
ever start on the hour. News shows
would run long, it was a very strange
place.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
ahiromu
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October 17th, 2015 at 2:40:26 PM permalink
This shit happens all over Vegas. I know for a fact that I get special offers from CET because I have a Japanese last name... the funny part is they tend to be in Vietnamese or Chinese (along with English).
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
RS
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October 17th, 2015 at 3:05:29 PM permalink
I went to Hawaii once as a young lad.

It was an interesting place, that's for sure. It reminded me of Mexico. Someone says they'll meet you at 4:00pm doesn't actually mean they'll be there at 4...it means they'll start getting ready at 4 and they'll meet you at 5 or 530.
darkoz
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October 17th, 2015 at 5:11:59 PM permalink
A censored joke from the Marx Brothers film Animal Crackers:

"I took some photos of the native girls but they weren't developed."
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MrV
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October 17th, 2015 at 5:27:51 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

And my apologies for de-railing the thread, but really Racism at The Cal......the thread needs to be de-railed!



Really?

They cater to and seem to prefer Hawaiians.

What label would you give it?
"What, me worry?"
beachbumbabs
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October 17th, 2015 at 6:32:07 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Babs, curious about the air traffic controller stress in HI vs. rest of your work locations. My understanding is that air traffic control is stressful......it has to be, you have thousands of lives in your hands every day. How does the Island Time and Hawaiian laid back attitude play in those types of circumstances. I love the HI laid back, Island pace attitude and wish I could put it to more use in my daily life, so just curious what differences you noticed being in a high stress environment but in a location with such a relaxed attitude.



The vast majority of pilots over there are incredibly professional. They have to be, even at the GA level; it's a very challenging flight environment. Strong winds between the islands, very vertical terrain with few lights, especially on the Big Island (making night flying especially hazardous), large areas of radio drop out, even larger areas of non-radar, any problem almost surely puts you in the ocean because there's nowhere to land (few beaches, mostly mountains, 3-5 airstrips per island). The waters are so clear you can see all the airplane wrecks as you fly over them; I think there were 42 in shallow water just around the Big Island last I heard, though that's several decades worth. The Civil Air Patrol had a map of them so they wouldn't mistake an old wreck for a new one. There's some metal on the sides of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa also; tough recovery sites.

Virtually all the controllers I worked with started on the Mainland, either with the military or the FAA, so it was not much different in that respect, except that it was the tower with the least experience per controller (by far) that I ever worked. Even though it was a contract tower, we were working 80-120 Air Carrier ops a day (seasonal), which is very unusual - I think it's the busiest AC contract tower in the system -, but the presence of American, United, Delta, Alaskan, JapanAir, Hawaiian, and several smaller carriers forced the entire operation to work at a high level. The military also showed up almost every day for training, and there was a major helicopter school on site, so it was an interesting mix of traffic.

Fuel is so expensive over there that the pilots did not want to wait; they were ready, they cooperated with fast moves on my part well, and they were willing to take chances to get moving. I can say I sort of "taught" the controllers and local pilots there a few things about how to move and what they could really do, because the usual controllers at the time I got there had never worked the volume of traffic I had, so they were doing some things slower than required by the rules. I ended up as the training officer, trying to show everybody how to move some metal, my last 8 months or so; I think it was greatly appreciated by nearly everybody, especially the pilots (yeah, there's always that one controller that doesn't want to work that hard....lol). So "Island Time" mostly got suspended for airport operations, but off-duty was another world entirely.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
TomG
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October 17th, 2015 at 7:01:23 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I really don't understand how you think the 2x odds thing plays into it?



You are so naive. Any casino that has craps games with only 2x odds is doing so because they are racist and don't like your skin color.
ten2win
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October 17th, 2015 at 7:13:43 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

You are so naive. Any casino that has craps games with only 2x odds is doing so because they are racist and don't like your skin color.


Would that pertain to The Fremont also?
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FleaStiff
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October 17th, 2015 at 7:13:46 PM permalink
Any casino with only 2x odds at craps is stingy.

California Club chose long ago to market to Hawaiians and has been successful at it since they keep coming back.

The marketing ploy is that you are on Island Time at each end of your trip. I remember the Banana Republic's initial chalkboard of weather reports in Nairobi, Cape Town and Jo'berg. I don't think it was racist in any way.
Most casinos focus on your chips and not much else.
MrV
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October 17th, 2015 at 9:03:15 PM permalink
My use of the word "racist" was probably incorrect, but I am not sure what other term to use to describe what I think is going on at the craps pit at the Cal.

My guess is they keep it at a lousy two times odds as a form of "initiation fee" that the regulars (Hawaiians) willingly "pay" in order to discourage outsiders (non-Hawaiians) from hanging around.

Given the choice of MSS or the Cal I choose MSS every time, due to the better odds offered.

But the Cal is always reasonably busy, and almost all the players are Hawaiian.

Sort of like a club over there in the Cal's craps pit.

What other reason would Boyd have for limiting it to two times odds, given the high odds at the sister property, MSS, which has a greater non-Hawaiian presence at the craps tables than does the Cal?
"What, me worry?"
Ibeatyouraces
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October 17th, 2015 at 9:12:42 PM permalink
J. Grosjean says in B.C. Ex. CAA that taking full odds is a myth.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Ayecarumba
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October 17th, 2015 at 10:17:02 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

...

They cater to and seem to prefer Hawaiians.

What label would you give it?



I would call it market segmentation. Businesses do it all the time. Luxury hotels send offers based on income, credit rating, and zip code. Their clients, not surprisingly, end up being Anglos. I don't consider this racist, just spending their marketing money in the way that provides the most efficient return.

I do wonder about the 2X odds though from a business stand point. I suspect they keep it because there is no real competition now that the Horseshoe is only a memory. The "Golden Arm" (or is it Hand?) is a valuable attraction that is only available at the Cal. Perhaps the lower limit is the cost of attempting to secure your name on a plaque.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wonko33
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October 17th, 2015 at 10:28:55 PM permalink
My inlaws are Hawaiian and they call me haole the whole time when I am there, but my beer is never empty and it is hugs a plenty when I get there and when I leave. A lot of it is good humor and if you can't take it then they don't like you.

I agree with another poster, they will resent people from the mainland who go there and try to change their ways, my inlaws were pissed at this dumbass haole who bought a place in rural area of the Big Island but is complaining the roosters are waking him up in the morning. Or people who look down on them because of their way of life.

As for the casino I don't think the 2x odds is some kind of master plan to keep haoles out , lol
So Wizard, still no basic strategy for strip poker huh?
TomG
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October 17th, 2015 at 10:56:19 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

My use of the word "racist" was probably incorrect ...
What other reason would Boyd have for limiting it to two times odds?



Racism was absolutely the correct term. There is no other possible explanation for why any casino would ever offer only 2x odds on craps other than blatant racism.

If you notice, no one associated with the casino has ever denied this, despite such heavy accusations
MrV
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October 18th, 2015 at 9:48:54 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Racism was absolutely the correct term. There is no other possible explanation for why any casino would ever offer only 2x odds on craps other than blatant racism.

If you notice, no one associated with the casino has ever denied this, despite such heavy accusations



Cute.

Given that MSS has much higher odds, I still believe my theory is correct.

Whatever.

I enjoy playing craps with the Hawaiians, they're aggressive, pressing M-Fers.
"What, me worry?"
Ibeatyouraces
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October 18th, 2015 at 9:52:39 AM permalink
Hawaiians are descendants of Asian. If this place is racist, then so is Gold Coast.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Francisco
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October 18th, 2015 at 7:38:15 PM permalink
To discuss racism is very very difficult . We citizen of USA, are compose of too my racial group and every one is bias. People from the Hawaiian state are American citizen . The racial make up are 30+% haoles ,30+% Japanese ,15+% Filipinos , 5 to 10+% Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese and only 5% original Hawawiian.
I lived in Hawaii for over 30 years. I went to Vegas several time and stayed at Cal because they offer good value for the money. I play crap some but that is not my game. I think Cal offer 2x odds on crap only because it's better for the house and nobody from Hawaii complain about it. Most if not all gamblers from Hawaii are recreational players. They do not think of AP ,EV, etc. they just come and play and had a good vacation! So , why should Cal give more odds to the crap game if they have enough players already.
Racism is a bad thing. We are suppose to be created equal.
Ahigh
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October 19th, 2015 at 12:04:12 AM permalink
I'm not going to go too far into any sort of social analysis here, but the Cal has an off-the-beaten-path sort of property. The reason why they cater to a specific group is because it's something that they found works to improve business there with their efforts.

The Downtown Grand is still looking for a winning strategy too. And if you can't pull them from 100 steps away, why not look on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of distance away.

I don't know that any casino caters to Texas, but it seems like that could be another target if a marketing department put together a working strategy, they could probably pull it off.

Replace oxtail soup with BBQ brisket, and have a nice setup for horse-racing-centric sportsbook, and maybe run promos every time the Cowboys are going to play. Do a Sunday church service that is gambler-friendly and friendly to Baptist, Methodist, and Catholic religions.

Offer a super-high-end Bingo parlor that is fancier than any other in Vegas.

You get the idea. If you study the culture and offer what they want, they will respond in knowing that they can feel "at home" in Vegas somewhere.
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Ahigh
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October 19th, 2015 at 1:05:18 AM permalink
One hour later, and not able to edit.

Yeah. <dislike>
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RonC
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October 19th, 2015 at 11:11:38 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I don't know that any casino caters to Texas, but it seems like that could be another target if a marketing department put together a working strategy, they could probably pull it off.

Replace oxtail soup with BBQ brisket, and have a nice setup for horse-racing-centric sportsbook, and maybe run promos every time the Cowboys are going to play. Do a Sunday church service that is gambler-friendly and friendly to Baptist, Methodist, and Catholic religions.

Offer a super-high-end Bingo parlor that is fancier than any other in Vegas.

You get the idea. If you study the culture and offer what they want, they will respond in knowing that they can feel "at home" in Vegas somewhere.



Bull Ridin' and Steer Wrasslin' in the entertainment venue each night...them Texans would roll on in... We love our rodeo; they have rodeos most every day somewhere in the state. ...and our Barbeque...none like it.

I think that sums up the whole issue--there is no racism, they just found a niche and ran with it.
theGambler11
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November 2nd, 2015 at 1:02:37 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I lived in Hawaii for 2 years (big island) and worked at their airport.

I was NEVER considered a haole. In fact, when I resigned, the all-Hawaiian airport fire station threw a luau for me and adopted me. :)

I did have that conversation a couple of months in with a Hawaiian. It's not about being white. It's about going over there and being an Ugly American type, who complains about the native food, accommodations, idiosyncrasies, whatever's not typical of the Mainland. It's about being in a hurry, or expecting service to move at a Mainland pace. It's about taking on an attitude, conscious or not, that Polynesians are somehow inferior to you as a White. And if you try to move them along, they will go even slower, smiling and apologizing the whole way.

Next time you see an ad for Kona Brewery (I know those guys in the ads, btw; they're locals, and that was one of my regular hangouts), especially the one about "Happy Hour" and "Sad Hour", watch and listen closely. That's exACTly who they are. They're never in a hurry. They don't stress about anything. And a smile goes a long, long way. It's a very special place, and it's always on "Island Time".

I will concede there are a few parts of the Southern Island where I would not feel comfortable. They generally fly the separatist flag (so can be identified and avoided) and are worth leaving alone, which is all they really ask from the rest of the Island.

The Cal advertises heavily over there. Hawaiians love to gamble, as do Japanese (about 30% of the population last I heard), but Hawaii has no gambling, so they run special non-stop junkets to LV daily, even more often if you consider all the casinos that solicit business there. But I think more importantly for the Cal, they offer that Hawaiian attitude and amenities that welcomes the natives to their own corner of Vegas.



What a beautiful post about Hawaii! :) Make me wish to go there sooner!
beachbumbabs
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November 2nd, 2015 at 3:05:58 PM permalink
Quote: theGambler11

What a beautiful post about Hawaii! :) Make me wish to go there sooner!



I appreciate your saying that, but you're still banned for inserting a spam link (now removed) into your quote of me. Have a lovely Island day!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
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