Third AC casino closing end of summer announced

Whatever we come up with... its too late now.

AC never really had the "do something and do it now" to keep this gambling money in town.

Trains, buses, boats, convention centers, boxing matches... all to "save the boardwalk" or atleast "save the golden goose".

In olden days of the "internet" say 98-99 I followed the axiom, "First adaptors must die". That is the first time anything got rolled-out or upgraded, it was better to lay back and wait for improvements to an undiscovered flaw or three. Thats why there was W98 sp 2, XP sp3, etc.

AC was the first adaptor of E. Coast Gambling, CT a distant 2nd, and as we all know other states/sovereign nations have followed. That puts AC/CT in some very difficult situations. But I must say being there in the 80's, AC was way too seedy/shady outside the gaming areas. I felt it was the Casino district only that was OK. Walking from Caeser's or Bally's to the Bus Depot/Train was at least an adventure in broad daylight. Over at Trump's Castle/Harrah's Marina one could drive right into garage alot easier than Downtown/Beach. Still, the neighborhoods were gritty in the area. Frankly, the suburban/near rural setting of Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun seemed a better place to be. And like MrV, I left AC by '92, Foxwoods in 99, and gaming in general in 05. Did any of these places leave a bitter taste... no. AC was pretty damn cool for a show and a gambit early on. That moved to Foxwoods also, but did not last as long, no way. The Sun had a good gambling atmosphere, but I never got used to the open areas so close to the gaming floor. As good as it looks, it never felt like a place kids should in. OTOH, I liked the Wolf Den at night some folks/bands could rock the joint for free.

Those days are gone. Downsizing a Casino/Hotel is never easy, and always overbudget.

Things will level out once AC is down to about two or three casinos.

That is my approximation of the number necessary to handle anticipated future demand.

Hello, "locals casinos."

There will always be some demand for gambling in south Jersey, but now there are simply too many casinos to service existing demand, due to increased competition.

And no, bringing back the diving horse won't save them.

They had their run, now it's pretty much over.

Quote: Wizard

I don't know of anything that will save AC. As somebody else wrote, they are destined to become Reno.

I've never been to either, but in my head I figured reno is better already given all the negativity I've heard about AC.

Did Reno suffer a huge decline in the past?

Quote: kewlj

In remembering that NJ transit train ride there was another annoying thing about that ride. There was only one single track the whole way. There were several side track pullover spots where the train might have to pullover and stop to wait for the train going the other way to pass. This slowed the trip. There usually was at least one pullover, 5 minute wait on each trip. In the last year or so, before I moved, NJT started running a second non stop train (from NY) on those same tracks on weekends. This meant even more of those 5 minute side track wait periods.

Amateur hour. And at a cost to taxpayers of many millions of dollars for barely patronized service.

Yah, me too. Took forever to get outta Philly-No. Philly. Single track grade-crossings. Imagine this... Take AMTRAK New Haven to Philly. Leave NH at 430AM. Arrive Philly 845AM. Catch NJT to AC at 915AM Arrive 1045. Leave AC 845PM (or was it 815?) Arrive Philly 1000PM. Get to AMTRAK for 1030PM to NH by 245AM. Notwithstanding driveing to/from NH. LOOOOoooong day. Cost $56. Comp $40(as 2x $20) + Buffet (Lunch for me).

Downtown Reno is pretty much a s**thole, but it is still a destination for those who live in Northern California. It's got a nice ball park to see the Aces in, and there are a few nice casinos in town which still gets alot of Northern Californians. We liked the Peppermill and spent many weeks there while on assignment.

Atlantic City is done. Revel failed, and the concept of "if you build it, they will come" was tried and failed. There is therefore nothing that will save AC except for shrinking the casino base and changing the land use back to condos and non-gaming hotels. The beach is pretty, but until you get the riff-raff away from Pacific Street and beyond, you're not going to increase values in that community. That requires gentrification that can only be achieved by getting rid of most of the casinos and bringing in people with money and pretty architectural projects that aren't casinos.

Close Revel, Showboat, Taj, Resorts, Ballys, Plaza, and the Hilton, leaving Borgata, Marina, Caesars, and Tropicana. Tear down the hotels, put up beachfront condos. Establish police. Beef up the college. Open up full-service casinos in Hoboken, Elizabeth, and Hackensack and blow away New York city. Up the slot take tax from the state and clean up Atlantic City.

The economics of this are pretty simple. Previous to every other state near them allowing casino gambling. AC did about 6B a year in gaming revenue. Now that all the neighboring states have casino gambling...a little less than 3B. Simple....no amount of roller coasters or boxing matches is going to change the fact that in a 15 year period AC went from essentially zero competition to a crapload of competition. (crapload for those that are wondering; is a technical economics term meaning...you're screwed). Prediction: AC is close to bottoming out on gaming revenue, there can't be any more competition. They are going to end up somewhere between 2.5 and 3B a year in gaming revenue. That's less than half of what it used to be. So therefore I'm quite sure we'll eventually have half as many casinos. It's not going to be Detroit. It's just going to settle in at half of what it was before. Simple numbers. Nothing will restore AC from a business standpoint. Not a better airport, not a cleaner beach, not new nightclubs, nothing. Unless there is a significant decline in competition in surrounding states. Which isn't happening any time soon. Sad but true.

Should the state and local officials in NJ done more to build up AC and south jersey in general when they were the only east coast gambling for 20 years. Yeah of course they should have. But it's wayyyyy toooo late for those measures to work. It is what it's going to be at this point.

vendman, NYC is opening three casinos soon. IN the city. That's gonna hurt AC a lot worse than any of the competition so far. How can you say the competition is maxing out? It's just getting started.

Quote: sodawater

vendman, NYC is opening three casinos soon. IN the city. That's gonna hurt AC a lot worse than any of the competition so far. How can you say the competition is maxing out? It's just getting started.

No, not IN the city. Way outside the city. The three casinos are going to be opened in upstate NY. No new casinos are allowed within NYC for I believe seven years, which was meant as a window for upstate NY to benefit from legalized gambling before the (supposedly) much better off city.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/nyregion/17-companies-file-casino-plans-with-new-york-state-in-push-for-4-gambling-licenses.html?_r=0

From the article:
"The state plans to select the winners sometime in the fall for three separate regions: the capital region around Albany, the Catskill and Hudson Valley areas, and an area in the central part of the state that stretches from Binghamton north to Lake Ontario."

I thought that voters approved "up to three casinos in NYC" -- eventually

It was a state referendum - 3 casinos approved for NYS, Not NYC.

Unfortunately a lot of times people refer to either as New York or NY.

"They just legalized casinos in NY."
"Oh, the city really needs them." (WRONG).

Quote: sodawater

vendman, NYC is opening three casinos soon. IN the city. That's gonna hurt AC a lot worse than any of the competition so far. How can you say the competition is maxing out? It's just getting started.

As someone else has posted...the NY casinos are upstate not in the city. Upstate NY casinos have been around a while now. can't see it sucking much more business from AC. In addition the other states around AC are pretty much done opening casinos that will greatly impact the AC market. So yeah I think their gaming revenues are close to bottoming out. That should leave enough business for 6-8 casinos. The shrinking of the market has obviously begun already and I'm sure we will see another closing or two before things level off. But the whole gambling market is not going to completely collapse.

Edit -- I guess NYC could open casinos after 2020, reading the referendum results.

Quote: vendman1

As someone else has posted...the NY casinos are upstate not in the city. Upstate NY casinos have been around a while now. can't see it sucking much more business from AC.

Yes there has been upstate casinos but none this close to NYC. It is very likely that at least 1 (and probably 2) of the "upstate" casinos will be in Orange county which is only a little more than 1 hour from NYC and even less from northern NJ. They WILL be a further competition to AC. My wife and I frequent AC a few times of year. When these new casinos are open they will be our "local" casinos and our trips to AC will certainly be reduced if not eliminated. As stated previously the licenses will be award this fall with opening required within 2 years.

Don't underestimate poker and table games. Once NY gets that it'll be huge.

Quote: Lemieux66

Don't underestimate poker and table games. Once NY gets that it'll be huge.

Doesn't pretty much every casino in NY already have poker and Table games?

Yonkers does not, and the one in NYC doesn't either. Some of the ones upstate do.

Quote: boymimbo

Yonkers does not, and the one in NYC doesn't either. Some of the ones upstate do.

TurningStone does but that's very far away. The biggest thing I hate about the NYC area casinos is you simply can't beat any game they spread right now. Yet it's making a killing.

I recall seeing a TV report about the future NY casinos. One interesting thing that was pointed out is that one of the locations will be at/or near a train station. Since most people in NYC don't own cars, they expect this location to be very busy and profitable.