Sabretom2
Sabretom2
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
July 19th, 2013 at 2:51:25 PM permalink
Detroit: America's proving ground of liberal ideas.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 19th, 2013 at 3:09:05 PM permalink
The judge and others are saying "no bankruptcy" so what could be an alternative?

What if Detroit just stopped paying some people? Stop paying full pensions and full worker salaries?

Before you say "crazy" remember that in the late 80s and 90s this happened in failing communist states and command economies. Surely Americans would not be able to grasp it, but the city manager could use it as a way of saying, "I told you we were broke!" And each month some people get paid and some do not.

A GOP House would probably tell Detroit to drop dead, so the game could go on for some time. It would force a hand. Detroit has few people in the nation's suburbs that will feel bad for it given the level of mismanagement. 47% of the country may care and know more about the Kardashian child.

Thoughts?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
July 19th, 2013 at 3:24:04 PM permalink
Detroit? What channel is that on?
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 19th, 2013 at 3:26:51 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
coilman
coilman
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 1159
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
July 19th, 2013 at 5:11:14 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Next time, drop them off at the McDonald's on the SW corner 7 mile and Gratiot Ave in NE Detroit and see what they think.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nzxhVWPFA8



nice area of town
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
  • Threads: 212
  • Posts: 8277
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
July 19th, 2013 at 5:20:26 PM permalink
I think you're pretty close AZ. I gave up on complete chaos as a possible future and also started thinking the US would most likely go the way of the USSR. It's probably the most logical idea.
I am a robot.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 19th, 2013 at 5:44:11 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I think you're pretty close AZ. I gave up on complete chaos as a possible future and also started thinking the US would most likely go the way of the USSR. It's probably the most logical idea.



At the rate we are going, things have to come apart at some point. We can either keep printing money cause hyperinflation, then no other nation will trade with us in dollars. Or we can have people sue like was done in Detroit today and refuse to recognize the problem. One day the bank will call the Treasurer in Detroit and say the account is overdrawn. Nobody will get paid and even more court battles to see who does.

My advice to people is to learn real, useful skills. If the worst happens lawyers and marketing reps will go hungry as those skills are useless in a collapse. Welders, electricians, engineers, and other useful skills will have a place. Learn to do things as simple as changing your oil and grow some of your own food.

One thing is for very certain, the lumps on assistance in Detroit waiting for the handouts will have the hardest time.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 19th, 2013 at 6:01:05 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3502
Joined: May 10, 2010
July 19th, 2013 at 7:04:12 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

What if Detroit just stopped paying some people? Stop paying full pensions and full worker salaries?

No "what if" is needed. The problem exploded a month ago with billions in default:
Jul 5, 2013 5:40pm EDT
(Reuters) - Detroit's announcement that it is suspending payments on its unsecured debt as a likely prelude to bankruptcy pushed the amount of defaulted debt in the U.S. municipal bond market up to $6.96 billion in the first half of 2013, according to a report on Friday by Distressed Debt Securities Newsletter. That surpasses the national total of $4.8 billion of defaulted munis in full-year 2012.

Defaults totaled only $277.5 million in the first quarter of 2013 then soared to $6.68 billion in the second quarter when Kevyn Orr, a corporate bankruptcy lawyer selected by the state of Michigan to run Detroit as an emergency manager, announced on June 14 a moratorium on payments for certain debt he classified as unsecured.

The publisher of the newsletter, Richard Lehmann, said his report included all of Detroit's $6.4 billion of outstanding bonds even though some of it is considered secured and the city has officially only defaulted on $1.45 billion of insured pension obligation certificates of participation by skipping a June payment.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 20th, 2013 at 7:12:07 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
July 20th, 2013 at 7:36:06 PM permalink
Bet on the bankruptcy judge winning, as usual !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 20th, 2013 at 7:37:41 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
July 20th, 2013 at 7:43:27 PM permalink
Average police response to a call. 58 minutes in Detroit, 11 minutes nationwide.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 20th, 2013 at 7:46:01 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
July 20th, 2013 at 7:48:13 PM permalink
Imagine being a cop and walking a beat in Detroit ! Forget that, my age is showing again. SIGH
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
July 21st, 2013 at 12:03:27 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I gave up on complete chaos as a possible future and also started thinking the US would most likely go the way of the USSR. It's probably the most logical idea.


Truth is, US and USSR/Russian empire are a lot more alike than people think of them.

Both are exceptionally geographically large countries, with low population density, concentrated in a few key places, vast natural resources. Both are heavily multi-ethnic and multi-cultural, both were formed recently in historical terms, both violently and went through civil wars. Both believe they have their special place in the world, one of power, and their special path to follow. During more than one period in time, they were on the same page in terms of cultural, scientific, economic, military development and power.

But at the end of the 20th century one was, a number of blemishes aside, a success story, and the other, though not without a few highlights, a screwup. To someone from the former USSR, Detroit wouldn't look all that shocking.
So what was the secret ingredient that made all the difference?

More importantly, if US keeps following down its current path, what is supposed to keep history from doing what it usually does, repeating itself?
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
coilman
coilman
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 1159
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 21st, 2013 at 6:04:57 AM permalink
Quote: P90

Truth is, US and USSR/Russian empire are a lot more alike than people think of them.

Both are exceptionally geographically large countries, with low population density, concentrated in a few key places, vast natural resources. Both are heavily multi-ethnic and multi-cultural, both were formed recently in historical terms, both violently and went through civil wars. Both believe they have their special place in the world, one of power, and their special path to follow. During more than one period in time, they were on the same page in terms of cultural, scientific, economic, military development and power.

But at the end of the 20th century one was, a number of blemishes aside, a success story, and the other, though not without a few highlights, a screwup. To someone from the former USSR, Detroit wouldn't look all that shocking.
So what was the secret ingredient that made all the difference?

More importantly, if US keeps following down its current path, what is supposed to keep history from doing what it usually does, repeating itself?



Besides the free market, the USA has far better geography. Internally so much of the USSR is uninhabitable. They did not have a good system of rivers to move freight. There were just a very few ports. With its overseas bases, the US Navy putting up a blockkade of the USSR was a real possibility. For any navy to blockkade the USA would have been impossible.

This helped allowed the USA to set the post-WWII international trade system. The USA had money to buy and lend, the USSR did not. It was always just a matter of time and the will of leaders in the USA to keep their boot on the head of the USSR and let it fail. Before Reagan most USA leaders felt they had to allow the USSR to exist, Reagan thought otherwise and when the USSR was falling behind militarily instead of cutting back on our military he put his foot on the gas to get even further ahead. The USA got lots of spinnoff tech from military spending, the USSR did not.

Sadly, the USA will have many more Detroits the next 20 years, how we handle them may well determie if we survive.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 21st, 2013 at 9:13:56 AM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0720/With-Detroit-bankrupt-is-blue-model-to-blame



I find it amusing how some lefties quoted are trying to pretend it is all the fault of Toyota and what has happened in Detroit can't happen anywhere else.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
July 21st, 2013 at 10:58:44 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Besides the free market, the USA has far better geography. Internally so much of the USSR is uninhabitable. They did not have a good system of rivers to move freight.


True. Even so, most populace of the United States prefers to live on one of the two coasts; USSR's population density formed a line through its European part. At that time in history rail was the key mode of transportation, and for the Soviets' need for trans-Siberian rail, the United States had to connect the coasts.
Heartland's agricultural capacity is a factor, but after some problems in the 1920s-30s both were self-sufficient or exporting, though to different extents. USSR's proximity to Germany played a large role during WWII, but the economic peak was nonetheless reached after it.

All in all, were it set out as an experiment to test the two economic system choices, it would've been about as scientifically sound as can be set within our imperfect real world.


Quote: AZDuffman

There were just a very few ports. With its overseas bases, the US Navy putting up a blockkade of the USSR was a real possibility. For any navy to blockkade the USA would have been impossible.


Oh, that one didn't come until much later. The economic split came about the time of WWI, at which time US was yet to build up an internationally respected navy.
Everything below happened at least in large part as a result of this decision, for instance a state that is striving to deprecate money might makes for a less than perfect banker choice.

Were the two superpowers to trade their economic choices a century ago - Soviets going full NEP and US socialist - the world wouldn't be a mirror image of what it's now, of course, but it's a safe bet that the outcomes by the turn of the century would be largely exchanged as well. You'd have something along the lines of a Capitalist Union banking in a free-trade Eurasia and 46 United Socialist States struggling to maintain influence over a crumbling Pan-American Pact.

Sadly, it seems that no lessons have been learned from this test of systems by the subjects themselves, with too many in the US now second-guessing their correct past decision to stay on the economic right. If this left heading is maintained, instead of a cautionary tale the Soviet Union is going to serve as a case study and Detroit as a tangible preview for America's mid-term future.

Nothing is going to happen overnight, of course. Facades of prosperity will stand tall in ever-shrinking city centers as more and more joining the unemployed majority and dilapidation slowly creeps from the swaths of abandoned suburbs closer and closer to the half-vacant skyscrapers. And by the time no one's fooled anymore and it all sinks in, the nation will have to be reinvented to salvage, not repaired.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 21st, 2013 at 11:42:34 AM permalink
Quote:



Were the two superpowers to trade their economic choices a century ago - Soviets going full NEP and US socialist - the world wouldn't be a mirror image of what it's now, of course, but it's a safe bet that the outcomes by the turn of the century would be largely exchanged as well. You'd have something along the lines of a Capitalist Union banking in a free-trade Eurasia and 46 United Socialist States struggling to maintain influence over a crumbling Pan-American Pact.



An interesting question, what might have happened if the ideology was reversed. But allow me to make my guess.

If the USA went not just socialist but the totalitarian route of the USSR there would have been massive resettlement in the plains on large collective farms. Whoever was in chartge would have still tried to wipe out the Indians. But instead of the Homestead Act the governmnet would find "crimes" to charge people for and put them to work. There would have been a good chance that blacks would have been prime targets of this, and the center of the "USSA " would be 80%+ blacks working farms. People would have been kept in the cities, no suburbs, and no Interstate Highway System.

The "USR" OTOH, would have a Ukraine producing lke crazy, and a great industrial heartland in the west fed by raw materials from the east. People might have flooded into Siberia for work as they are in North Dakota in the USA today. Hitler would not have been crazy enouugh to invade such a place, but rather an accomodation would have been reached. Still having few good ports, the USR and Germany might be the center of world trade. All IMHO anyways.

Quote:

Sadly, it seems that no lessons have been learned from this test of systems by the subjects themselves, with too many in the US now second-guessing their correct past decision to stay on the economic right. If this left heading is maintained, instead of a cautionary tale the Soviet Union is going to serve as a case study and Detroit as a tangible preview for America's mid-term future.



Scoialism can look great from the outside, most so to people who like to "get by" rather than thrive. Cheap medical care but you have to wait forever to see a doctor. Cheap housing *if* you don't have to wait. Good wages, but not many goods to spend your money on.

The Michael Moore's of the world never look under the surface. And there are those in the USA who damn profit mostly because they can never make any for themselves.

What happened in Detroit is the economic looters took over in the late 1960s. They ate every cookie in the jar and when the jar was empty they raided the pie stash. Now there are no more cookies and no sane person will consider living there much less opening a business. The looters who produce nothing but rules along with the great amount of residents who refuse to work now outnumber the productive folks and we see the results.

But no need to visit Detroit to see it. Soon enough the show will come to Atlanta, Buffalo, Cleveland, and the entire state of California.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 5072
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
July 21st, 2013 at 2:04:07 PM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

Detroit: America's proving ground of liberal ideas.


What's amazing is that people like Ed Shultz and the other effete libs on MSNBC are trying to blame conservatives(!) for Detroit's collapse. Unbelievable.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
July 21st, 2013 at 4:55:33 PM permalink
Detroit should change it's name to Wall Street and apply for a bailout !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
July 21st, 2013 at 7:02:03 PM permalink
cause and effect

"for whatever one sows, that will he also reap"
"What, me worry?"
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
July 22nd, 2013 at 12:07:37 PM permalink
Here we go, 25 reasons not to move to Detroit.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/07/25_facts_about_the_fall_of_detroit_that_will_leave_you_shaking_your_head.html

My faves:

7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

And the best part:

13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

God bless them..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 22nd, 2013 at 12:16:26 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
boymimbo
boymimbo
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
July 22nd, 2013 at 1:48:57 PM permalink
I wonder how successful reversing time would be for Detroit and turn abandoned neighbourhoods back into farmland. Leave the streets where they are. Remove the streetlights and above ground services, including sidewalks. Raze, demolish and recycle any properties and pay the owners to move. Sell the parcels to Monsanto. They'll buy it, mass farm it, and then sell the property back to Detroit when the city cycles back. Do that for 30% of the city and force the people into neighborhoods.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 1739
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
July 22nd, 2013 at 1:52:59 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I wonder how successful reversing time would be for Detroit and turn abandoned neighbourhoods back into farmland. Leave the streets where they are. Remove the streetlights and above ground services, including sidewalks. Raze, demolish and recycle any properties and pay the owners to move. Sell the parcels to Monsanto. They'll buy it, mass farm it, and then sell the property back to Detroit when the city cycles back. Do that for 30% of the city and force the people into neighborhoods.



Detroit is too far north to grow coca plants
Each day is better than the next
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 22nd, 2013 at 1:56:43 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 1739
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
July 22nd, 2013 at 2:02:37 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Since there's so much heroine addiction around here, how about poppies?



Brilliant......where is Detroit's suggestion box.....? Hopefully not in Detroit.
Each day is better than the next
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 22nd, 2013 at 3:16:48 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I wonder how successful reversing time would be for Detroit and turn abandoned neighbourhoods back into farmland. Leave the streets where they are. Remove the streetlights and above ground services, including sidewalks. Raze, demolish and recycle any properties and pay the owners to move. Sell the parcels to Monsanto. They'll buy it, mass farm it, and then sell the property back to Detroit when the city cycles back. Do that for 30% of the city and force the people into neighborhoods.



There has been talk of razing the streets and all, letting it go back to nature so to speak. Problem seems to be that it has gotten so bad you could not even have a mini-homestead act and give the property away because anyone with the character to revitalize the neighborhoods would not be caught dead in them. A best hope may be to rip everything out and when development can be sustained then let it redevelop.

I think un-incorporation of at least what will be abandoned may be an answer. Make the areas townships again, or even unincorporated areas with the state holding title to the land, then new patent grants if and when it makes sense to do so.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 1739
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
July 22nd, 2013 at 3:33:31 PM permalink
Here's an idea.......let it play out
Each day is better than the next
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
July 22nd, 2013 at 3:39:30 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
P90
P90
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
July 23rd, 2013 at 1:54:08 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I wonder how successful reversing time would be for Detroit and turn abandoned neighbourhoods back into farmland. Leave the streets where they are. Remove the streetlights and above ground services, including sidewalks. Raze, demolish and recycle any properties and pay the owners to move.


What's the point when there's plenty of untouched farmland of better quality and with no need for these massive expenses?
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 13884
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 23rd, 2013 at 3:09:16 AM permalink
Quote: P90

What's the point when there's plenty of untouched farmland of better quality and with no need for these massive expenses?



It might make some sense to farm trees in Detroit. Plant some pines and oaks, in 20-30 years they can be harvested and by then maybe there will be some demand to resettle the area. Sell it out in 10-20 acre blocks of land.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
coilman
coilman
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 1159
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
July 23rd, 2013 at 8:59:18 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Since there's so much heroine addiction around here, how about poppies?





http://www.freep.com/article/20130713/NEWS01/307130035/Drug-bust-cocaine-heroin?odyssey=obinsite
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
July 23rd, 2013 at 1:15:23 PM permalink
Drugs are the only industry in town: you either transport them, sell them or you seize them and support the cops/DA/Judges/Rehabers/Jailors/Etc., who keep the prices high and the competition low.
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
July 23rd, 2013 at 1:58:01 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Drugs are the only industry in town: .



Yeah, they haven't made cars in Detroit since the 60's..
All the car dealerships are drug dealerships now.

Whatever..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 1739
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
July 23rd, 2013 at 3:05:24 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob



Whatever..



Exactly
Each day is better than the next
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
July 23rd, 2013 at 5:18:07 PM permalink
The downfall of Detroit started in 1967 with the riots.
They tried to burn down the city and the middle class
fled to the suburbs for the next 5 years. This left
the city with mostly poor people and its been downhill
ever since. I remember the riots, they rioted in my
city too. Downtown, 46 years later, some of those
burned out store fronts have never reopened. What
a brilliant idea those riots were.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
coilman
coilman
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 1159
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
July 23rd, 2013 at 5:50:58 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The downfall of Detroit started in 1967 with the riots.
They tried to burn down the city and the middle class
fled to the suburbs for the next 5 years. This left
the city with mostly poor people and its been downhill
ever since. I remember the riots, they rioted in my
city too. Downtown, 46 years later, some of those
burned out store fronts have never reopened. What
a brilliant idea those riots were.



Trust me there are a LOT of very nice people in Detroit still. People that will help a stranger out just because that's how there are.


Years ago as I headed north on 75 out to Hazel Park racetrack ( with a lot of money in my pocket to wager on a single horse that night) my car blew a rad hose at 5 mile exit. Broken down on the side of 75 a lady about 70 years old stops and asks if I needed a ride, noting my Canadian plates she informs me I wasn't in a very safe area .She gave me a lift to the nearby service station along side the highway where I offered her $20 for the ride but she said no. The guys at the station towed the car in for repair the next day and I asked for them to call me a cab to head back to Windsor . No cab arrived in 40 minutes so one of the fellas from the service station offered me a ride back to Canada... and 15 minutes later I was back in Canada out a total of $25 I gave the fella for the ride .

My uncle a Windsor fireman talks about battling those fires in Detroit during the riots .... crazy times indeed ... little write up from a retire Windsor Fire Chief

Q You’ve had some challenges toward the end of your career in Windsor – a serious injury to a firefighter after a fall from a truck, a sexual harassment case in the department, an 87-vehicle major pile-up in dense fog on the 401 in 1999 that killed eight and injured 33 people. What did you learn from dealing with those issues? What did the department learn?

A My challenges started off in 1967 with the Detroit riots . . .

I started off in my career very early – I joined on July 3, 1967, and on July 27, 1967, a civil disturbance took place in Detroit and the neat thing about that – I still have a picture of my chief of the day, Harold Coxon, who went over with our trucks to the riots and did CPR on a firefighter (Detroit had three firefighters killed). . . . In 1849 the Detroit Fire Department had come over [to Windsor] on a ferry and saved Windsor from destruction [in the Great Fire of Windsor]; Windsor was a village at that time and they had a speaking trumpet made – an ornate one – and donated it to the Detroit Fire Department, and gave it to the chief and said thank you so much . . .

So that’s been in the [Detroit firefighters] museum. After the riots in 1967, after Windsor went over for mutual aid for five days, the Detroit Fire Department, ceremonially, handed the trumpet back to the chief in the middle of the Ambassador Bridge, and said, “You’ve earned it back . . .” We didn’t take it back, because it was a gift . . .

I have that picture in my office, along with the commendation from the city of Detroit. We’re a border town. It’s been like that ever since.
  • Jump to: