teddys
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April 9th, 2012 at 4:53:16 PM permalink
Quote: NicksGamingStuff

CarMax has a BMW z4 for 18k, I wouldnt mind buying that used it has 53,000 miles and the loan would be around 15,000, that might be a better option.

You want a "statement" car; one that will allow you to be seen and is kind of flashy. That's fine. Car is a projection of yourself. I am part of the 50% of the population who doesn't care what kind of car I drive. (For the most part. Not sure if I could see myself in a F-250).

As far as sales techniques, I like the straightforward approach. Here's how I was sold on my last car: Went to the lot to look at cars, expressed interest in one. Salesguy calls me back about four days later, comes right out and LOWERS the price on the car without me prompting him. He probably still had a substantial margin, but that set the hook and I came in and bought it.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Mosca
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April 9th, 2012 at 5:05:17 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

What's APB Track Selling? I'm just interested in the mechanics...

I assume then you are the one guy people negotiate with, and you know what minimum profit margin you need to make the deal worthwhile? (His junker is worth $2k at best, and the new car is worth $11k at worst, I need to show a profit of $1k at least so bet price with be $10k plus trade in, so price car at $12,500, and offer $1,500 for his old car?).

Or is that not how it works?




APB is a script and a set of steps. Four Square is also a script and steps. One evolved from the other. I only remember bits and pieces of the scripts, I haven't used APB since '89, and only knew Four Square for a short while.

Trades are worth what we think we can wholesale/auction them for, ACV; actual cash value. That's a business decision you can't stray from. New cars have a set cost, and a set retail; used cars have a set cost and a retail that is set by guessing. Then it's just a matter of hitting a difference figure both parties can live with. There are nuances, but that's it in a nutshell.
A falling knife has no handle.
AZDuffman
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April 9th, 2012 at 5:18:45 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Its the same with mechanics. My wife always got screwed
by mechanics fixing her car because she's clueless and
believes everything they tell her. Now she goes to my
mechanic and loves the guy to death. He never screws
anybody, will look at your car without charging a fee
and has reasonable prices on everything. My wife even
buys her tires from him, he changes her oil, everything.



Can't be worse that the gal who sat next to me and believed it when I hinted she should tell her boyfriend to ask the shop if the Flux Capacitor on her transmission was causing the problem she was having. I swear it is some kind of gender-hardwire at work. I can't count how many very intelligent women who either don't want to know or are afraid to even try. I mean, you can take a female trauma-ER nurse and try to explain why fuel injection is better than a carb and you get a glazed look and a "whatever."

In a marketing class we studied how a tire company (Firestone IIRC) wanted to market to women. All their research said in effect that if Susan B Anthony were alive she would find a male in her life to go to the tire shop with her. They actually made the ad say, "If a man isn't around, Firestone will be."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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April 9th, 2012 at 5:25:29 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Frankly, that's the kind of stuff salespeople get fired for. I won't say it never happens, but I've never seen it happen. I will say that everywhere I've worked, on the very first day of training, new sales people are told that everyone is a buyer, and they risk their paycheck by assuming otherwise. To succeed in this business you start by assuming that the person in front of you is here to buy a car. If it turns out otherwise, then it won't be because you screwed up at the very beginning.



I agree, but like you said it keeps happening here and there. The way we sell cars in the USA is crazy. Second biggest purcase people make, and most HATE the process. People go in uneducates and fall for all sorts of games. Go in to educate yourself and the salesperson has the attitude "you gonna buy today? If not I have to move on."

My next buy I plan to shop internet only if possible. Then tell the F&I guy I am declining all extras so it is his time to waste presenting it all.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mosca
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April 9th, 2012 at 5:50:27 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I agree, but like you said it keeps happening here and there. The way we sell cars in the USA is crazy. Second biggest purcase people make, and most HATE the process. People go in uneducates and fall for all sorts of games. Go in to educate yourself and the salesperson has the attitude "you gonna buy today? If not I have to move on."

My next buy I plan to shop internet only if possible. Then tell the F&I guy I am declining all extras so it is his time to waste presenting it all.



Yeah, that's cool. I understand. It's hard to find a good place to buy a car, you might never come across one buying a car every few years. Even if you came to me, you might not find a car you like.
A falling knife has no handle.
aluisio
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:00:30 PM permalink
Something I always wanted to ask about people rejecting hybrids: how long do you think it will take for gas prices increase to U$6/gal?
No bounce, no play.
AZDuffman
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:16:15 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Yeah, that's cool. I understand. It's hard to find a good place to buy a car, you might never come across one buying a car every few years. Even if you came to me, you might not find a car you like.



I like trolling the lots, liked it since I was a little kid went with my dad. I just hate the process, the feeling of being penned in the sales desk area. And the inability of dealers to understand, "I'm shopping Hyundai, Ford, Mazda, Subaru, and Kia. When I am done it will be an easy sale. WHEN I AM DONE!" I don't spend $15K in a one-stop shop.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:18:32 PM permalink
Quote: aluisio

Something I always wanted to ask about people rejecting hybrids: how long do you think it will take for gas prices increase to U$6/gal?



It might touch that in a year or two but it will fall back as demand tanks. If we build Keystone XL and bring in oil sands oil along with shale fracking we will be near energy independent between USA/Canada. Natural gas is already 80% below world prices here.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mosca
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:22:49 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Am I the only sucker on this forum who has bought a new car this millenium? I am happy with my 4 wheel drive Subaru Legacy sedan when driving to work in snowy Buffalo at 3am for an emergency. I generally keep my cars 4 to 5 years, and recently have been giving them to whichever kid needs one. I vote for the Honda Civic for Nick.



Naw, I buy new cars, too. I sell all used, but I buy new ones. Actually, I lease them. The numbers work out; if the lease factor is low enough and the residual is high enough, then the sum of the payments is close to the total projected depreciation, which can make leasing a better deal than paying cash. In some cases, the sum of the payments can be less than the depreciation from years 2-4, making leasing a new car a better deal than buying a 1 year old used car (assuming that one trades every 3 years).

I loved my '05 Legacy, it was the most fun-to-drive sedan I've ever owned. When the lease was up I bought it for the residual and gave it to my sister; she still has it, she's way over 100k on it now. Great cars.
A falling knife has no handle.
aluisio
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:23:12 PM permalink
I hope you are right. And by that time I hope my immigration papers to Canada are solved!
In Brazil prices are U$6/gal and we no longer import oil from anyone, it's all extracted/produced here.
No bounce, no play.
weaselman
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:25:08 PM permalink
Quote: aluisio

Something I always wanted to ask about people rejecting hybrids: how long do you think it will take for gas prices increase to U$6/gal?


Who cares? If it takes ~220K miles to make hybrid worth its price an $4/gallon, going up to $6 would make it like 150K. Even if you are devoted enough to keep the car for 13-15 years, the battery won't last that long anyway. And even if it did, this would just be the point at which you break even, not yet saving anything. And even if you keep it for another 5 years to realize some savings, you'll save a whopping $3,000 ... buy spending extra 15K 20 years ago. You would be about 10 times better off simply buying a CD.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
aluisio
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:29:35 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

Who cares? If it takes ~220K miles to make hybrid worth its price an $4/gallon, going up to $6 would make it like 150K. Even if you are devoted enough to keep the car for 13-15 years, the battery won't last that long anyway. And even if it did, this would just be the point at which you break even, not yet saving anything. And even if you keep it for another 5 years to realize some savings, you'll save a whopping $3,000 ... buy spending extra 15K 20 years ago. You would be about 10 times better off simply buying a CD.



I agree with you that in most cases it would not be suitable, but in my specific case it would be worth, I guess. Since my university is 40 miles away from my house and my job requires a lot of travelling... Last year I drove around 50k miles. Perhaps I could consider buying one.
No bounce, no play.
AZDuffman
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:30:23 PM permalink
Quote: aluisio

I hope you are right. And by that time I hope my immigration papers to Canada are solved!
In Brazil prices are U$6/gal and we no longer import oil from anyone, it's all extracted/produced here.



My understanding is that Brazil taxes gasoline heavy to make ethanol more attractive. Don't worry long-term if you make it here as long as the crazies don't shut down extraction. Tar sands in Canada and shale in USA *each* have a Saudi Arabia of oil in them. Maybe more. And that inores all other sources and enhanced recovery methods.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
aluisio
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:35:13 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

My understanding is that Brazil taxes gasoline heavy to make ethanol more attractive. Don't worry long-term if you make it here as long as the crazies don't shut down extraction. Tar sands in Canada and shale in USA *each* have a Saudi Arabia of oil in them. Maybe more. And that inores all other sources and enhanced recovery methods.



You are right about the heavy taxes. The ethanol business in Brazil is such a big deal that there was a kind of effort to sell the technology for you guys to make ethanol from corn.
Thanks for the good news! (At least to me)
No bounce, no play.
weaselman
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:47:20 PM permalink
Quote: aluisio

I agree with you that in most cases it would not be suitable, but in my specific case it would be worth, I guess. Since my university is 40 miles away from my house and my job requires a lot of travelling... Last year I drove around 50k miles. Perhaps I could consider buying one.


Wow, 50k a year? That's like 140 miles every single day!
If that much travel is required by your job, one would think, they should reimburse your expenses, and not just gas, your car is going to be dead within 3-4 years. I don't think buying a hybrid is going to do you much good. It sounds like you need a new job :)
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
aluisio
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April 9th, 2012 at 6:51:04 PM permalink
Oh, I agree about it being a lot. By the way, they pay me $.30/mile drove for gas and general expenses. Of course it's not enough to cover everything but helps.
No bounce, no play.
weaselman
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April 9th, 2012 at 7:05:27 PM permalink
Quote: aluisio

Oh, I agree about it being a lot. By the way, they pay me $.30/mile drove for gas and general expenses. Of course it's not enough to cover everything but helps.


Ah, that's not too bad. If you drove a Civic, at 40 mpg, you would be getting reimbursed $12 per gallon.
Byuing a Prius would get you about $14 per gallon.
More interestingly, 50k per year is exactly $15K in reimbursed money. Driving a Civic at $6/gallon, you would pay $7500 for gas, Prius would take $6000.
So, $1500/year is about how much you are going to save by having a Prius. You'll need about 10 years to make it worth the 15K difference in price. Do you think you are going to be able to put 500,000 miles on that car (and that's just to break even)? And remember that the battery is only warranted for the first 100K ... and they are know to die the next day after warranty expires ...
More importantly, after 2 years of driving a Civic, you will have enough money left from the reimbursement to buy a new car, but with Prius you will only have enough for about half new car in the same period (and the battery will likely dead by then).
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
buzzpaff
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:29:51 PM permalink
" We don't hold the keys to the trade " Damn, that old trick. And the old " This contract was not signed by the right person. We can't let you have the car at that price. We need $300 more. " With the chump's new car just sitting there , all ready to go.

Gee, next you will be telling me there is no extra charge for undercoating. LOL
Mosca
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:43:33 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

And the old " This contract was not signed by the right person. We can't let you have the car at that price. We need $300 more. " With the chump's new car just sitting there , all ready to go.

Gee, next you will be telling me there is no extra charge for undercoating. LOL



I'm not saying that it isn't done, I'm saying that I don't do it. The flip side is that customers keep the crooks in business by buying from them because they undercut the straight dealer by $100. Whatever, that's a fair choice and I accept it for what it is.

I have no interest in defending car dealerships. All I can do is handle my business as I see fit. I've made a life of it, which is all I can ask for.
A falling knife has no handle.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:48:08 PM permalink
Never bought a car from a dealer in my life. Bought one
at a garage sale, though. A low mileage 88 VW Rabbit
from a little old lady. Paid $400 and drove it for 3 years
in the 90's.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
buzzpaff
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:52:50 PM permalink
Hey, I am not defending any of those unscrupulous actions. An honest reputation is more valuable in businesses that have a dishonest reputation. I have carried thousand of dollars for bookies, dealt in high stake 5 stud games, borrowed money from pool hustlers on
just a handshake, put money on the books for guys in prison and always been re-payed. Just because I am known to be honest.
I would not be surprised if that is why you have repeat customers and referrals. TRUE ??
CrystalMath
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April 9th, 2012 at 8:52:54 PM permalink
All you Prius haters have some bad numbers.

At my local Toyota dealership, I can get a brand new Prius for $23,191.

I can also buy a similarly equipped Civic for $19,425.

This doesn't even come close to $15,000 difference. It is actually $3,766.

You don't have to sacrifice much power in the Prius either. It has a horsepower equivalent of 134 vs 140 in the Civic.

The Civic has a combined EPA mileage of 34, while the Prius has 50. This means that you will save a gallon of gas for every 106 miles you drive if you choose the Prius. At a modest 15,000 miles per year, this is 141 gallons. At $3.80 a gallon, this is $536 per year. This means that you will recoup the difference in price in 7 years. At the end of 7 years, your Civic is worth $6,975 and the Prius is worth $9,310. So, you have a $2,335 advantage by buying the Prius.

In CO, the advantage is even more due to tax incentives.
I heart Crystal Math.
weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:09:06 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

All you Prius haters have some bad numbers.

At my local Toyota dealership, I can get a brand new Prius for $23,191.

I can also buy a similarly equipped Civic for $19,425.

This doesn't even come close to $15,000 difference. It is actually $3,766.



My numbers are from kbb.com. It shows $28,895 MSRP ($27,044 invoice) for Prius Four and $16,575 MSRP ($15,341 invoice) for Civic DX.
If your dealer is selling Priuses almost 5 thousand below invoice, while Civics are going for 3K above MSRP ... well, I guess, that should speak for itself :)
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Mosca
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:50:13 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Hey, I am not defending any of those unscrupulous actions.



No problem, I'm used to it. I can't change the world. I can only change one customer at a time, and sometimes only for one deal.

Quote:

I would not be surprised if that is why you have repeat customers and referrals. TRUE ??



I try not to think about it that way, but standing back of course you're right. Generally, I think of my customers as my neighbors, and friends of friends, because they are. I don't want to be in the supermarket and have to run down another aisle, or in the theater and have someone start yammering at me about how I ripped them off. I'd much rather smile and shake hands. Tell the truth, it becomes part of your past. Tell a lie, it becomes part of your future. I'd rather go forward than look back.
A falling knife has no handle.
CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 7:58:00 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

My numbers are from kbb.com. It shows $28,895 MSRP ($27,044 invoice) for Prius Four and $16,575 MSRP ($15,341 invoice) for Civic DX.
If your dealer is selling Priuses almost 5 thousand below invoice, while Civics are going for 3K above MSRP ... well, I guess, that should speak for itself :)



Actually, I'm not trying to skew any numbers. Nick is looking at a Prius Four, which I wouldn't recommend from a financial point of view, because gas mileage isn't going to pay for options, but if you like the options, buy them.

But, let's look at what the Prius Four offers:

Automatic (benefit for many, but I wouldn't care)
Heated front seats
Cruise control
Air Conditioning
JBL stereo system
Sirius radio
Navigation
Bluetooth
Free maintenance for 2yr/25K

Now, lets look at the Civic DX:

Manual Transmission
No cruise control
No heated seats
No Air Conditioning (in Vegas??)
No Stereo
No Navigation
No Bluetooth
No free maintenance

Instead of comparing two wildly different vehicles, I looked at real prices offered by real dealerships in Denver on two similarly equiped vehicles.
I heart Crystal Math.
Wavy70
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April 10th, 2012 at 8:42:01 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Actually, I'm not trying to skew any numbers. Nick is looking at a Prius Four, which I wouldn't recommend from a financial point of view, because gas mileage isn't going to pay for options, but if you like the options, buy them.

But, let's look at what the Prius Four offers:

Automatic (benefit for many, but I wouldn't care)
Heated front seats
Cruise control
Air Conditioning
JBL stereo system
Sirius radio
Navigation
Bluetooth
Free maintenance for 2yr/25K

Now, lets look at the Civic DX:

Manual Transmission
No cruise control
No heated seats
No Air Conditioning (in Vegas??)
No Stereo
No Navigation
No Bluetooth
No free maintenance

Instead of comparing two wildly different vehicles, I looked at real prices offered by real dealerships in Denver on two similarly equiped vehicles.



Crystal you are fighting an uphill battle. This Prius convo has popped up before and the same few folks who are in a dearth of facts seem to have all the stats on the Prius. One poster just rages about the environment and hippies no matter the topic so that saves time in reading.

The Prius is a great car. Had mine for 3 years so far w little to no maintenance. I change the oil every 8k and it usually doesn't need. I also read on these posts that Toyota is no longer the "car they once were". Odd I have a hard time finding any reference to that.

The only Prius going for 35k is the loaded plug in model. Save the extra money and get the regular one. In 5 years that model will be priced in line with other cars as the technology becomes more widespread.

But I must say it is always nice to hear from a select few who have no experience with the car trash it. If these same folks were alive 100 years ago (I think some were) we would be tying our texts to a pigeon.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 9:27:32 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath


Instead of comparing two wildly different vehicles, I looked at real prices offered by real dealerships in Denver on two similarly equiped vehicles.



All right, granted.
So, let's look at your comparison then.

Quote: CrystalMath


The Civic has a combined EPA mileage of 34, while the Prius has 50. This means that you will save a gallon of gas for every 106 miles you drive if you choose the Prius. At a modest 15,000 miles per year, this is 141 gallons. At $3.80 a gallon, this is $536 per year. This means that you will recoup the difference in price in 7 years. At the end of 7 years, your Civic is worth $6,975 and the Prius is worth $9,310. So, you have a $2,335 advantage by buying the Prius.



So, it looks like you pay about $4,000 upfront, get it back in 7 years, without interest or any other benefit whatsoever ... and call it a good deal.
And the difference in the residual price does not matter - you'd need to put up more money if you sell your Prius to buy a new one then to do the same with a Civic.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
thecesspit
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April 10th, 2012 at 9:29:52 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Trades are worth what we think we can wholesale/auction them for, ACV; actual cash value. That's a business decision you can't stray from. New cars have a set cost, and a set retail; used cars have a set cost and a retail that is set by guessing. Then it's just a matter of hitting a difference figure both parties can live with. There are nuances, but that's it in a nutshell.



Cheers, I appreciate you sharing. I'll recall what you said next time I am shopping around, will help me decide who I want to deal with. There's at least one "sleazy" chain of used car sales in town from my past experiences.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
buzzpaff
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April 10th, 2012 at 9:39:30 AM permalink
Used to finances my trips from San Antonio to Nueva Laredo by selling trade-in clunkers to other airman at Lackland AFB.
Good deal for everybody, the used car salesman got more than scrap value, guys got a running vehicle, and I got laid. LOL
CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 10:31:55 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman


So, it looks like you pay about $4,000 upfront, get it back in 7 years, without interest or any other benefit whatsoever ... and call it a good deal.



If you can invest that $4,000 at 2%, your opportunity cost is $391 over 5 years. At 4%, it is $815. This is far less than the difference in residual values of the cars after 5 years, as the Prius is worth about $2,300 more than the Civic. This assumes that you pay cash for the cars.

If you finance the entire price of the vehicle at 3%, gas costs $3.80, you drive 15k miles per year, and you can invest your money at 2%, then the difference in overall cost is pretty small, about $850 over 5 years since you will pay more interest on the Prius and you can earn a small amount by investing the difference in the monthly costs.

The savings increase if you drive more, if you keep the car longer, or if gas prices rise.

I don't personally recommend a Prius if someone will only drive 15k miles per year. But, I also want to show that the Prius can be a viable choice and is a better choice financially for some people.

I also don't recommend buying new and I would never recommend anything higher than a base Prius; it has everything I need.
I heart Crystal Math.
weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 10:51:01 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

If you can invest that $4,000 at 2%, your opportunity cost is $391 over 5 years.


$416 actually. But we were talking about 7 years (that it takes to break even with Prius vs. Civic), not five. In 7 years, it is $594. These days, you can get a 2.25% CD for $674 in interest over 7 years.


Quote:

This is far less than the difference in residual values of the cars after 5 years, as the Prius is worth about $2,300 more than the Civic.


But that does not matter - if you wanted to sell your Prius and buy a new one, you'd still need more money than you would if you had Civic, and wanted to swap it for a new one.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
SOOPOO
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April 10th, 2012 at 11:45:21 AM permalink
What are the odds of a mortal injury in an accident if you are in a Prius compared to a Subaru Legacy, or Volkswagen Jetta? Amazing that people are discussing a few hundred dollars over 7 years and not a soul has mentioned safety. My younger son was in a car accident, broadsided, and fortunately only had minor injuries. He was in a rich friend's Hummer. If he was in a poor friend's Prius he would probably be dead. (I saw the pictures of the Hummer).
CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 12:00:00 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

$416 actually. But we were talking about 7 years (that it takes to break even with Prius vs. Civic), not five. In 7 years, it is $594. These days, you can get a 2.25% CD for $674 in interest over 7 years.


OK. I adjusted my numbers and we are now approaching a fair comparison.

Assuming you pay cash for the car, can get 2.25% interest, keep the car for 7 years, drive 15k miles a year, get 50 mpg Prius and 34 mpg Civic, then you will save $1997 by buying the Prius.

If you finance the car, the savings decrease because of the higher interest paid on the Prius, but you still save about $1863 over 7 years.

Quote: weaselman

But that does not matter - if you wanted to sell your Prius and buy a new one, you'd still need more money than you would if you had Civic, and wanted to swap it for a new one.



It matters if you get a new car. If you keep the cars, the Prius will continue to save you money on gas. If you sell them and buy new cars, then the price of the new Prius will be much closer to the price of the new Civic, making the savings even better, since you will have less opportunity cost.

All in all, $2000 over 7 years means almost nothing. Buy the Prius if you like it; buy the Civic if you like it. If you drive more than 15k miles or think gas prices will go up, maybe the balance will tip in the way of the Prius. Just don't say that the Prius is only for tree huggers who are bad at math.
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buzzpaff
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April 10th, 2012 at 12:00:18 PM permalink
I owned a Corvair many, many years ago. Sold it after driving from San Antonio to Corpus Christi. And one of them Texas winds blew me from one lane to the other.
weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 12:35:39 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Assuming you pay cash for the car, can get 2.25% interest, keep the car for 7 years, drive 15k miles a year, get 50 mpg Prius and 34 mpg Civic, then you will save $1997 by buying the Prius.



What? No. If you get Prius instead of a Civic, you'll have $600 less after 7 years.
You could do much better than 2.25% BTW, for example, pay off your mortgage ...

Quote:

It matters if you get a new car. If you keep the cars,


If you keep the cars, then it does not matter what they cost, because you are not going to see any of that money.
Still down $600.

Quote:

the Prius will continue to save you money on gas.


Yeah ... after you replace the battery, which can easily cost you another 5-6 years of saving on gas :)


Quote:

If you sell them and buy new cars, then the price of the new Prius will be much closer to the price of the new Civic,


Well ... if we are going to make predictions about the future now, then, maybe you should consider investing those $4000 into stock market and making 7% per year instead of measly 2.25%? :)

Quote:

Just don't say that the Prius is only for tree huggers who are bad at math.


I never said that. I just said it is for tree huggers :) (and there is nothing wrong with being a tree hugger ... just don't say there are economical reasons for buying a hybrid).
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AcesAndEights
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April 10th, 2012 at 1:02:12 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Hey, I am not defending any of those unscrupulous actions. An honest reputation is more valuable in businesses that have a dishonest reputation. I have carried thousand of dollars for bookies, dealt in high stake 5 stud games, borrowed money from pool hustlers on
just a handshake, put money on the books for guys in prison and always been re-payed. Just because I am known to be honest.
I would not be surprised if that is why you have repeat customers and referrals. TRUE ??


Mr. buzzpaff, I would read a book about your life. I feel like I could learn a lot from your experiences.
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NicksGamingStuff
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April 10th, 2012 at 1:41:24 PM permalink
One thing that occurred to me is that instead of spending $30k for a new car I could spend 40k on a condo. Seems like a better purchase. I do not need a lot of space, but something bigger than my small apartment. I know about condo fees and stuff, but it still might be better for me than a house.
Wavy70
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April 10th, 2012 at 2:57:19 PM permalink
Weasel why would it cost me money if at 7 years I need to replace my batteries? Since they are covered for 10 years I hope mine crap out at 7 years.
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Wavy70
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April 10th, 2012 at 3:04:17 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

What are the odds of a mortal injury in an accident if you are in a Prius compared to a Subaru Legacy, or Volkswagen Jetta? Amazing that people are discussing a few hundred dollars over 7 years and not a soul has mentioned safety. My younger son was in a car accident, broadsided, and fortunately only had minor injuries. He was in a rich friend's Hummer. If he was in a poor friend's Prius he would probably be dead. (I saw the pictures of the Hummer).



According to the IIHS the Prius is ranked just below the Legacy and above the Jetta. But if we are talking about a wreck with a real Hummer not many cars would fair well.
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weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 4:02:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

Weasel why would it cost me money if at 7 years I need to replace my batteries? Since they are covered for 10 years I hope mine crap out at 7 years.


I heard, that they are covered for 8 years or 100K miles. Driving 15k per year, you'd be just out of warranty by the end of the 7th year, if I am not mistaken.
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CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 4:34:23 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I heard, that they are covered for 8 years or 100K miles. Driving 15k per year, you'd be just out of warranty by the end of the 7th year, if I am not mistaken.



This is true, except in CA, where the warranty is 10 years or 150K miles. Since my car was originally sold in CA, that's the warranty that I have.

I read that there has been a 0.003% replacement rate on Gen-2 Priuses out of warranty. Not too bad, but that number could go way up as these Priuses age more.
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P90
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April 10th, 2012 at 4:34:34 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

What are the odds of a mortal injury in an accident if you are in a Prius compared to a Subaru Legacy, or Volkswagen Jetta? Amazing that people are discussing a few hundred dollars over 7 years and not a soul has mentioned safety. My younger son was in a car accident, broadsided, and fortunately only had minor injuries. He was in a rich friend's Hummer. If he was in a poor friend's Prius he would probably be dead. (I saw the pictures of the Hummer).


While a Hummer will almost always do better than the other car in a collision between the two, it's not as much a testament to Hummer's safety as to the amount of damage it can do to lighter vehicles. Lacking crumple zones, such vehicles absorb very little impact energy; as a downside, it makes them fare poorly in single-vehicle accidents.

(For the sake of hyperbole, imagine a vehicle fitted with cartoon circular saws on all sides. It won't be any safer, but will appear so when you look at comparisons with what happened to the other car.)
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CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 4:35:05 PM permalink
Quote: NicksGamingStuff

One thing that occurred to me is that instead of spending $30k for a new car I could spend 40k on a condo. Seems like a better purchase. I do not need a lot of space, but something bigger than my small apartment. I know about condo fees and stuff, but it still might be better for me than a house.



Bingo!
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weaselman
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April 10th, 2012 at 5:47:28 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

This is true, except in CA, where the warranty is 10 years or 150K miles. Since my car was originally sold in CA, that's the warranty that I have.

I read that there has been a 0.003% replacement rate on Gen-2 Priuses out of warranty. Not too bad, but that number could go way up as these Priuses age more.



A quick google search for "prius battery replacement rate" brings up an article quoting that exact number and dated May 29, 2008.
It also says that second generation Priuses first became available in 2004, which means, that by 2008 there were barely any cars that were out of warranty to begin with, even outside of California. Taking that into consideration, the rate does not seem that small any more ...
I find it particularly interesting BTW, how they specifically quote the "out-of-warranty rate", without any mention of the total replacement rate anywhere :)
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Wavy70
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:44:41 PM permalink
For my Prius the warranty is ... 15-year/150,000-mile Hybrid-related Component Coverage (applicable states are: CA, MA, NY, NJ, VT, CT, ME, NM and RI) with the exception of the hybrid battery. The hybrid battery is warranted for 10 years/150,000 miles.
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CrystalMath
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April 10th, 2012 at 6:56:30 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman


I find it particularly interesting BTW, how they specifically quote the "out-of-warranty rate", without any mention of the total replacement rate anywhere :)



I agree. Sounds deceptive.
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