Im thinking about buying a 2012 Prius 4

Does anyone have any experience with Prius? The 2012 prius 4 seems nice, I do almost all city driving so it seems like a good option. I got a finance offer from Capital one for 3% up to 35,000 which seems good for someone who is 26. My target loan is around 25 which I should get with my car's trade in (KBB says 4-5 dealer trade in so I figure the dealer will give me 3) My car needs a new catalytic converter, has 114,000 miles and some dents and a broken foglight. I was told getting the Catalytic converter fixed would be over 1,000 for an all state emissions or a little less for a NV one. I am nervous about making the financial commitment. It is not that I cannot afford the payments; I am working 48 hours a week+ and have paid off almost all my cc debt, it is the fact that the dealer job is a very unstable business and I never know if each day I come in will be my last. Unlike other jobs that have some kind of security to them a dealer does not, they can be out the door for any little slip up or if the boss is tired of seeing them. Anyway if anyone has any thoughts on this, or the Prius it self let me know. Thanks!

Don't.

First, dont buy Prius. 40% or so of the price of Prius is the price of the show off. So that, when you drive down the street everybody knows that you "care". You can have a Civic for about 15K less money. Think about it - a better, more powerful, more comfortable car for about twice less money. 15 thousand dollars is about 3500 gallons of gas. Prius does about 50 mpg in the city, Civic does 28. You would need to drive about 222000 miles (in the city) before your decision to buy Prius is economically sensible.

Second, don't buy a new car. It does not make any sense at all. You lose at least 20% of your investment as soon as you drive off the dealer's parking lot. Find a private deal for a 2-3 years old car (and when I say "car", I mean "Honda" :) but you might consider some Toyotas too. Corolla is pretty good for instance, albeit a bit overpriced when new, but it loses its value faster than Hondas, so, by the third year, it should even out), and save half of the money. Think about it - instead of spending ~30K, you could have pretty much the same value for about 10,000, maybe, even 7K, if you are not in a hurry, and take your time to look for a good deal. And it will be a better car.

Third, don't get a car loan, if you can help it at all. Not in this economy. It makes totally no sense. 3% is not a lot, but it seems like you still have some credit card debt. You'll be way better off if you buy a crappy car that you can afford, and use the money you save on that to pay off your credit cards as soon as you can.

I kinda agree with Weaselman in that you can do better by buying a slightly used car. Of course towards the end of his post he is suggesting a crappy car, which I would avoid. On the other hand, I thing there are huge tax advantages to the Prius which may negate some of Weasel's argument.

I understand that dealer jobs are unstable, but you're young, likeable and persaonable. I don't see you getting fired unless you totally screw up, and I don't see that happening.

weaselman's advice is excellent. I agree with all 3 points.

Don't do it.

The other posters are mostly spot-on. The Prius is a car for math-challenged envrionmentalists. To save money takes 100,000+ miles and that is with gas at over $4. Second, Toyota is not what they were in the past. Their quality has fallen to average. IMHO they are overpriced because people think "Toyota, must be a great car!" Not that it matters, but their average buyer is aging fast so don't expect a "hip" image if you care for that.

IOW, Toyota has become what Buick was in 1980.

Next, $35,000 is way above what you should be buying on a dealer salary. You are not going to want to keep working 48 hours a week to afford that car, if you do you are going to hate the sight of it in 3 years, with 2-3 years left to pay it off. I used to be in auto loans and believe me, you do not want to be burried. I've seen the results, and the results are people who are one flat tire away from financial disaster.

My personal guide is to try to keep your total outaly for the car at no more than 50% of your expected pretax earnings for the year. So if you make $40,000 then spend no more than $20,000. Yes, this means I feel most of the USA is buying cars they cannot afford. Do not, ever, go over 60 months for a car loan. 48 is even better. And always, ALWAYS be sure you have "gap coverage" on your loan or insurance. ALWAYS have it. Did I say ALWAYS?

As to car to get, if you want to buy new let me suggest a Hyundai. The new Accent is getting good reviews. My 2005 has required about $150 in repairs over and above oil changes--2 light bulbs, 1 brake rotor (my fault), 1 caliper, and several sets of brake pads. I mostly do my own work, but you get the point. 100,000 mile warranty. Great cars, though the non-transferrable warranty means resale value falls fast. If you run the wheels off your cars this matters not.

3% is a pretty good rate, DO NOT use the whole $35K. The "approved number" is set way higher than what you should buy. Buy within your budget, new or used.

And did I mention always get gap coverage for your loan??

I agree with everything, EXCEPT:

Just like gambling, buying a car is not just an economic decision. It is also an emotional one.

IF doing as the others say is what makes you FEEL most satisfied, then that is what you should do.

HOWEVER, otherwise pick the car you like the most and get the best deal you can, from the person/dealership that you feel most comfortable working with.

Reason? There is no such thing as a good deal on a Honda if you don't like Hondas.

Quote: AZDuffman

The other posters are mostly spot-on. The Prius is a car for math-challenged envrionmentalists.

3% is a pretty good rate, DO NOT use the whole $35K. The "approved number" is set way higher than what you should buy. Buy within your budget, new or used.

And did I mention always get gap coverage for your loan??

If you drive 15,000 miles and you get 50 mpg then you will use 300 gallons in a year.
If you drive 15,000 miles and you get 30 mpg then you will use 500 gallons in a year.

Now the savings of 200 gallons per year will be less than $800 per year. A very expensive Prius will lose many times that amount in depreciation.

Also 200 gallons a year in gasoline is equivalent to roughly 650-700 killowatt hours of electricity per month.

What people are saying is that a wealthy man in a big house that consumes thousand of kilowatt hours of electricity more than you do, can afford the massive loss in value of a Prius to help the environment. For someone your age and income, it would be better to drive an economical gasoline car.

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint, then be economical about your electric consumption or turn your heat down.

I agree with the rest of the gang, especially AZ. If your income is 40K and you can get a loan at 3%, what percentage of your salary are you willing to pay?

You bring home $2740 / month after taxes and FICA/SSI. A loan of 20K for a car over 48 months will be $443/month, 25K $553/month, and $775/month for $35K ($629 for 60 months) . Insurance will be, what $70 / month? (and rises with the value of the car). And then there's gas which, at $4/gallon, assuming the economy doesn't go completely off the tracks, which will cost you $160/1000 miles assuming 25 miles per gallon.

So, for every $1,000 of car you buy, you pay an extra $22/month in payments over 48 months.

I'd go for practicality of course. Yeah, you gotta make some kind of statement with your car -- most people do make a statement, but if you want to go environmentally sensitive, go for something small with very high mileage, like a Civic or the Hyundai.

One thing is absolutely certain. The moment they see you driving that car to work, surveillance will be ordered to train their cameras on you to find out where you are getting that excess money. If they find anything wrong, you will be out the door. If they don't find anything wrong, they may get frustrated and you will soon be out the door.

Its too much debt for you to assume and its unwise to park such a car in the employee parking lot while you work.

Another vote for a slightly used, efficient 4 cylinder compact car.

I purchased a used 2003 Cavalier in July 03 with 11K miles. It was 8100 after TTL and after financing for 5 years (first car purchase at age 23, so not the best rate) I paid 9600 total. I still drive it to this day with nearly 115K miles and minimal fuss as well as super low cost liability only insurance. I average around 27-28 MPG driving mostly city, and get well over 30 on highway trips.

To me, a car is the last thing I want to be spending money on. It's just something to get me from point A to B while not burning a barrel of oil daily to do so. I actually fear the fact I will never get such a great deal on a low mileage used car again, as cars these days are getting way too expensive and it's hard to find one with no power windows, etc.

To expand on Paco's comment:

Most of Las Vegas' energy comes from Natural Gas (3.9 GW) with 557 MW being coal.

The carbon intensity of Natural gas is 818 pounds CO2 / MWH whereas coal is 1854.6 pounds / MWH.

A gallon of gas has about 33.4 kwH of energy and produces about 20 pounds of CO2 when burned.

A typical home in Nevada burns about 12.7 MWH of electricity per year or about 12,060 pounds of CO2 given the electricity production mix of sourthern Nevada.

You probably don't use nearly as much as you are single and probably live in a pretty small place.

So, for every 100 miles you drive, you produce about 80 pounds of CO2 at 25mpg.

If you cut your energy usage at home by 10%, that is about 1,500 miles of driving at 25mpg. It's also 7,500 miles of driving at a difference of 5mpg.

Buy a Studebaker. You'll never have to worry about a catalytic converter again.

114K isn't a lot of miles. If you can't get 200K
out of a modern car, somethings wrong with
you. I know plenty of people who have 300K
on older cars. My brother in law got
450K out of a Nissan truck.

I have a stable job with a good (not great salary) and won't be dropping 35k on a car any time soon. I run a 4K (which does cost more to maintain than it should but that's due to the choice of car). My next car will probably be around 8-10k, paid for in cash (I make a loan to myself) and trade in.

Go for a decent, second-hand (pre-owned, lightly used, whatever they call it) well within your means. Or drop the 1k on repairs on the car you know the problems it may have. There's no saying a 35k new car will not be a bust, or annoy you, or get dinged up in a year by accident.

There's plenty of choices for half that prices that are almost as economical (The Cruze has great reviews, for example) if you MUST go new.

The only people I know who buy Prius's are the taxi company's in town. They probably do close to the yearly mileage on them to make the hybrid choice worth considering.

I have a 2007 Prius, and it was a good buy.

But... I bought it used in 2010 and missed out on a great deal of depreciation. It had 35,000 miles on it and I paid $14,500 plus about $1000 to extend the warranty to 7yr/100K.

Since I've had it, I have averaged 2050 miles per month. So, in gas alone, based on an average of $3/gallon, I have saved about $185 per month over my car I replaced, which got 20 mpg and needed about 3k in repairs. If I keep it for 5 years (I'm planning on more), the gas saving amounts to $11070.

Being in Colorado, we get a great hybrid tax credit also. I got a tax credit of $2476. Granted, you can't get a credit on most used Priuses, but my Prius came from out of state, so I was still able to get the credit.

These savings combined are $13546. Of course, this increases with the gas prices.

If I were looking at other comparable vehicles to replace my old one, I could have found many choices at 30mpg. At my usage, the gas savings between the Prius and any other 30mpg car would be $4920. That, combined with the tax credit I got, means that a Prius saved me $7396. This means that I would have had to buy a 3 yr old civic with 35,000 miles for $7104 ($14,500 - $7396) to break even over 5 years. According to Kelly Blue Book, this isn't possible, and I would be looking at about $13,400.

My wife has a 15 year old Pontiac. She gets it fixed when
something goes wrong. She keeps every receipt that has
to do with the car, no matter for what. She says the amount
she spends a year, even with repairs like new air, is small
on a monthly basis compared to a car payment. My daughter
just turned 240K on a 2000 Honda and will drive it till the
wheels fall off. Modern cars will last a long time if you take
care of them.

Quote: thecesspit

Go for a decent, second-hand (pre-owned, lightly used, whatever they call it) well within your means. Or drop the 1k on repairs on the car you know the problems it may have. There's no saying a 35k new car will not be a bust, or annoy you, or get dinged up in a year by accident.

There's plenty of choices for half that prices that are almost as economical (The Cruze has great reviews, for example) if you MUST go new.

The only people I know who buy Prius's are the taxi company's in town. They probably do close to the yearly mileage on them to make the hybrid choice worth considering.

A caveat to this---avoid the "Buy Here Pay Here" lot at all costs!

Prices are inflated and the payments you make will NOT be reported to the credit bureaus.

Basically the "down" payment is the cost of the car at auction. The payments are pure juice to the lot. (Not that there is anything wrong withj profit.) Over half of the vehicles get taken back on repo. Say $1,000 to repo/clean/fix them then they do it all again.

They are for people with no other choice. I was talking to the owner of a few of them at a party a few weeks ago, we exchanged some war stories about stuck buyers.

Quote: AZDuffman

Basically the "down" payment is the cost of the car at auction.

Speaking of auctions, I've bought several good cars at them.
Look for cars with manual transmissions and manual windows.
People hate shifting and they especially hate not having power
windows. I bought a 4 year old car like that in the 90's for $1500
and it had 38K miles on it. It bluebooked for $8K and nobody
wanted it because it had a 4 speed manual.

I bought my PT Cruiser on eBay. It couldn't hurt to look there. eBay is good for buying cars, not so much for selling.

Quote: AZDuffman

A caveat to this---avoid the "Buy Here Pay Here" lot at all costs!

Prices are inflated and the payments you make will NOT be reported to the credit bureaus.

Basically the "down" payment is the cost of the car at auction. The payments are pure juice to the lot. (Not that there is anything wrong withj profit.) Over half of the vehicles get taken back on repo. Say $1,000 to repo/clean/fix them then they do it all again.

They are for people with no other choice. I was talking to the owner of a few of them at a party a few weeks ago, we exchanged some war stories about stuck buyers.

BHPH provides a service that is not the car; it is the ability to actually get the car. If you have that ability already, then the BHPH lot is not for you. Loss rates on those cars are astronomical, completely justifying the cost of both the car and the credit.

I'm no true car or car-buying expert Nick, but I'm only a little older than you and I've been in the market for a good car and will be again soon. I read multiple car magazines and websites, do all my own work on both my cars, and have had the good sense and good fortune to buy the cars I've owned under the money.

The advice you're getting above is good. Here's some more:

*There is no reason to buy a Prius if the status doesn't do anything for you. None. The car is fine, but it's essentially the performance, size, and features of a car two classes down from its pricetag.

*There's no financial reason to buy a new car. No one even need know the 15,000-35,000 top quality used car you buy wasn't purchased new. Cars are very reliable these days.

*There's no reason to go from a $3,000 used car to a $30,000 new car. You will not get 10x the utility from having the more expensive item. The fact that you've managed to drive your current car despite it not being in perfect shape and the fact that you drive in the city both suggest that cars are something of an appliance to you. That's true for most people and it's a good thing - appliance cars are cheap to operate and don't give you trouble.

Here are some solutions for you at various price points. If you tell me more about your budget, needs, and likes/dislikes I can give you more specific recommendations.

1) Set aside ~20% of your planned Prius payment and use it to keep your car on the road. Unless you've trashed it ~110,000 miles is nothing. You should be able to keep it running to 150,000 easy and for cheap, and you won't be depreciating heavily while those 40k miles are going on.

2) Buy a depreciation-happy used car for ~$5,000. My favorites are midsize domestic cars. Tauruses (especially), Malibus, stuff like that. Or Korean cars, Sonatas or Optimas. There's no greater collection of perfect condition cheap to operate 40,000 mile cars for cheap. I wouldn't buy a used Taurus if I only bought a car every 200,000 miles, but for the money you're getting decent engineering and low status, which is what you want.

3) If you like a predictable payment buy a used Honda Fit. Hell, get the extended warranty before you buy a new Prius. The Fit is an almost perfect appliance car. Reliable, spacious inside, small outside, cheap to run, and fun to drive for what it is. Yes they hold their value so they're not that cheap. But cost of ownership is a lot &#^@ lower than a new Prius :)

4) If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket buy a 2006-2008 Acura TSX. As a car guy I love the sharp handling and terrific manual transmission, but a non car guy will love the standard equipment, Honda reliability, and shiny luxury badge ;)

Quote: s2dbaker

I bought my PT Cruiser on eBay. It couldn't hurt to look there. eBay is good for buying cars, not so much for selling.

Just remember never, ever send money to somebody not local. eBay is mostly OK, but CraigsList is the wild west in that regard.

Remember, there is no shortage of cars to choose from. What there is a shortage of is people with patience to keep looking for a deal.

I don't see why people buy these cars. They do not save you money. When it's time to buy a new battery, you will likely find that you are quickly spending more money than you saved in gas for the new power cells. Not to mention the cars are not environmentally friendly.

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I do not care about the environmental status of a prius, I just wanted to spend less on gas. But that is true about the Prius batteries, I hear they are very expensive. All the catalytic converter does is pass smog and there is a way to get it to pass, reset the battery so the check engine light goes off drive it for about 100 miles. The computer doesn't recognize it as bad for about 500 and it will pass smog. Nevada does have lower emissions standards so I could get a cheaper catalytic converter if I had to. I did have cold feet about it and everyone on here is confirming my reasons. As for working the 48 hours a week I do not have much choice, I am lucky I am getting so many hours as a dealer and am trying to pay off the cc debt (will be all paid off by june) and then I can just save the money because like I said it is an unstable business and I never know if each day is my last.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

it is an unstable business and I never know if each day is my last.

ALWAYS remember this no matter where you are. Like I told the board here last month, my last company went from plans to open 2 new satellite offices in December to a record month in January (handed us all kinds of logoed swag the whole time) to laying off 50% of the staff by late February!

I'm late to the party but echo all the very intelligent advice given so far. I'm glad the collective wisdom of the forum has chilled your feet even further.

Just to add to the conversation, I currently drive a '99 2-door Civic for which I paid cash in 2006. It's still running fine, but due to an unfortunate thieving/wrecking incident, I had to sink about 2K into it a year and a half ago, and I have a feeling it's not going to last as long as it should. (The car thieves ran it over a curb or something on a joyride, completely jacked up the suspension and other stuff).

For my next car I'm probably going to buy one of the new VW bugs (not the NEW new ones, the 1998-2010 model). This is where it becomes a somewhat emotional decision. I'm going to pay more money than buying another Honda/Toyota/etc. for the novelty, but I really, really, REALLY want one of those cars. I've been coveting them since I was in high school. But I'm not going to buy it brand new (impossible since they have stopped making them), and I'm not in a hurry so I can wait around for a somewhat decent deal.

Late to the post but

Buy a diesel VW. Manual shift and windows (1998 to 2005) 35mpg city, well over 50mpg highway (the further you drive, the better).
Mine's something like 35/55, long trips up to 58mpg. So what the fuel costs 30c more.

Don't by an VW Golf/Jetta in that era. They had a history of transmission problems in the US version, and the windows are also prone to failure.

(I loved my 1996 Diesel Golf, and I suspect my next car will be a 2006/7 diesel golf).

(see lemonaid and other review type sites).

If the prius isnt worth it maybe I should buy a Miata, its about the same price although 1/2 the mileage.

Miatas are good cars, lots of fun. I've had mine (a '97, bought it used) for 12 years.

My advice on buying a car you actually like stands. If you don't like the car, then the deal, the cost to own, all that stuff doesn't matter. There is a wide range of choices. Find one that is comfortable, one where the controls are where you expect them to be, that you can see well out of, that the pedals and steering inputs respond the way you want or expect them to. Then make the best deal on it that you can.

A car you like that costs more per year is a better deal than a cheap car that you hate.

Has what everybody else said convinced you yet? I hope so.

DO NOT buy a Prius. It is not worth it.

DO NOT buy a new car. Got to be one of the biggest scams on planet earth, compounded by the marketing manufacturers/dealers bombard you with.

DO buy a used car at a reasonable price. It can be (should be) something that makes you happy. I bought a used Ford Focus and it is one of the most boring cars in the universe. I don't enjoy driving it. That said, it has made me drive less than I usually do, which is a good thing. It is important to separate the emotional/practical side of driving.

I would also recommend looking at off-rentals/off-leases. These are often good deals.

I'm going to tell this story again for Nicks education.

I know a lady in her 70's worth over 20mil dollars.

She can afford any car on the planet.

Every two years she buys a two year old car.

She's done it for decades. She crunched the numbers
and found a low mileage two year old car will give
her few problems and still have a good trade in value
when its four years old.

Wealthy people are often very smart with money,
thats how they got to be wealthy.

She always bought fully loaded Oldsmobile station
wagons. She would have a seat cover put on the
front bench seat and heavy floor mats installed.
The back seats were always in the down position.

When she turned it in two years later, it was exactly
as she bought it. The dealership loved her.

Quote: teddys

DO NOT buy a new car. Got to be one of the biggest scams on planet earth, compounded by the marketing manufacturers/dealers bombard you with.

But if no one ever bought a new car, wouldn't we run out of used cars eventually?

Quote: Nareed

But if no one ever bought a new car, wouldn't we run out of used cars eventually?

If everybody learned how to gamble correctly,
wouldn't the casinos have to close? Never gonna
happen.

Quote: Nareed

But if no one ever bought a new car, wouldn't we run out of used cars eventually?

Ah, Nareed the wise.

Not everyone cares about the numbers, and not caring about the numbers does not make one stupid. What works for one makes no sense at all for another.

You know how I often say, "If I wanted to make money, I'd have gone to work instead of the casino"? This is how I make my living. I've been in retail automotive for 27 years now.

Find a car you like, and get the best deal you can on it. There is no other advice. Everything else is some other guy's idea of what you should do.

Personally, I've bought new, I've bought used, I've financed, leased, and paid cash. All choices are just "happiness tools". Do what makes you happy.

Here, I just stood up and took a shot from my office.

Honda Civic. Period.

Quote: midwestgb

Honda Civic. Period.

I hate Hondas. They're great cars, but I don't like anything about them. They're uncomfortable for me, they don't "feel" right. And Civics are too small for me.

See? What you like isn't what I like.

This is some good information for the debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/04/business/the-cost-of-higher-fuel-economy.html?ref=energy-environment

I sold used cars on weekends while in the milirary in the 60's. Are things still the same, Mosca ? When you see Daddy getting out of his car, with Mommy and kids in tow, is there a mad rush for the door? Because Daddy is there to BUY !!!!

Quote: Nareed

But if no one ever bought a new car, wouldn't we run out of used cars eventually?

That's not my problem :)

Quote: kmumf

This is some good information for the debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/04/business/the-cost-of-higher-fuel-economy.html?ref=energy-environment

Broken link.

Here, I fixed it for you.

Quote: buzzpaff

I sold used cars on weekends while in the milirary in the 60's. Are things still the same, Mosca ? When you see Daddy getting out of his car, with Mommy and kids in tow, is there a mad rush for the door? Because Daddy is there to BUY !!!!

Not really, things have changed a lot since I started in '86. I've seen probably 3 or 4 real changes. But it's a big industry, with lots of dealerships, and there are still way, way too many cheaters and liars and scumbags for me to make any statement at all about it that would be valid advice on a personal level, that someone could actually use.

Other than what I've already said: Find a car that you like, and get the best deal you can from a person or place that you feel comfortable with. That's not saying that any other advice is wrong; if Nick's priorities are the same as that advice, then that advice will work. If crunching the cost/time numbers is what makes you happy, and you wind up with a 2006 Accent stick/cranks/no air, and you like it, that's great. And I sell all of those I can get. But I also sell Grand Cherokees. All of them I can get. A guy wants an SUV, you don't say, "That wouldn't be a good idea, if you figure the gas..." You learn pretty early that the secret to selling is getting out of the way and letting the customer buy. Or you bounce from dealership to dealership, and wind up working with the cheaters and liars and scumbags. Or you decide it's not what you want to do, selling cars isn't an easy way to make a living. If it were, everyone would want to do it.

Do you do the the thing with the four squares :

http://consumerist.com/2007/03/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it.html

How true is all that article?

Quote: buzzpaff

I sold used cars on weekends while in the milirary in the 60's. Are things still the same, Mosca ? When you see Daddy getting out of his car, with Mommy and kids in tow, is there a mad rush for the door? Because Daddy is there to BUY !!!!

From what I have heard the biggest mistake salespeople make is not properly treating women that walk on the lot. One told me the sales rep took her for a "test-ride" and would not even let her drive. This was just a basic car and not some Corvette where you need to check insurance and such first. The rest of her treatment was so bad she left. Someone high up called to find out why she didn't buy and he offered her some top-salesperson and a load of appologies. But she was not the only story like this I heard.

I have heard so many I tell women to take along a husband, boyfriend, brother, father, or male friend along. The guy doesn't even need to say much, just be there. It is a sad state, and female salespeople are almost as bad to the women as male are.

Quote: thecesspit

Do you do the the thing with the four squares :

http://consumerist.com/2007/03/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it.html

How true is all that article?

Nope, we don't do it, but there are dealerships out there that do. I worked at a place that tried it, though, and it was pretty effective for about 6 months, then business tailed off. That was about '99 or so. 4 Square has fallen out of favor.

Before that it was APB Track Selling. There was something else in between, I don't remember. If you use a system like that, you either hired a trainer or stole it from someone who hired a trainer, which happens all the time. I learned the business in a track store.

Here, and most places I've worked, we stay straightforward. We don't hold the keys to the trade, we don't ask for hand money, all that hokum just feels like hokum.

Quote: AZDuffman

to take along a husband, boyfriend, brother, father, or male friend along.

Its the same with mechanics. My wife always got screwed
by mechanics fixing her car because she's clueless and
believes everything they tell her. Now she goes to my
mechanic and loves the guy to death. He never screws
anybody, will look at your car without charging a fee
and has reasonable prices on everything. My wife even
buys her tires from him, he changes her oil, everything.

Quote: AZDuffman

From what I have heard the biggest mistake salespeople make is not properly treating women that walk on the lot. One told me the sales rep took her for a "test-ride" and would not even let her drive. This was just a basic car and not some Corvette where you need to check insurance and such first. The rest of her treatment was so bad she left. Someone high up called to find out why she didn't buy and he offered her some top-salesperson and a load of appologies. But she was not the only story like this I heard.

I have heard so many I tell women to take along a husband, boyfriend, brother, father, or male friend along. The guy doesn't even need to say much, just be there. It is a sad state, and female salespeople are almost as bad to the women as male are.

Frankly, that's the kind of stuff salespeople get fired for. I won't say it never happens, but I've never seen it happen. I will say that everywhere I've worked, on the very first day of training, new sales people are told that everyone is a buyer, and they risk their paycheck by assuming otherwise. To succeed in this business you start by assuming that the person in front of you is here to buy a car. If it turns out otherwise, then it won't be because you screwed up at the very beginning.

The sales manager's job is to make sure that every customer gets treated like a buyer. If a woman gets blown out, that is lost income, and lost reputation. We can't afford either.

Same as the story about the guy with the raggedy clothes. Everyone gets told that story on the first day. I've never seen it happen, but I've sold lots of cars to guys in raggedy clothes.

Quote: Mosca

Nope, we don't do it, but there are dealerships out there that do. I worked at a place that tried it, though, and it was pretty effective for about 6 months, then business tailed off. That was about '99 or so. 4 Square has fallen out of favor.

Before that it was APB Track Selling. There was something else in between, I don't remember. If you use a system like that, you either hired a trainer or stole it from someone who hired a trainer, which happens all the time. I learned the business in a track store.

Here, and most places I've worked, we stay straightforward. We don't hold the keys to the trade, we don't ask for hand money, all that hokum just feels like hokum.

What's APB Track Selling? I'm just interested in the mechanics...

I assume then you are the one guy people negotiate with, and you know what minimum profit margin you need to make the deal worthwhile? (His junker is worth $2k at best, and the new car is worth $11k at worst, I need to show a profit of $1k at least so bet price with be $10k plus trade in, so price car at $12,500, and offer $1,500 for his old car?).

Or is that not how it works?

CarMax has a BMW z4 for 18k, I wouldnt mind buying that used it has 53,000 miles and the loan would be around 15,000, that might be a better option.

Am I the only sucker on this forum who has bought a new car this millenium? I am happy with my 4 wheel drive Subaru Legacy sedan when driving to work in snowy Buffalo at 3am for an emergency. I generally keep my cars 4 to 5 years, and recently have been giving them to whichever kid needs one. I vote for the Honda Civic for Nick.